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Alien Petition at whitehouse.gov
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Adunh Slavy
#21 - 2011-10-13 03:08:24 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:

And that Alien life would not be interested in wiping us out, no more than enlightened humans do not want to destroy life, regardless of whether it is another human, or a fish in the sea?


I am reminded of the movie Contact so must ask, just how guilty or concerned are enlightened humans, scientists perhaps, concerned about wiping out a test tube full of microbes, or spraying a half of can of bug spray down a hole to kill some pests that are eating your rhododendrons?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
stoicfaux
#22 - 2011-10-13 04:04:59 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:

And that Alien life would not be interested in wiping us out, no more than enlightened humans do not want to destroy life, regardless of whether it is another human, or a fish in the sea?


Uhm, the most logical course of action when meeting a pre-space flight society is to destroy that society. Your species doesn't have to worry about them developing into something that can destroy you down the road.


Quote:
And srsly, Aliens would not land in a public place - for the same reason that if we could fly to other planets that support life, we would go on scientific studies and maybe take a few specimens - we certainly wouldn't stand out in public and we certainly wouldn't just go and blow them up and cause planet-wide Armageddon.


That depends on how ubiquitous interstellar travel is. Analogy: Ever seen US rednecks on vacation in Europe before?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tattva Paalaka
Appono Astos
#23 - 2011-10-13 04:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tattva Paalaka
stoicfaux wrote:
Uhm, the most logical course of action when meeting a pre-space flight society is to destroy that society. Your species doesn't have to worry about them developing into something that can destroy you down the road.


Why would anyone feel the need to destroy anyone with the limitless resources that come with space travel?

You're only able to understand things from your own perspective, living on this single planet, with limited resources, and an overdeveloped desire to consume. It would in fact be a waste of a races resources and time to bother with conquering a planet, when they can just move onto the next solar system, or even galaxy, and find resources that are more easily acquired in quantities enough to last millennia.

Alien life as it passes by probably see us a bunch of primitives fighting over what to them is essentially worthless. Be careful not to anthropomorphize them.

More on topic, i don't believe you will ever get the truth from the US government about alien life. If you get anything, it will be lies meant to further their own agendas, so petitions like this are useless.
LtCom Ryback
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2011-10-13 09:22:43 UTC
@Kalmanaka
if canibals are eating with fork and knife, you cant realy talk about development. 100.000 years have past, we developed our weapons, but are still as barbaric as in the beginning.

ETs as i know them, are not only technologically advanced than us, they are spiritualy more advanced then us. But to be spiritualy advanced then this mankind is very easy.


best analogy i have ever heard from AlleyKat.
Aliens posses sumthing that has become very abstract to us, is called charity. Why are they interested in us? charity. Such reasoning is hard to understand for most of us humans. is easier to teach a noob all about eve-online in only 15 minutes then to teach sumone from this planet what charity is. simply said, is a feeling not a word. a stone cant swim in water.


Ufology is not about me. i am just sumone who is presenting that issue to you. So if i smoke weed or if i am a doctor has nothing to do with ufology. When it comes to Aliens, you have to totaly change your point of view, be very open minded. its a paradigm change, not an easy task for the human mind.


inofficialy disclosure is already happening. is a bit of what you can find in the puplic domain.

#thousands of witnesses worldwide have come forward telling their story
disclousre project has arround 500 testemonies from generals, govenors and so on. if only 1 of them is telling the truth, it changes everything.

# many goverments are releasing the real "x-files"
http://www.disclosureproject.org/countries-releasing-ufo-files.shtml

# Canadian defense minister Paul Hellyer
"Decades ago, visitors from other planets warned us about where we were headed and offered to help. But instead we, or at least some of us, interpreted their visits as a threat, and decided to shoot first and ask questions after," he told the conference.

#SIGMA/3AF report
6 Coclusion
.......
We asked what would be the possible consequences for the conceptions of humanity if the disclosure of a
foreign presence to Earth were to be confirmed. This topic has not attracted our attention for a long time since
we have neither the vocation nor the obligation to make public the results of our research.
In addition, our opinion on the whole subject that we are studying, if it became known, could not be considered
an official statement.
During our investigations we have met several people who reached, through the study of documents and books,
the same conclusions than us. This fact has not at all surprised us. The amount of open information on the
subject that interests us is such that anyone who is patient and can read English – or has the translation of the
most important documents – should be able to draw a personal conclusions very similar to ours.
.........
http://www.openminds.tv/wp-content/uploads/Progress-Rep-Commission-Sigma-3AF-English.pdf

