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The new Mackinkaw, new king miner, better than a hauler, all in one, afk mining machine.

Author
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#321 - 2012-08-16 19:15:45 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Unless you're using that industrial ship to haul ore from the belt, which is more its primary use.
Its primary use is to haul stuff all over the place. It does that far better than the Mack can ever wish for.

The one minor use-case of hauling ore from a belt to a station is still there for group mining efforts for much the same reason: because an industrial can be made to haul more and can be far more flexible in terms of what it carries (eg. all those mining crystals that Hulk users have been whinging about). All the Mack does is allow you to stay in the belt for longer before returning to station, and in that scenario, no hauler is involved to begin with so nothing has been replaced. If you intend never to leave the belt to begin with, then you still need that indy since it does the job far better.

Claiming that the every-day haulers is losing its role as an every-day hauler to a ship that cannot actually haul stuff is downright silly.

As a point of comparison, a Mack can bring just over 1M units of trit to the market; a mega-haul Itty V can bring nearly 4M… or 86M units if you employ a bit of compression.


For belt hauling, the mackinkaw beats primary haulers at their own role. Forget the rest, i'm talking about belt hauling. There's no need to use a hauler anymore, infact even if you're mining in a team, you're better of mining with all mackinkaws, a hauler is not going to increase your yield, infact it will decrease, you're better off with all mackinkaws and no hauler. It's far easier, and you get more ore.

The imbalance here is plain as day, no mining ship should be able to haul ore as well as or better than an actual dedicated hauler does. If you really want a dedicated hauler anyway, just use another Mackinkaw, it can mine between hauling sessions. If you're going to do that though you may aswell just use each miner as its own hauler anyway. God, this is so dumb.


I replaced my haulers with an Orca a long time ago. I use haulers to haul "stuff" not ore and certainly not minerals. So I dont really see the problem here.
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#322 - 2012-08-16 19:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Boom
Idris Helion wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Lame and somewhat inacurrate title. The Mack actually does not mine as fast for ice as it used to. The Hulk still out performs the mack based on yield. The size of the Mack ore hold makes it nice for solo mining; it's not invinicible the tank is still within reach of many ganks.. and what's more, miners still don't tank like survival is job one....

I find the Mack nice.. but not royal.


Yup. Pretty soon the gankers are going to come up with a loadout that kills paper-tanked Macks the way they used to take out paper-tanked Hulks, and that'll be the end of the love-affair with the Mack for a lot of people.

More tank, less gank, kids.


There's no such loadout, only teams of 4 max dps catas. You can't improve the loadout, you can only increase the number of gankers it requires to counter the HP, which is 4 max dps catas vs a decent mack tank.
Arkturus McFadden
Anukar
#323 - 2012-08-16 19:17:28 UTC
You can still suicide gank it.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#324 - 2012-08-16 19:40:24 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Best thing is that you dock your full mack in the orca that is also full to carry even more ore



Good job Chribba some DEV saw your post & nerfed this ability in today's patch P
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#325 - 2012-08-16 21:54:44 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I don't see any trade off in a BC meant to blow stuff and die fast. The trade offs (low tank, low tracking) are irrelevant, since concord is not tankable anyway and the targets have massive signatures.

Hulks on the other side have meaningful game play affecting trade offs.


I'll put this as nicely as I can - you seem to be arguing from a strictly hi-sec perspective, and a subset of hi-sec at that.

Tracking and tank are absolutely a huge tradeoff for tier 3 BCs. For a large, well organised 0.0 mining op, mined m^3/hr is all that counts.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#326 - 2012-08-16 22:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Malcanis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I don't see any trade off in a BC meant to blow stuff and die fast. The trade offs (low tank, low tracking) are irrelevant, since concord is not tankable anyway and the targets have massive signatures.

Hulks on the other side have meaningful game play affecting trade offs.


I'll put this as nicely as I can - you seem to be arguing from a strictly hi-sec perspective, and a subset of hi-sec at that.

Tracking and tank are absolutely a huge tradeoff for tier 3 BCs. For a large, well organised 0.0 mining op, mined m^3/hr is all that counts.


Should I argue from a perspective where a certain mechanic works?

