These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Lvl 4 mission runner, Rokh or Navy megathron
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Treize Kushrenada
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-08-19 13:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Treize Kushrenada
Hey people, recently picked up EVE again and continued down the path of hybrid guns ( i know poor choice, but i just love em ) anyhow, I love gunboats, and am faced with a dilemma.

I just can't seem to choose between rokh or megathron for level 4 missions.
I've checked alot of posts, fits and ideas for both ships.

Plenty of people say the megathron works better, while others claim that the rokh is alot easier to fly lvl 4's with due to its range bonus.

Would love to hear recommendations and fits.
Or any kind of tips and hints really.
Just spare me the "Just fly a mach / dominix / whatever" comments cause i know there's better stuff out there than these 2 Battleships
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-08-19 14:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Wuxi Wuxilla
I'd fly the Rokh. It has the same gun-dps, better tank and much better range. It lacks the Megas 125m³ drone bay though.

The biggest problem with the Rokh in my opinion is, that it's a dead end. After Mega you still have Navy Mega, Vindi and Kronos to go for, which are all better than the Rokh

/edit: Gna, I can't read. Get the Navy Mega and never look back (Rokh still looks better though :P )

Quote:

[Megathron Navy Issue, PvE]
Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Garde II x5

Quote:

[Rokh, Rail Rhok]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Ancillary Current Router I
[empty rig slot]


Hammerhead II x5
Treize Kushrenada
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-08-19 14:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Treize Kushrenada
Ye that's what I had in mind too, Indeed the rokh looks so nice for a gunship. but since the megathron has 3 upgrades in its future...

Ye that's my bad for putting navy in description and not in the post

Thanks for the tip. I'll put it to good use :)
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#4 - 2012-08-19 17:06:51 UTC
Treize Kushrenada wrote:
Ye that's what I had in mind too, Indeed the rokh looks so nice for a gunship. but since the megathron has 3 upgrades in its future...


WTB Navy/Pirate/T2 ship with Rokh hull!

(Same for Maelstrom hull)
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#5 - 2012-08-19 19:19:48 UTC
I say Mega.

Sure, the Rokh's range is an advantage. But if the Mega needs more range, it can fight in (shallow) falloff or just load something other than antimatter/javelin, whereas the Rokh doesn't really have the option to use more damaging ammo if the rats come in close....

The Rokh is easier to tank, I guess? And probably easier to use with blasters, too.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-19 20:44:03 UTC
If only the Caldari Blaster Battleships didn't end with the Rokh... Roll

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#7 - 2012-08-20 06:04:59 UTC
Kasutra wrote:
The Rokh is easier to tank, I guess? And probably easier to use with blasters, too.


Depends. Blasters lack both in the range and in the tracking department, and unfortunately the Rokhs optimal bonus only helps slightly with the former (more when using T2 ammo), and it has no bonus to help with the latter. And it has no damage bonus at all.

It does have enough midslots to accomodate a few TCs, though.
Alayna Le'line
#8 - 2012-08-20 08:22:15 UTC
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
I'd fly the Rokh. It has the same gun-dps, better tank and much better range. It lacks the Megas 125m³ drone bay though.


It also lacks the Megathron's very nice tracking bonus.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#9 - 2012-08-20 09:23:48 UTC
the rokh is amazing. The inclusing of ASB let's it fit some insane PVP modules in its mids whiel using triple damage mods in the lows.

It used to use all its mids for a tank but now you can 2-slot-tank it and fit your flavour of ECCM/Damps/Disruptors/Enhancers.

Also a Navy mega attracts more attention than a rokh - more likely to get scanned for good mods and suicided. Plus shield tankers are better against explosive damage... which most gankers use due to minmatar arty having a high explosive component on the top damage ammo's
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-08-20 10:52:57 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
the rokh is amazing. The inclusing of ASB let's it fit some insane PVP modules in its mids whiel using triple damage mods in the lows.

It used to use all its mids for a tank but now you can 2-slot-tank it and fit your flavour of ECCM/Damps/Disruptors/Enhancers.


