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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Getting Destroyed

Author
Michell Starstrider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-08-18 03:22:14 UTC
I've been doing Level 1 Missions in a Frigate for a while now. I ran out of mission in the zone I started in, and picked up a level 1 mission a couple jumps away. I get to the dead space, and about 10 ships converge on me at once. I barely kill them all, and with barely any health left get taken out by the last ship.

I had 2 Hybrid Turrets, 2 Launchers. Afterburner, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardener, Overdrive, Damage Control, and Shield Extender. I was switching and locking targets as quickly as I could, and taking them down as fast as I could. I also had my Drone out assisting me.

So what did I do wrong here? There's an astounding differences between the missions where I started and the other areas. This does not feel very new player friendly, I was not prepared at all for this type of punishment.
Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-08-18 04:05:06 UTC
cant tell you exactly what to fit without knowing what ship it is and yous skills.

however you NEVER want to run both shield and armor mods. pick armor for gallenete and amarr , sheild for caldari, and minmatar can go wither way really.

Sir Livingston
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-08-18 05:30:53 UTC
Michell Starstrider wrote:
I had 2 Hybrid Turrets, 2 Launchers. Afterburner, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardener, Overdrive, Damage Control, and Shield Extender. I was switching and locking targets as quickly as I could, and taking them down as fast as I could. I also had my Drone out assisting me.


From the module types you listed, it appears you were using a buffer tank fit (fit designed to take a limited amount of damage)

I highly recommend using an active tank fit for missions (fit designed to regenerate armor or shield hitpoints by the use of a shield booster or armor repair module)

Sci-fi games as played by an earthbound human in the 21st century http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew

Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-08-18 05:59:09 UTC
^^ that and if ur using rockets & blasters it may help to use missiles & rails to kite the room when the whole thing agros at once. Check the mission reports so you know what faction to buffer against. It sounds like you're using a tristan? You can fit armor and shield hardeners on that to just tank the crap out of lvl 1's.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-08-18 07:44:25 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
^^ that and if ur using rockets & blasters it may help to use missiles & rails to kite the room when the whole thing agros at once. Check the mission reports so you know what faction to buffer against. It sounds like you're using a tristan? You can fit armor and shield hardeners on that to just tank the crap out of lvl 1's.


Armor and shield tanking? Just NO. Pick one of them and stick with it.

As for OP:

Did you do the AURA tutorials
Did you do all 5 career agents?
Optional. Did you do the Sisters of EVE epic arc?

The first two will give you great teaching in what to expect / do. The third will give you some exp with missions (soe epic starts easy and gets harder in the end).

Lvl 1 missions should me manageable even for new player. It will help if you post your exact fit (ship + modules) here so we can see where the problem might me.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#6 - 2012-08-18 07:52:27 UTC
Zanzbar wrote:
cant tell you exactly what to fit without knowing what ship it is and yous skills.

however you NEVER want to run both shield and armor mods. pick armor for gallenete and amarr , sheild for caldari, and minmatar can go wither way really.



You can actually go shield with Gallente if you want, it's kind of like going Armor with Minmatar, though, your ship selection where that really works isn't really huge.

In the case of the tristan I'd say a basic active armor tank would work best (some resistance, a repairer). Probably don't have the capacitor to maintain active shield with it yet.

Also, always remember that you can warp out of a room and then come back in after repairing, you're not obligated in any way to stick with it to the end.
Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#7 - 2012-08-18 08:21:17 UTC
As above, you really should have just warped out once you realised you were going to start entering structure.
Michell Starstrider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-08-18 13:13:23 UTC
Sir Livingston wrote:
Michell Starstrider wrote:
I had 2 Hybrid Turrets, 2 Launchers. Afterburner, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardener, Overdrive, Damage Control, and Shield Extender. I was switching and locking targets as quickly as I could, and taking them down as fast as I could. I also had my Drone out assisting me.