#why dont they show up?
"discretion is motivated by the respect of the human free will that people can exercise to manage their own affairs so that they can reach technical and spiritual maturity on their own.
Humankind's entrance into the family of galactic civilizations is greatly expected. "
Quote from a text called "DO YOU WANT US TO SHOW UP?" ( from a philosophical point of view, good to watch )

The famous Cometa Report
http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA_part1.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA_part2.pdf

General Bruno Lemoine, of the Air Force (FA of IHEDN)
Admiral Marc Merlo, (FA of IHEDN)
Michel Algrin, Doctor in Political Sciences, attorney at law (FA of IHEDN)
General Pierre Bescond, engineer for armaments (FA of IHEDN)
Denis Blancher, Chief National Police superintendent at the Ministry of the Interior
Christian Marchal, chief engineer of the national Corps des Mines and Research Director at the National Office of Aeronautical Research (ONERA)
General Alain Orszag, Ph.D. in physics, armaments engineer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMshPOdAJKU&feature=feedwll&list=WL
Adunh Slavy
#25 - 2011-10-13 09:49:06 UTC
Tattva Paalaka wrote:

You're only able to understand things from your own perspective, living on this single planet, with limited resources, and an overdeveloped desire to consume. It would in fact be a waste of a races resources and time to bother with conquering a planet, when they can just move onto the next solar system, or even galaxy, and find resources that are more easily acquired in quantities enough to last millennia.


That sounds nice, but perhaps they have a political system that encourages war so that weapons makers make a profit. Perhaps they are from the planet Keynesian Five. Intelligence does not equate to wisdom and morality.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Amaranthia Lamarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2011-10-13 10:14:05 UTC
Why contact with Extraterrestian Intelligence is unlikely:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#27 - 2011-10-13 11:02:38 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:

And that Alien life would not be interested in wiping us out, no more than enlightened humans do not want to destroy life, regardless of whether it is another human, or a fish in the sea?


I am reminded of the movie Contact so must ask, just how guilty or concerned are enlightened humans, scientists perhaps, concerned about wiping out a test tube full of microbes, or spraying a half of can of bug spray down a hole to kill some pests that are eating your rhododendrons?



Reduction to the ridiculous to argue a point is the lowest form of logical reasoning.

Try harder.

This space for rent.
Astenion
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-10-13 11:38:15 UTC
Yes, let's not engage the White House in investigating why there is so much class warfare and social inequality in our country, but rather let's press them into divulging what we KNOW to be the existence of extraterrestrial life because we saw it in a movie or documentary once.

It's not like we have anything better to do...or THEY for that matter.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#29 - 2011-10-13 12:33:16 UTC
Do other planets have oil?

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
LtCom Ryback
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2011-10-13 12:49:05 UTC
Amaranthia Lamarr wrote:
Why contact with Extraterrestian Intelligence is unlikely:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox



what was a sientific fact one day, turn out to be a hoax later
best example is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

There are liars, hoaxers all over the cominuty.



maybe is real, maybe not. judge for yourselfs.

UFO Fleet Guadalajara Mexico ( MAss sightning )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKzzsM-__sg&feature=related

UFO's buzz Washington, D.C. on July 12th, 1952
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc8lhmjzkSo

UFO Mothership ejecting fleet of spheres ( MAss sightning )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKN5pGY174

UFO landing Holloman Air Force Base? These people say Yes & there is video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3g_D96_nbY&feature=related

President Eisenhower Meeting in alien spacecraft 5/6
Holloman Air Force Base 1955 - Eisenhower was in a meeting inside a saucer UFO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DRCZGjh8Dc&feature=related

Mexican Government Admits Aliens are Real
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKdvBidbwnQ&feature=related
LtCom Ryback
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2011-10-13 12:54:23 UTC
Astenion wrote:
Yes, let's not engage the White House in investigating why there is so much class warfare and social inequality in our country, but rather let's press them into divulging what we KNOW to be the existence of extraterrestrial life because we saw it in a movie or documentary once.

It's not like we have anything better to do...or THEY for that matter.



Let me quote myself from 1st post.

Some may think, that Ufology is unimportant. Plan is not to talk about fengshui or ufology to refugees at a camp in pakistan.

From my point of view, there are only a few things that can help us now. One of them is the ETs. I belive noone whos is promising me a solution for the problems that are coming towards us in the future.
Adunh Slavy
#32 - 2011-10-13 13:09:13 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:

And that Alien life would not be interested in wiping us out, no more than enlightened humans do not want to destroy life, regardless of whether it is another human, or a fish in the sea?


