These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

New T2 ship idea: black ops logistic destroyer

Author
C DeLeon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-08-16 06:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: C DeLeon
It's just a random idea which came to my mind during my morning coffee. Seemed to be a good idea to share it.

Pros:
-new t2 destroyer ship type
-new usefull logistic ship besides the existing ones (without kicking those out of their role)
-some boost to black ops
-use of small remote armor repairers, small shield transfer arrays and small energy transfer arrays
-a new (relatively early) milestone in the training curve towards bigger logistic ships
-CCP is already planning to give us new t1 destroyers (as missile platforms). The black ops logi destroyers could be a good T2 counterpart of those models
-they could make frigate/destroyer brawlings more tactical
-lowsec needs more lowrisk pvp (I think it's one of the main reasons why high sec players are staying away from lowsec pvp. The high skillpoint requirement to fly cruisers and bc's succesfully and the high ISK cost of those ships.) A small llogistic ship could make lowsec frigate roamings somewhat more viable with buffer tank frigates.
-I welcome every change which help to fight against nullsec blueballers at this point.

Cons:
-logistic destroyer sounds silly but nevermind :D (but covops/blackops support destroyer sounds OK to me)

Opinions?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#2 - 2012-08-16 14:13:44 UTC
Small hull ops and activity are something I think need to happen more.

+1
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#3 - 2012-08-16 14:15:30 UTC
Just what we need, a ship that can join cloaky falcon/sabre gatecamps.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#4 - 2012-08-16 14:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Read something similar before although it was with cruiser hull, I think. Having a logi as powerful as a Basilisk would be OP in black ops fleet but this sounds pretty cool.

+1

EDIT - that said, might be worth crunching some numbers. I guess with 7 or 8 small reps it could work out ok. Might need a bonus to them to make it worthwhile but it would at least give a use for small remote shield and armour reps which, afaik, have no real use at the moment. I can't do the number crunching atm as I'm at work.
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#5 - 2012-08-16 14:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Griffin Omanid
I think a T2 version of the old mining frigs with the ability to fit medium Remote Armor/Shield/Cap transporter and a Cov OP cloak would something right, wouldn´t it. Cause I think Destroyers are more enduring and more directly damage dealing then a fast stealthy field engineer should be. But this is just my vision of a CovOp logistic.
Call them Engineer Ships (like army corp of engineer) and for Combat give them also a sabotage abilltiy which deals damage directly to moduls which can be overheated (I think all active ones can?), but only 10-20 Damge for each modul every 10 s.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#6 - 2012-08-16 14:42:58 UTC
Griffin Omanid wrote:
I think a T2 version of the old mining frigs with the ability to fit medium Remote Armor/Shield/Cap transporter and a Cov OP cloak would something right, wouldn´t it. Cause I think Destroyers are more enduring and more directly damage dealing then a fast stealthy field engineer should be. But this is just my vision of a CovOp logistic.
Call them Engineer Ships (like army corp of engineer) and for Combat give them also a sabotage abilltiy which deals damage directly to moduls which can be overheated (I think all active ones can?), but only 10-20 Damge for each modul every 10 s.


That's a completely different proposal to the OP. Please start a new thread for a new idea rather than hijacking the OPs thread.

I mean no disrespect and I'm certainly not saying your idea has no value.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#7 - 2012-08-16 16:06:41 UTC
I think we need something similar to this to promote micro fleets.

There is a lot of talk about PvP pilots wanting to see more PvE pilots giving this side of the game a chance.
I believe if we promote low risk / low reward PvP, it will be far more attractive to those willing to consider trying PvP than the perceived risk and investment needed by the larger hull ships.

Also, the OP did not clearly define how this would be cloaked, only referring to it as black ops.
Would it use a CovOps cloak, allowing it to warp cloaked, or would it be like the actual Black Ops, and simply cloak with bonuses to make non warping the only real penalty?
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#8 - 2012-08-16 16:28:19 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
I think we need something similar to this to promote micro fleets.