From the module types you listed, it appears you were using a buffer tank fit (fit designed to take a limited amount of damage)

I highly recommend using an active tank fit for missions (fit designed to regenerate armor or shield hitpoints by the use of a shield booster or armor repair module)


Regarding the advice to use Active Tank modules, every time I've ever tried to use a small Armor Regain or Shield Regain on my ships (Frigate & Cruiser), my Capacitor Regain goes immediately into the Red during Fitting. This happens even on a ship with no other modules fitted yet. I really don't understand why it's so hard to fit such a basic/inexpensive module to a ship... I seriously lose about -10 in Regain per Sec the minute I fit on an empty ship. Capacitor Recharger modules haven't been able to fix the problem either.

http://postimage.org/image/e8q94s1dx/ (Screenshot of my Engineering Skills)

Thanks for the reply, sorry if I seem agitated... I feel like the tutorials has done nothing to prepare me for how to address these issues.
Michell Starstrider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-08-18 13:16:15 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
^^ that and if ur using rockets & blasters it may help to use missiles & rails to kite the room when the whole thing agros at once. Check the mission reports so you know what faction to buffer against. It sounds like you're using a tristan? You can fit armor and shield hardeners on that to just tank the crap out of lvl 1's.


Armor and shield tanking? Just NO. Pick one of them and stick with it.

As for OP:

Did you do the AURA tutorials
Did you do all 5 career agents?
Optional. Did you do the Sisters of EVE epic arc?

The first two will give you great teaching in what to expect / do. The third will give you some exp with missions (soe epic starts easy and gets harder in the end).

Lvl 1 missions should me manageable even for new player. It will help if you post your exact fit (ship + modules) here so we can see where the problem might me.


I ran ever tutorial that was available to me, I can't say how many or which ones I did... but I can tell you didn't decline anything in my journal that was Offered. At that point I started using Agent Finder to do Level 1 Missions, and the mission I'm speaking of is the first one I ran called Freedom and Commerce.
Michell Starstrider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-08-18 13:18:17 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
^^ that and if ur using rockets & blasters it may help to use missiles & rails to kite the room when the whole thing agros at once. Check the mission reports so you know what faction to buffer against. It sounds like you're using a tristan? You can fit armor and shield hardeners on that to just tank the crap out of lvl 1's.


See I don't understand this, because the specialty for all my ships seems to be Hybrid Turrets. Yet they have extremely short range, so I feel forced to get up close and person if I want to kill anything. So how am I supposed to kite?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#11 - 2012-08-18 13:20:52 UTC
Michell Starstrider wrote:
Sir Livingston wrote:
Michell Starstrider wrote:
I had 2 Hybrid Turrets, 2 Launchers. Afterburner, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardener, Overdrive, Damage Control, and Shield Extender. I was switching and locking targets as quickly as I could, and taking them down as fast as I could. I also had my Drone out assisting me.


From the module types you listed, it appears you were using a buffer tank fit (fit designed to take a limited amount of damage)

I highly recommend using an active tank fit for missions (fit designed to regenerate armor or shield hitpoints by the use of a shield booster or armor repair module)


Regarding the advice to use Active Tank modules, every time I've ever tried to use a small Armor Regain or Shield Regain on my ships (Frigate & Cruiser), my Capacitor Regain goes immediately into the Red during Fitting. This happens even on a ship with no other modules fitted yet. I really don't understand why it's so hard to fit such a basic/inexpensive module to a ship... I seriously lose about -10 in Regain per Sec the minute I fit on an empty ship. Capacitor Recharger modules haven't been able to fix the problem either.

http://postimage.org/image/e8q94s1dx/ (Screenshot of my Engineering Skills)

Thanks for the reply, sorry if I seem agitated... I feel like the tutorials has done nothing to prepare me for how to address these issues.



because the game assumes you're gonna be running it all the time. Pulse it as necessary to mitigate the incoming damage while conserving capacitor.

Also, train cap skills (energy management and energy systems operation, iirc) and the repair skills will generally reduce cap need of the modules. Also, Named or T2 will take less cap...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Michell Starstrider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-08-18 13:22:31 UTC
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Zanzbar wrote:
cant tell you exactly what to fit without knowing what ship it is and yous skills.

however you NEVER want to run both shield and armor mods. pick armor for gallenete and amarr , sheild for caldari, and minmatar can go wither way really.



You can actually go shield with Gallente if you want, it's kind of like going Armor with Minmatar, though, your ship selection where that really works isn't really huge.

In the case of the tristan I'd say a basic active armor tank would work best (some resistance, a repairer). Probably don't have the capacitor to maintain active shield with it yet.

Also, always remember that you can warp out of a room and then come back in after repairing, you're not obligated in any way to stick with it to the end.