I am reminded of the movie Contact so must ask, just how guilty or concerned are enlightened humans, scientists perhaps, concerned about wiping out a test tube full of microbes, or spraying a half of can of bug spray down a hole to kill some pests that are eating your rhododendrons?



Reduction to the ridiculous to argue a point is the lowest form of logical reasoning.

Try harder.



First you need to backup your authority as the arbiter of what is or is not ridiculous.

Ego harder

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
stoicfaux
#33 - 2011-10-13 14:47:27 UTC
Tattva Paalaka wrote:


Why would anyone feel the need to destroy anyone with the limitless resources that come with space travel?

You're only able to understand things from your own perspective, living on this single planet, with limited resources, and an overdeveloped desire to consume. It would in fact be a waste of a races resources and time to bother with conquering a planet, when they can just move onto the next solar system, or even galaxy, and find resources that are more easily acquired in quantities enough to last millennia.

Alien life as it passes by probably see us a bunch of primitives fighting over what to them is essentially worthless. Be careful not to anthropomorphize them.



You said it yourself. Any race that had to crawl its way out of a gravity well probably spent a long time living on one planet with resource constraints. Ergo, you can't rule out that "enlightenment" has counter-acted millions of years of evolution of living with and fighting over limited resources.

Also, what if the aliens have Religion? Specifically one about purity and manifest destiny?

Having practical interstellar travel is no guarantee of "enlightenment." For all you know, a barbaric, tyrannical, conquering race buys their spaceships from the "enlightened" species.

And if you were "enlightened" aliens, how would you react to Humanity suddenly developing interstellar travel in the next 50 years? Do you really think a enlightened, single government Earth will travel the stars? Or will the US, Europe, and China have their own interstellar travel plans and will wind up fighting over nearby resources and colonies?

Finally, there's the problem of habitable worlds. There may be billions of planets in our galaxy, but how many can support your species and are close enough to the homeworlds for practical colonization? For all we know, aliens may think Earth would make a fabulous summer home.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-10-13 15:17:10 UTC
1. - Yes we would like a government to admit that aliens from another planet have been flying around around and there is nothing they can do about it.
2. - If aliens were flying around earth and not talking to us, then they don't want too, so why should (see one) admit it.
3. - UFO can be anything from there very definition to include another nations aircraft. (once again see one)

Bottom line not going to happen.
IF aliens ever actually do visit Earth, believe me you will know it, and nothing the government can say will change that.




EVERYBODY KNOWS
Tattva Paalaka
Appono Astos
#35 - 2011-10-13 18:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tattva Paalaka
Adunh Slavy wrote:
That sounds nice, but perhaps they have a political system that encourages war so that weapons makers make a profit. Perhaps they are from the planet Keynesian Five. Intelligence does not equate to wisdom and morality.


stoicfaux wrote:
Any race that had to crawl its way out of a gravity well probably spent a long time living on one planet with resource constraints. Ergo, you can't rule out that "enlightenment" has counter-acted millions of years of evolution of living with and fighting over limited resources.

Also, what if the aliens have Religion? Specifically one about purity and manifest destiny?


All of that is more anthropomorphism. The odds of an alien race having anything in common with us at all is extremely unlikely.

I imagine conflict would still be present among all living things in primitive stages, but much like children grow out of their tantrums and selfishness (hopefully) races would also mature beyond those things. If they cannot, they are unlikely to survive long enough to become advanced enough for space travel before wiping themselves out. Note: i am not talking about taking a trip to low earth orbit and back, like we have done so far, i am speaking of interstellar travel, something which we still deem impossible, similar to how our ancestors thought tons of steel could never fly.

Quote:
Having practical interstellar travel is no guarantee of "enlightenment." For all you know, a barbaric, tyrannical, conquering race buys their spaceships from the "enlightened" species.


I don't think currency as we know it could exist along with limitless resources, but even if it did, i doubt "enlightened" races would be selling things like street peddlers. There does exist a chance a violent and primitive race might steal advanced technology, but without the proper intelligence they would either kill themselves with it, or simply never be able to reverse engineer it. If a primitive tribe discovered a high performance racing motorcycle, would that mean they'd all be riding them around in a few years?

Quote:
Finally, there's the problem of habitable worlds. There may be billions of planets in our galaxy, but how many can support your species and are close enough to the homeworlds for practical colonization? For all we know, aliens may think Earth would make a fabulous summer home.