Which is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Quote:

Also a Navy mega attracts more attention than a rokh - more likely to get scanned for good mods and suicided. Plus shield tankers are better against explosive damage... which most gankers use due to minmatar arty having a high explosive component on the top damage ammo's


You will not get suicided unless you go complete ****** and officer fit everything. A normal fit Navy Mega uses ~600mil in faction Mods, which isn't nearly enough to suicide it.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#11 - 2012-08-20 11:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
425s track for crap, especially on a non-tracking bonused ship like the Rokh so if anything use 350s. The "real" answer actually is using a Hyperion, many people have this "lol hype" meme reply but that's mostly because they never really did the math, it 's nicely on par right up to the point where the Hype gets to use its web due 5th midslot. Have a look at this fit, enough tank. two tracking comps giving range and/or tracking, web to increase applied dps to short range targets.

[Hyperion, LVL 4 Rail]
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

100MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x3
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-08-20 12:01:03 UTC
Because using a ship that has less dps, less tracking, smaller drone bay, less range than the Navy Mega ist the real answer?
The Hyperion is worse in every way, besides the AB (which is useful maybe every 3123th mission and even then its not a clear answer, as running an AB easily wrecks your already bad tracking) und the Tank (which is more than enough on a Megathron).
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#13 - 2012-08-20 12:06:16 UTC
8 350s vs 7 425s is fairly on par dps wise and when shooting targets in orbit then 350s with their better tracking help against the Mega's tracking bonus (not completely ofcourse). The trick is that Serpentis&Angel rats tend to get really upclose, into faction web range, and that's where the Hype pulls ahead. Also if you get tracking issues due to running AB then you need to learn piloting, in fact using an AB can HELP your tracking issues by a lot, simply by using "keep at range".
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-20 12:25:17 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
8 350s vs 7 425s is fairly on par dps wise and when shooting targets in orbit then 350s with their better tracking help against the Mega's tracking bonus (not completely ofcourse). The trick is that Serpentis&Angel rats tend to get really upclose, into faction web range, and that's where the Hype pulls ahead. Also if you get tracking issues due to running AB then you need to learn piloting, in fact using an AB can HELP your tracking issues by a lot, simply by using "keep at range".


They are not on par dps-wise. We are talking about 15% difference in gun-dps alone between your Hype and my Navy Mega fit.
Add to that the superior drone bay of the Mega (316 drone dps vs 180) and you have some serious dps differences.

425mm with Tracking Bonus always track better than unbonussed 350mm. As both fits have 2 TCs, the Mega always pulls ahead on both tracking and range. Both ships have a Web, so that's a non-issue.

AB helps you tracking stuff when you manage to lower the transversal of the enemy ships. The Hype with t2 AB pulls 341m/s, which doesn't help it against stuff it has issues tracking, Cruisers and Frigs will still orbit you due to higher speed. A webbed BS with dual tracking scripts isn't going under your guns anyway.
On the other hand the AB lowers your tracking when travelling from gate to gate.

Even without this, the Mega could remove one TC for an AB, be faster, still have greater range and equal tracking.

The Mega also has a much bigger targetting range (75km vs 90km), which allows it to attack enemies in some missions while the Hype has to burn into range. This also helps against the heavy sensor dampening many Serpentis missions have.

There is literally no reason to ever use a Hyperion over a Navy Megathron in L4 missions. None at all.
Aaron Greil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-08-20 17:54:45 UTC
lol, the navy mega pilots have clearly never flown a hype.

the tracking difference between 425s and 350s eats up the tracking bonus the mega gets

I'm also not sure about this 316 vs. 180 drone dps difference. There is only 25 bandwidth difference between them, hype can use 4 heavies. Also, who uses ogres in missions besides afk domis anyway?

The hype picks up another gun AND has the same damage bonus as a mega; and has both superior (pve) tank and capacitor to the navy mega. Plus they're less than half the cost.

The navy mega shines as a pvp boat with the utility high and tracking for large blasters. With rails, however, there is no comparison.

They hype also has the grid to field blasters. If you have tech 2 large blasters (for null) the hype has one of the highest raw damage outputs of any mission ship, certainly of tech 1 battleships, without sacrificing tank.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-08-20 20:45:10 UTC
The Hyperion sure is a cool-looking ship though. Damn cool.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#17 - 2012-08-20 22:19:36 UTC
If you're using 350's on a hyperion, you're doing it wrong. Likewise with the 2 damage mods, and both ships need an afterburner to be most effective.