Thanks for the advice, I'm definitely going to try using Armor Repair and Hardeners. But as I described above, any sort of Armor/Shield repair module seems to send my Cap Regain immediately into the Red, even on a ship with no fittings.

I was going to warp out but since the fight was so close I took a risk and suck with it. Can I expect to have to warp out of missions all the time to go repair? That doesn't seem very heroic if that's how I'm supposed to approach mission.
Michell Starstrider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-08-18 13:24:54 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Michell Starstrider wrote:
Sir Livingston wrote:
Michell Starstrider wrote:
I had 2 Hybrid Turrets, 2 Launchers. Afterburner, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardener, Overdrive, Damage Control, and Shield Extender. I was switching and locking targets as quickly as I could, and taking them down as fast as I could. I also had my Drone out assisting me.


From the module types you listed, it appears you were using a buffer tank fit (fit designed to take a limited amount of damage)

I highly recommend using an active tank fit for missions (fit designed to regenerate armor or shield hitpoints by the use of a shield booster or armor repair module)


Regarding the advice to use Active Tank modules, every time I've ever tried to use a small Armor Regain or Shield Regain on my ships (Frigate & Cruiser), my Capacitor Regain goes immediately into the Red during Fitting. This happens even on a ship with no other modules fitted yet. I really don't understand why it's so hard to fit such a basic/inexpensive module to a ship... I seriously lose about -10 in Regain per Sec the minute I fit on an empty ship. Capacitor Recharger modules haven't been able to fix the problem either.

http://postimage.org/image/e8q94s1dx/ (Screenshot of my Engineering Skills)

Thanks for the reply, sorry if I seem agitated... I feel like the tutorials has done nothing to prepare me for how to address these issues.



because the game assumes you're gonna be running it all the time. Pulse it as necessary to mitigate the incoming damage while conserving capacitor.

Also, train cap skills (energy management and energy systems operation, iirc) and the repair skills will generally reduce cap need of the modules. Also, Named or T2 will take less cap...


So I should completely disregard when my Capacitor Regain goes into the Red during Fitting? I will definitely try what you're saying, but the mechanic of the Fitting makes you feel like you should do something to not have your Regain in the Negative.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-18 13:39:56 UTC
Michell Starstrider wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Michell Starstrider wrote:
Sir Livingston wrote:
Michell Starstrider wrote:
I had 2 Hybrid Turrets, 2 Launchers. Afterburner, Cap Recharger, Armor Hardener, Overdrive, Damage Control, and Shield Extender. I was switching and locking targets as quickly as I could, and taking them down as fast as I could. I also had my Drone out assisting me.


From the module types you listed, it appears you were using a buffer tank fit (fit designed to take a limited amount of damage)

I highly recommend using an active tank fit for missions (fit designed to regenerate armor or shield hitpoints by the use of a shield booster or armor repair module)


Regarding the advice to use Active Tank modules, every time I've ever tried to use a small Armor Regain or Shield Regain on my ships (Frigate & Cruiser), my Capacitor Regain goes immediately into the Red during Fitting. This happens even on a ship with no other modules fitted yet. I really don't understand why it's so hard to fit such a basic/inexpensive module to a ship... I seriously lose about -10 in Regain per Sec the minute I fit on an empty ship. Capacitor Recharger modules haven't been able to fix the problem either.

http://postimage.org/image/e8q94s1dx/ (Screenshot of my Engineering Skills)

Thanks for the reply, sorry if I seem agitated... I feel like the tutorials has done nothing to prepare me for how to address these issues.



because the game assumes you're gonna be running it all the time. Pulse it as necessary to mitigate the incoming damage while conserving capacitor.

Also, train cap skills (energy management and energy systems operation, iirc) and the repair skills will generally reduce cap need of the modules. Also, Named or T2 will take less cap...


So I should completely disregard when my Capacitor Regain goes into the Red during Fitting? I will definitely try what you're saying, but the mechanic of the Fitting makes you feel like you should do something to not have your Regain in the Negative.


1) Even if your Capacitor Regen number goes red, pay attention to what the number actually is. That will tell you how much time you have with every module running. One trick you can use is while docked up, click on the module in the fitting screen; that will put the module offline, and adjust your cap numbers accordingly. (Don't forget to put the module back online afterwards!)

2) Use active modules only as needed; this will stretch your cap out longer. Armor repairers can be energy hogs, but they don't need to be permanently running.