More anthropomorphism. Planets don't have to be exactly like ours to support intelligent life, and Frank Drake, the creator of the Drake equation, has modified his equation in order to take that in to account using recent discoveries. Planets much further or closer to a sun could maintain a moderate temperature due to different atmospheric conditions either trapping heat more effectively or releasing it. There is also a chance life can exist inside planets far away from any sun, being warmed by the planets core, with oxygen/carbon dioxide being produced by plants like fungus which require no light. Assuming they breathe either of those things in the first place or require the same temperatures as us to exist. If you want to say the presence of water is required for life, something which was said for many years, then that's practically everywhere we've looked. It's entirely possible space is rife with life, and they just don't have any reason to talk to us. We think we're so important, and that itself might be a reason the existence of alien life is kept secret. The knowledge that not only are we not alone, but we are also unimportant and rather pathetic would be a massive blow to the human psyche.
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-10-13 19:56:40 UTC
Sentinental wrote:
Taedrin wrote:
If the US government is somehow covering up some sort of UFO discovery, they are OBVIOUSLY doing a MUCH better job at it than they are at actually running the country.


well inofficial cover up is already over.

the discolsure project has arround 500 millitäry witnesses who come forward and made their puplic statements about the ufo stuff they witnessed. among them are high ranking people and they have a lot to lose. sum of them for example had the responability for atomic bombs. In other words, their credability is very high.

25 world wide nations officialy running ufo projects and recently had their ufo x files released into the puplic domain. among them france, england, canada ...

this is all very well documented and availibil to the puplic domain. It is all linked back to the United Nations General Assembly Decision 33/426 (1978)..... Establishment of an agency or a department of the United Nations for undertaking, co-ordinating and disseminating the results of research into unidentified flying objects and related phenomena...

2. the General Assembly invites interested Member States to take appropriate steps to coordinate on a national level scientific research and investigation into extraterrestrial life, including unidentified flying objects, and to inform the Secretary-General of the observations, research and evaluation of such activities.

ufo cover up is long over. history teches us, the truth is gonna *** out, soonish or later. And show me any goverment, expect island in this sector of the solarsystem which is doing a good jub. we hate the sin but love the sinners, i hate politics but love the people of every country.

Dont forget what Steve Jobs said about the crazy ones....




Several billion people in the world still belive in religion. You know, make belive magic space daddy and whatever else crazy stuff like Allah, Shiva, Jesus and Xenu. And these same people got responsibility for atomic bombs as well.

In other words, your assumptions about "trustworthyness" of these people is quite silly.

There is most likly some other kind of life in the universe somewhere, but there is not aliens on Earth. And the only thing the US government is good at is ******* over people. Besides, what "intelligent" specis would want to deal with US, or any other nation on Earth anyways? :P
Adunh Slavy
#37 - 2011-10-14 11:05:43 UTC
Tattva Paalaka wrote:

All of that is more anthropomorphism. The odds of an alien race having anything in common with us at all is extremely unlikely.


So is the assumption they will be "enlightened" in any sense that we recognize and/or have some sense of morality to which we can relate.

Perhaps they live 900 million years as their average life span, and feel sorry for us living in the blink of any eye. So, they feel they do us a favor by blowing us up now instead of watching us poor little things have to suffer on our little rock.

Maybe they just happened to have stumbled on space travel by some accident of science, as we know happens, and perhaps they will see us and consider us gods.

We have no idea, we are human, it is our base of reference, it is all going to be anthropomorphic after a fashion.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2011-10-14 13:15:50 UTC
clearly the sceptical comments on this issue are due to infiltration of these forums by the NSA and the men in black.

Offcourse they would have fully, credible fleshed out characters ready to demolish the true believers. That's the sort of thing they are pepared for, especially on an online forum regarding spaceships.

OP walked right into their trap...

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
BLACK-STAR
#39 - 2011-10-14 13:48:59 UTC
Nail half of those videos are balloons.

Nobody needs to be ignorant though, I've seen a couple phenomenon and had it confirmed by another. I think people should be open minded. They're just as rare as seeing a shooting star in an urban city.

If ET does show up there is nothing in our arsenal that can stop him or save anyone. Respect, and do not make us all look like crazy morons that kill each other on a daily basis. They also do not need permission from America to land or say hello, humanity authority not recognized.


Also it is too much work for a planetary genocide. They would simply get our own star to kill us, It's the most sufficient planet killer.
Tattva Paalaka
Appono Astos
#40 - 2011-10-14 17:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tattva Paalaka
Adunh Slavy wrote:
So is the assumption they will be "enlightened" in any sense that we recognize and/or have some sense of morality to which we can relate.


I'm not the one who started using that word. Your problems may lie with someone else.

All i've said which could be misconstrued as morality is that a race which is obsessed with war, and killing each other over things, will probably end up extincting themselves before they ever leave the planet.
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