The hype can actually bring more dps to bear, but the navythron's ability to run without a cab booster, as well as use 5 sentries plus a DLA, plus its tracking bonus, make it a better choice for most missions IMO. That said, the hype's higher agility and burst tank make it a better ship for missions like damsel.

thhief ghabmoef
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-08-20 22:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Yabba Addict
The thing with the rokh is it's flexibility, it can realistically use blaster fits in pve whereas the mega&co have a harder time doing so effectively AFAIK. When i get merc or angel missions, blasters are pwn on the rokh. Damsel and such takes minutes, which is pretty good for a T1 hull. I think you'll find it'd be most useful in cadari space.
[Rokh, Gurista]
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Kinetic Deflection Field II

425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Hybrid Discharge Elutriation II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hornet II x5


[Rokh, Angel]
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
100MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Hybrid Discharge Elutriation II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warrior II x5
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-08-20 23:13:20 UTC
Aaron Greil wrote:
lol, the navy mega pilots have clearly never flown a hype.

the tracking difference between 425s and 350s eats up the tracking bonus the mega gets

I'm also not sure about this 316 vs. 180 drone dps difference. There is only 25 bandwidth difference between them, hype can use 4 heavies. Also, who uses ogres in missions besides afk domis anyway?

The hype picks up another gun AND has the same damage bonus as a mega; and has both superior (pve) tank and capacitor to the navy mega. Plus they're less than half the cost.

The navy mega shines as a pvp boat with the utility high and tracking for large blasters. With rails, however, there is no comparison.

They hype also has the grid to field blasters. If you have tech 2 large blasters (for null) the hype has one of the highest raw damage outputs of any mission ship, certainly of tech 1 battleships, without sacrificing tank.


No, the Mega with 425mm has better tracking. Period.
The Drone difference is because the Navy Mega has 175m³ drone bay, enough for a full flight of Heavies/Sentries + Light Drones. The Hyperion could use 4 Heavies/Sentries and would get real problems with any elite frig getting into orbit, so it needs 25m³ of its bay for a flight of light drones.

The Hype can't fit a full rack of 425mm + Cap Booster + Large Armor Rep without fitting mod. It also still has less gun dps than a Navy Mega, as the Mega has 2 additional lowslots. Tracking difference only gets larger though. Due to needing a fitting mod it can't fit 3 Magstabs with 425mm as a 3-slot tank + only 2 Nano Rigs would reduce the tank too much. 425mm with 2 Magstabs or 350mm + 3 Magstabs is still less gun dps than the Navy Mega. Counting in drones it is always less dps than the Mega, period.

The tank on the Mega is irrelevant. It can fit a sufficient tank + 4 Magstabs, no need for anything else. Capacitor on the Mega is better.

There is still literally no reason to use the Hyperion. The Mega has better Cap, more Sensor Strength, more Dps (Drones and Lows), is faster, uses less ammo, tanks enough, has more Targetting Range, better Tracking, less Signature Radius, more raw ehp against Suicide Gankers.
The only thing speaking for the Hyperion is the 5th mid, which is completely useless besides those few missions where you absolutely want a prop-mod. Even then the loss of 1 mid isn't going to make the Hyperion magically better than the Mega.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#20 - 2012-08-21 02:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
The Hype can't fit a full rack of 425mm + Cap Booster + Large Armor Rep without fitting mod.
*snip*
The only thing speaking for the Hyperion is the 5th mid, which is completely useless besides those few missions where you absolutely want a prop-mod. Even then the loss of 1 mid isn't going to make the Hyperion magically better than the Mega.


Like it or not, the hype can actually put out more dps than the navythron. It's only down two sentries, and has another gun...and yes, it CAN fit all of that while keeping 3 mag stabs.

Quote:
[Hyperion, Mission T2]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
100MN Afterburner II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I


Warden II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Hobgoblin II x3


And if you add just a touch of bling...faction repper/hardeners and a mag stab, you free up a rig slot.


The navythron puts out a touch less dps, but the advantages of it are pretty clear...much more so as you start to add faction modules to it. With perfect skills, the following fit projects 943dps out to 50km, and is still doing well over 700dps when the drones run out of control range at 84km. More importantly, it can perma run either the guns + repper or guns + AB (or AB + repper), and run everything together for 9 minutes. With thorium it's actually stable, though why you'd be using that I don't know. This gives a lot of freedom to move around the field and find an optimal position without having to micromanage your cap, which is a godsend on many missions.

Quote:

[Megathron Navy Issue, mission faction]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Federation Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Federation Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Republic Fleet Large Armor Repairer

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Warden II x5

thhief ghabmoef
12Next page