It should work everywhere unless there's a specific design note stating where it should not. So I argue off perspectives where the mechanic works worse than in other contexts.
Ubiquitous Newt
The F-Bombers
#327 - 2012-08-23 08:48:15 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:

More tank, less gank, kids.


Don't bet on it. Unless you're getting ganked 4+ times a week, you'll still mine up a profit. *While* AFK.

I'll tell you something, I may not be an expert on 1337 PvP or nullsec politics, but I *am* an expert on lazy, mining, and soloing in Eve... The Hulk just got severely demoted. Nullsec mining? ....who the hell nullsec mines, have you seen the price of tritanium lately?

Yawanna know how popular the new hulk stats are? Look at the price moves between the hulk and the Mack in the last 30 days. The Hulk is down like 25%, and the Mack is up by at least that much. The hold-fill time is the deciding factor; move ore like a bored squirrel every 3 minutes, or once every 15+? Uh...duh?
Pasta OfDoom
SrsBsnsIndeed
#328 - 2012-08-24 17:45:17 UTC
I don't understand why people are angry at mining becoming easier. It just means more carebears will mine and the price for minerals will go down.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#329 - 2012-08-24 18:22:22 UTC
Pasta OfDoom wrote:
I don't understand why people are angry at mining becoming easier. It just means more carebears will mine and the price for minerals will go down.

I think what they really angry at is the risk vs. reward is off. This is of course dependent on several factors and mostly ones own point of view.

Nerf them, buff me! Is the most common point of view.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#330 - 2012-08-24 19:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ubiquitous Newt wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:

More tank, less gank, kids.


Don't bet on it. Unless you're getting ganked 4+ times a week, you'll still mine up a profit. *While* AFK.

I'll tell you something, I may not be an expert on 1337 PvP or nullsec politics, but I *am* an expert on lazy, mining, and soloing in Eve... The Hulk just got severely demoted. Nullsec mining? ....who the hell nullsec mines, have you seen the price of tritanium lately?

Yawanna know how popular the new hulk stats are? Look at the price moves between the hulk and the Mack in the last 30 days. The Hulk is down like 25%, and the Mack is up by at least that much. The hold-fill time is the deciding factor; move ore like a bored squirrel every 3 minutes, or once every 15+? Uh...duh?

It all depends on whether you want to make the most money for the time invested.

Again, if Hulk popularity has decreased and Mac popularity has increased, things are working as intended.

By the way, where do you think those large orders of high end minerals come from anyway... the Ore Fairy?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

veritas primus
Kat 5 Kaos
#331 - 2012-08-24 19:37:59 UTC
Each barge has its place/role.

I still mine in my Hulk with Occator hauler alt.....in ice belts I use my Skiff and Occator.

Mack is still built like a wet paper sack.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#332 - 2012-08-24 20:46:03 UTC
If you don't like them or the changes, you can always not use one, or go back to WOW if EVE just doesn't force you to run around the cluster site-seeing while you collect something to a scripted quest or whatever that game *cough* has in it.

Look, EVE is what people decide it is, your point of case is you don't like seeing this big change to the mack apparently, well that is the ship most people find the most useful, just like any other classification of ship people find the one that works the best and then use it, if it works well most people use it... that is just the way it is, most people found the ore bay the biggest plus in the changes and that makes sense, I said on the first SISI patch "The Mack is going to be the New Hulk" - and so be it, nothing wrong with that, something has to be top-dog... but at least it's based on sound function in role and also most common player philosophy and practice.

Why Macks all over... because it makes perfect sense.

1. Most miner's are solo player multiboxers... that is just a fact, their reasons for this play style very but it's just the straight fact of the matter... and having a booster that doesn't need to double as a hauler is one reason, and not having a non-miner hauling ship is another - multiboxing is about keeping the least amount of tasks for human-bandwidth attention... hulks need a hauler, so you have two more things to mind in your fleet, and ore transfers - a third extra thing, and then docking and undocking and so on...simplificatoin of tasks = more fun and better performance in the system. So when you have a boost you simply undock and turn on, you have no hauler, and you simply mine and haul each ship as a single entity with no transfers it's obvious people will do that... because it's efficient.

Now is this bad.. NO.. it's fine, it removed alot of the stupidity of using a cargo ship for an ore shuttle... it removed the use of jet-can's which never where intended for mining use, it makes the orca now a real command ship that can sit and boost on site or in system and not try to be a hauler in an op because it sucks in that role - too fat, slow and all, it's best used as a booster, OR a inter-system transport for mining ships, not a inter-op ore shuttle.

