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Proposal for new cloaking mechanics
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Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#1 - 2011-10-13 15:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
Since long time we have a discussion about AFK cloaking and the weaknesses of current cloaking mechanics. Therefore please let me try to propose a cloaking mechanics which might solve a few of the known problems (but maybe raise some new ones ;-)

DETECTION OF SHIPS:

I propose that we replace the current directional scanner by two types of omni-directional scanners:

Passive Scanner: Once triggered it will detect all ships which are "loud" enough without any indication for the other ships that it has been used. The range for which a ship can be detected depends on the target ship signature size. For example a 100m sig sized ship is detected up to 1 AU while a 400m sig szied ship is detected up to 4 AU.

This passive scanner can also detect cloaked ships, but only if they are on the grid and if they are not cloaked by gate jump! However it's range should be limited and depend also on cloaked ship signature. E.g. 100m signature means that maximal detection range is 25km.

However, the passive scanner gives you only the following information about a detected ship: it's ship class (frig/cruiser/BS/carrier) and the direction (not exact, with random error) from which the siginal is comming. When clicking on the target then the direction is shown in space as a line from your ship going into the direction of the target.

Finally, the passive scanner effectiveness heavily depends on how fast you are moving. If you are moving at 0m/s then it is 100% effective. If you are moving at 50% speed it is 50% effective (= reducing max range by 50% and raising the directional error so that it covers up to 180 degrees) and if you are moving at max speed or using AB/MWD then it stops working at all.

Active Scanner: Has a fixed max range of 20 AU and detects all ships in range which are not cloaked. If you use it everybody up to twice the max range will hear/see the ping. It should be possible to enable that the ping is visualized on the target ship by a line pointing form the direction the ping is comming from for a few seconds. The active scanner shows ship class and range and direction of the target ship.

CHANGES TO CLOAKING:

- Cloaked ships are removed from local.
- Ships with a cloak jumping through a gate can directly activate the cloak without uncloaking.
- Cloaked ships can not use Active Scanner.
- Cloaked ships can be detected by Passive Scanner if on grid of the scanner using ship, only aproximate direction towards the cloaked ship is indicated. So scanner using ship has to burn towards the cloaker to uncloak him. This should result in a funny hunting game, since while buring the scanner of the fast moving ship is not effective so he might need to stop, scan and align out again.

Okay, thats all, start throwing tomatoes at me ;-)
SuNnY l3oNe
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-10-13 15:12:07 UTC
Great ideas with cloak detection, however, I would propose a scan probe that fires an EMP pulse to nuietralize cloaks for a 15 sec period. The pulse should affect a 4 AU radius. These scan probes should only be able to use the EMP pulse after a 45 sec cooldown period. This would provide balance allowing the hunter to becomed the hunted without completely nullifying the cloaking option.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#3 - 2011-10-13 15:16:44 UTC
@SuNnY: So having three people using a probe properly will result that my ship is not cloaked the whole time? This will completely obsolete cloaking.
SuNnY l3oNe
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-13 15:23:51 UTC
Meditril wrote:
@SuNnY: So having three people using a probe properly will result that my ship is not cloaked the whole time? This will completely obsolete cloaking.


Sry not following completely what you are saying. My suggestion incorporates a specific probe that Emits a EMP pulse 4AU that nullifies cloaks for 15 secs. Before it emits another EMP pulse there is a 45 sec cooldown period. A skilled prober can locate a ship within a 4 AU radious in about 10-15 seconds. The EMP pulse that uncloaks the cloaker will give the pilot of that vessal fair warning of the impending inbound enemy allowing planty of time to allow the cloaker to vacte the area and move on. Furthermore, if they are AFK, they end up goin pop. AFK cloaking issue resolved. And Cloaking ships are still useful, just not in the oh well I'll stay logged in and cloaked for hours a day.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#5 - 2011-10-13 15:27:27 UTC
Yeah but this will make gate camp avoidance impossile you know. At the moment if you jump into a bubbled gate camp then you have a fair chance to survive with a cloak by cloaking up and sneaking out of the bubble. With your mechanics someone would just launch an EMP probe once I am cloaked inside the bubble and uncloak me. I am sure you don't want to make bubbled gate camps impossible to evate. Therefore your solution is to simple for the complicated problem.
SuNnY l3oNe
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-10-13 15:37:03 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Yeah but this will make gate camp avoidance impossile you know. At the moment if you jump into a bubbled gate camp then you have a fair chance to survive with a cloak by cloaking up and sneaking out of the bubble. With your mechanics someone would just launch an EMP probe once I am cloaked inside the bubble and uncloak me. I am sure you don't want to make bubbled gate camps impossible to evate. Therefore your solution is to simple for the complicated problem.


If I set up a bubble camp and some one jumps into a T2 bubble on a gate, generally there are usually bombers around it. that way when you momentarily uncloak to recloak and motor out of the bubble usually a bomber or two will launch a bomb in the general direction, resulting in a ship uncloaked, and more than likely popped. Also most bubble camps will have an interceptor or two, once the cloaker momentarily uncloaks then recloaks the interceptors rush where the cloaker is. Resulting in a tackled and dead cloaker. Yes it would add another tactic. Howerever, in order to launch the EMP probe, I would also suggest an advanced skill to utilize it. Something along the lines of a x8 skill that requires max scan skills.
Herold Oldtimer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-13 16:16:58 UTC
*Throws a tomatoe*

You're scanning detection I feel can use a bit more work. From what I gather players are concerned about lag and stuff like that, and having a scanner that constantly gives you updates, even on grid, can cause heavy lag since it constantly has to ask the server for information. I might be wrong on this but I like to think I'm not. :) (the biggest reason I'm not in favor of this kind of detection)

Your cloaking changes I like, but how about:

-Players do not show up on local after a gate jump before you move your ship.
-Cloaked ships can activate their cloak directly after a gate jump without uncloaking.
-Players with an active cloak will remain hidden from local untill the cloak deactivates. After the player will remain on local till he/she changes system.
-Ships with a cov ops role can warp while cloaked. (stealth bombers, stealth recon and black ops, other ships will decloak on warp).
-Cloaked ships can not use scanning, directional or probing, as it will interfere with their cloak systems. (exception is the stealth recon)

What you think?
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#8 - 2011-10-13 16:37:46 UTC
Any means to detect cloaked vessels is an unnecessary and damaging nerf to wormholes, period. Yeah... it's true... there's more to Eve than your little speck of empire null space. That being said, I'm still sticking to my initial proposal.

1. When you cloak your ship you're removed from local. No one in the system can see you in local.

2. When you cloak your ship, you lose the ability to use local. You can't see (via local) who's in the system. You can't chat in local. Any intel you gather will need to be actively gathered through the means at your disposal, such as DScan, probes or simply flying somewhere and pulling out the binoculars.

3. When you decloak, there's a delay in being able to light off a cyno. This prevents the abuse of hot-dropping on someone that had no idea you were in the system at all, giving them a potential chance to try to get away. Possible exception... no delay for Black Ops ships, this would be worth debating.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Skinae
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-13 17:38:50 UTC
Current cloaking mechanics are fine, the ONLY people that want them changed are null sec renters, that are too scared to do anything with a neut in system.

So, OP: why you so scared?

Bonafide Film House a Bozeman Video Production Company and Montana Wedding Video Company
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#10 - 2011-10-14 13:17:12 UTC
Bump.