Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Paints cannot be "balanced" because it's offensive as opposed to defensive. How can all Ewar be equal if some are purely offesnive, others are purely defensive, and yet others exist only to dictate the terms of the engagement? In order to be equal they must share something measurable in common. They don't.

I believe that ECM is "working as designed" in so far as they were never meant to be equal. Turning off a random high slot would immediately make most ECM boats flying scrapheaps. Mosty because you either fit a tank or fit ECM, not both. Amarr and Gallente ships (with disruptors and damps respectively) can fit a tank with their ewar, and the minmatar target painter ship tanks with speed and an ACS. The Caldari versions can not replicate that effectively.

I would rather see hybredized modules that provide both ECCM and some kind of gunnery or sensor boost, albet at reduced rates. I think that the only thing you need to do to "fix" this non-problem is to allow more flexibility with fittings. Most of the time people don't fit ECCM because it's rarely useful, but something that allows people to hedge their bets better would resolve a great deal of this.

^ what he said

That is nerfing it to the point of uselessness though...

As A Soporific said,


The main purpose of ECM isn't a "get out of jail free card", it's a form of tanking. It's simple really, you are choosing between being able to soak up a lot of damage, or if you can't do that, stop them from shooting. Both work essentially the same way, you are just going about it in different ways.

Don't get me wrong, I love ECM and I will be the first to admit it is super overpowered, however changing it's design isn't the way to go. It's working as it has always intended to work, EVE players just found a use for them that wasn't originally intended (i.e super abusing it for perma-jam).

I think the simplest and most effective "fix" to ECM would be minor changes to the strength of the modules. It would take some time and effort, but eventually CCP could find a nice place where ECM ships are no longer super OP, but are still viable to fly.

A lot of you are ignoring the current EC drone spam, assuming that Im only talking about ECM mods, which would ruin ECM ships. While I disgaree that it would ruin ECM ships, I also want you all to keep in mind how each little hornet ec has its own jam chance and one obnoxious little drone has the ability to comepletely break the lock of a target dependent ona dice roll. All other Ewar drones are usless, especially when moving to the lights. They just plain suck at their given ewar, where as each little hornet on a target has its own random chance to render a ship usless for a jam cycle.

And as far as "tanking" by jamming a target, this is still entirely possible, as the hislot modules (guns, neuts, etc) are all disabled on the ship being jammed. With mids still working, ECM boats can focus on jamming the damage dealing ships as opposed to each other, shaking up the fight.

Im sure the players that utilize the safety net of ECM (mods and drones) hate this idea, but I feel its the only way to bring the ECM form of ewar in line with the others.

I'm going to have to echo Lous' sentiment. Thew way ahead isn't taking away stuff, but giving us more valid options.

Sure, no matter how many valid methods are available only the very best will be utilized most often. But removing the most effective things doesn't add anything to the game. It merely leaves us with less to work with.

I believe that other ewar drones need ship bonuses to become more competitive. I don't think I've ever seen web drones in use, and I would think that they would be incredibly useful. So, maybe something new along those lines.


As far as tanking with your idea, it really wouldn't help as much. Half a Tornado (assuming that the ECM actually works) will still obliterate any ECM cruiser you care to name. Instead of having an ECM ship, you would see the ECM relegated to a "utility" mid-slot module. One you fit AFTER you have a tank, because the ECM fit will no longer be able to keep a Kitsune or Recon Cruiser alive against a tech 2 adversary.

It may be me misunderstanding the OP or other posters but is he not suggesting that ECM disable ALL high slot modules not just a portion of random modules. The main objective of ECM is to prevent weapons fire and break RR and this change still achieves this.

The problem with ECM is not it’s “to hit” chance as racial jammers on bonused hulls work well while not as well on non bonused hulls. The issue is that when a ship is jammed there is very little action it can take and you essentially stop playing the game.

This change allows the jammed ship still to the keep them locked so they can start firing immediately the jam fails, see health of the jammer, use drones or their own e-war against them.

It would also mean ECM drones continue to operate in the role of disabling combat abilities and RR without being the last resort escape mechanism.

Apart from perhaps target painting E-war does not need a boost.

YES. I mean ALL hislots. Even salvagers/tractor beams if you want, command boosts, etc.

If it is deemed more balanced, I figure make it so the "jam" works 100% of the time, but might only drag some of the mods down. Like a multispec has (at max skill) 5 slots worth of jam, where as the racial equiv can lock out 8. And light drones (with all 5 on a target) can lock out 1 (bonuses maybe to 2).

I don't see how all EWAR could possibly be buffed "in line" with ECM as ECM is the only one that has the ability to completely cripple a target (and as Alticus says) make it so the only thing you can do is sit there and die.

Damps can break your lock (on distant targets) and slow down locktime, but you can still target close things and do SOMETHING.
Tracking disruptors only screw guns, but Neuts can be pretty devastating, but can be all but nullified with cap boosters (to, at the very least, maintain tackle)
CCP says "something" is being done with putting painters on more missile-oriented Minmatar ships, as part of their Tiericide program, so we'll have to see what that is.
Webs and scrams have their use and they work well as they are.
But ECM is still a get-out-of-jail free card.