So CCP got rid of all the band-aid crap that has plagued mining since the beginning in a few changes - and made it more efficient just like any real life corporation or person would do, and your saying you don't like it because it's not the changes that suited your thoughts or way of playing... well get used to it, it's CCPs game, the majority of people are happy and the few that seem to be complaining are either:

Clueless about mining and just have to say there say regardless of how lacking in any understanding

-or-

Gankers tearing about how this now makes them have to find another outlet for there lack of real PvP skill and there no inability to make easy ISK running around exploiting the games intention for stupid antics to fill a KB with "Puffery" fluffer kills, which simply say you can't make real KMs so you have to pad it to the max with lame crap kills - compensation no doubt for other failings more personal.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#333 - 2012-08-24 22:13:12 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Pasta OfDoom wrote:
I don't understand why people are angry at mining becoming easier. It just means more carebears will mine and the price for minerals will go down.

I think what they really angry at is the risk vs. reward is off. This is of course dependent on several factors and mostly ones own point of view.

Nerf them, buff me! Is the most common point of view.

*shrug* wonder how low some of the macks get though, since they're clearly ungankable, why fit a tank sort of thing.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#334 - 2012-08-25 04:01:36 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:


Yes, I do semi-afk mining too and I LOVE it! I pay ~12,-€ each month just to be able to do it (and no, not plex, I use real money!!). While I do it, I watch TV or read a book or do my normal hause work (the stuff you have to do if you have no mom anymore).


I am confused. Why is paying for a subscription 'better' than burning up PLEX? You seem to think its something to brag about.

Also, what happened to your mom? Did she disown you?

Because I would have.....you know....if I was your mom.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#335 - 2012-08-25 05:02:06 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:


Yes, I do semi-afk mining too and I LOVE it! I pay ~12,-€ each month just to be able to do it (and no, not plex, I use real money!!). While I do it, I watch TV or read a book or do my normal hause work (the stuff you have to do if you have no mom anymore).


I am confused. Why is paying for a subscription 'better' than burning up PLEX? You seem to think its something to brag about.

Also, what happened to your mom? Did she disown you?

Because I would have.....you know....if I was your mom.

Must be the case that selling plexes is even better than farming for isk as well ~~~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#336 - 2012-08-25 05:08:17 UTC
I mostly just pay the monies for an account so I can keep posting here with you great people Bear

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Sal Alo
Pane Panelle e Crocche
#337 - 2012-08-25 14:30:08 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
LilRemmy wrote:
Mining too easy now? I don't get this whine.

~pr0n mining~


fixed Twisted
200 Proof
Unlawful Unit
#338 - 2012-08-25 15:26:22 UTC
The orehold isnt even a third of what it should be, the mackinaw should be 100k ore hold, with 100kehp unfitted.
I mean such a small orebay is a joke.


Ps. I really like the mackinaw now, but the devs cant now, or else they will nerph it
Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2012-08-25 16:11:29 UTC
Whoever made this thread is an idiot, not even gonna look.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#340 - 2012-08-26 07:18:58 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Nobody has pointed out that mackinkaw now holds more ore than an industrial hauler? How has nobody seen the fail logic in this? It takes the role of miner and hauler and does both better. The only thing industrials do is haul, that is their primary role and is what they do best. Wait, it was, until the patch? TROLOLOL

They've turned it into a miner and industrial all in one, the best of both worlds, a true solo pwnmobile.


How many packed frigates can you fit inside in a Mackinaw? Because I can stuff six into a Bestower, and I'm only at level 3. Ammunition? Modules? Processed minerals? Or, more to the point, what can you haul in a Mackinaw besides unprocessed ore?

Your claim to it being "a miner and industrial all in one, the best of both worlds" are completely without merit, unless the only hauling you ever do is raw ores. For everything else you still need proper industrial ships. Even if you're just doing mining, I might add, because once processed those minerals don't get to go back into the ore bay. They have to go in that dinky little 450m lunchbox they glued to the hull as an afterthought.

So yes, I use a Mackinaw, and yes, I always keep that Bestower one step behind it, too.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0