3) For "kiting", try railguns in place of blasters. They give you better range, at the cost of less damage per shot and poorer tracking.

4) There's no shame in warping out if you're taking serious damage. The time limits for the missions are generous (usually several hours for the bonus payout, and several days for mission completion).

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#15 - 2012-08-18 13:53:07 UTC
from the way you are describing your fit the seems to be the problem firstly to get the damage out of your weapons you should use damage mods such as heatsinks for lasers, ballistic control for missles, magnetic stabilizers for hybrids (rails and blasters) and gyro stabilizers for projectile turrets, this multiplies you damage for all turrets you want to fit tracking mods as well, , either shield tank or armor tank depending on you ships strengths however since you seem to be going down the missioning path try caldari ships its easier for newer players to get a foot hold into missioning because turrets require lots of supporting skills, secondly you will lose ships from time to time, don't worry, you'll get used to that, lastly go to www.evesurvival.com and read about the rats you'll be facing and p.s. use the right ammo against the rats weakness.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-08-18 14:53:58 UTC
Michell Starstrider wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
^^ that and if ur using rockets & blasters it may help to use missiles & rails to kite the room when the whole thing agros at once. Check the mission reports so you know what faction to buffer against. It sounds like you're using a tristan? You can fit armor and shield hardeners on that to just tank the crap out of lvl 1's.


See I don't understand this, because the specialty for all my ships seems to be Hybrid Turrets. Yet they have extremely short range, so I feel forced to get up close and person if I want to kill anything. So how am I supposed to kite?


Both blasters and railguns are classed as hybrid weapons. So bonuses that count towards hybrids apply to both types.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Michell Starstrider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-08-18 15:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Michell Starstrider
I followed a lot of the suggestions and used Armor Repair and Armor Plates to Armor Tank. I'm very disappointed in Small Hybrid Turrets, by the time I've gotten close enough to a target for them to be effective... the enemy has already been shooting me up quit a bit. Considering Hybrid Turrets are the suggested Weapon type for all Gallente ships, that's pretty disheartening. The Missiles work long range, but the DPS isn't great against tougher targets.

I will say the Armor Repair module worked surprisingly well in combination with the Armor Plates, but I still had to go Repair at the station before killing the Boss. That does not feel very heroic, it actually feels very cheap and almost borderline cheating.

I appreciate people's suggestions, I am trying everything you guys are saying. My Hybrid Turrets and Missiles were totally ineffective against the Boss and took forever to kill him. All the while, he's tearing through my Shields in about 3 seconds and is still doing quite a bit of damage to my Armor. As I said, I had to actually go repair and come back to beat the damn guy.

Should I just forget about Hybrid Turret Blasters? They really don't seem to be very effective, even when you're right on top of your target the DPS feels dismal.
Michell Starstrider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-08-18 15:11:50 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Michell Starstrider wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
^^ that and if ur using rockets & blasters it may help to use missiles & rails to kite the room when the whole thing agros at once. Check the mission reports so you know what faction to buffer against. It sounds like you're using a tristan? You can fit armor and shield hardeners on that to just tank the crap out of lvl 1's.


See I don't understand this, because the specialty for all my ships seems to be Hybrid Turrets. Yet they have extremely short range, so I feel forced to get up close and person if I want to kill anything. So how am I supposed to kite?


Both blasters and railguns are classed as hybrid weapons. So bonuses that count towards hybrids apply to both types.


Did not realize that, I'll try throwing a Rail Gun in there and see how it goes.

Thanks!
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#19 - 2012-08-18 18:29:21 UTC
Stable cap is wasted cap, period.
As said above, try to pulse your modules, once you start popping the rats, the incoming DPS naturally lessens and you won´t need to perma-run your armor repairer. That said, all those skills concerning your capacitor should still be quite high on your training list. Cool

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Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-08-18 18:30:35 UTC
Michell Starstrider wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
^^ that and if ur using rockets & blasters it may help to use missiles & rails to kite the room when the whole thing agros at once. Check the mission reports so you know what faction to buffer against. It sounds like you're using a tristan? You can fit armor and shield hardeners on that to just tank the crap out of lvl 1's.


See I don't understand this, because the specialty for all my ships seems to be Hybrid Turrets. Yet they have extremely short range, so I feel forced to get up close and person if I want to kill anything. So how am I supposed to kite?


Rails are also hybrid...very long range and enough dps to handle L1's
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