There is a lot of talk about PvP pilots wanting to see more PvE pilots giving this side of the game a chance.
I believe if we promote low risk / low reward PvP, it will be far more attractive to those willing to consider trying PvP than the perceived risk and investment needed by the larger hull ships.

Also, the OP did not clearly define how this would be cloaked, only referring to it as black ops.
Would it use a CovOps cloak, allowing it to warp cloaked, or would it be like the actual Black Ops, and simply cloak with bonuses to make non warping the only real penalty?


Without major revamp to the black ops fleet jump method and for fleet op continuity it would need to be cov ops cloaked. The black ops often won't follow the fleet into combat at least until the battle is joined (and often not at all) so it doesn't really need a cov ops cloak but the logi arguably would.

Mind you, I don't know how much effort as far as development is concerned it would be to allow specific ships to use the Black Ops jump portal rather than just ships with cov ops cloaks and logi could arguably warp in after the battle's joined too so it's a point up for argument I suppose.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-08-16 16:34:34 UTC
if you find a better name then yes sounds ok.
C DeLeon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-08-16 16:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: C DeLeon
Griffin Omanid wrote:
I think a T2 version of the old mining frigs with the ability to fit medium Remote Armor/Shield/Cap transporter and a Cov OP cloak would something right, wouldn´t it. Cause I think Destroyers are more enduring and more directly damage dealing then a fast stealthy field engineer should be. But this is just my vision of a CovOp logistic.
Call them Engineer Ships (like army corp of engineer) and for Combat give them also a sabotage abilltiy which deals damage directly to moduls which can be overheated (I think all active ones can?), but only 10-20 Damge for each modul every 10 s.


Frigs was in my mind first but I think destroyers could be a better choice for the role because of a few reasons.

- It would be hard to balance frigate sized logistic ships imo. They are hard to take down by larger ships with bad tracking. Either frigates could be overpowered by significant repping power or they could be useless without it by not making to much difference. If I remember well they talked about it in the CSM minutes but they haven't thouched the question deeply.

-Destroyers are easier targets for larger ships so it could be easier to give them more repping power without making them too overpowered.

-Destroyers could be similar to the t2 logistic cruisers in the number of the fitting slots (maybe a little bit less) but with small mods instead of mediums.

-There are so many roles already filled by frigates. The destroyers suffer from the lack of the diversity.


Nikk Narrel wrote:
Also, the OP did not clearly define how this would be cloaked, only referring to it as black ops.
Would it use a CovOps cloak, allowing it to warp cloaked, or would it be like the actual Black Ops, and simply cloak with bonuses to make non warping the only real penalty?


TBH I hadn’t thought about that. Maybe we should be able to fit covops cloaks but only with some restrictions. More CPU need by covops cloak than standard cloak so if we wan't to use it then we have to sacrifice some of the tank for example.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-08-16 17:25:56 UTC
I think this is a great idea.

I thing they SHOULD have cov ops cloaks and the ability to fit small repair modules, or squeeze in a few medium ones but at a big disadvantage.

The ability to cloak mitigates the ability to instapop most destroyers in a fight and this would mean that the cov ops fleets would have some logistics.

+1
C DeLeon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-08-16 17:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: C DeLeon
Herping yourDerp wrote:
if you find a better name then yes sounds ok.


How about "light logistics" as a group name and "Covert Ops (or Black Ops) Support Destroyer" as a role?
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#13 - 2012-08-16 21:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Griffin Omanid
C DeLeon wrote:


Frigs was in my mind first but I think destroyers could be a better choice for the role because of a few reasons.

- It would be hard to balance frigate sized logistic ships imo. They are hard to take down by larger ships with bad tracking. Either frigates could be overpowered by significant repping power or they could be useless without it by not making to much difference. If I remember well they talked about it in the CSM minutes but they haven't thouched the question deeply.

-Destroyers are easier targets for larger ships so it could be easier to give them more repping power without making them too overpowered.

-Destroyers could be similar to the t2 logistic cruisers in the number of the fitting slots (maybe a little bit less) but with small mods instead of mediums.

-There are so many roles already filled by frigates. The destroyers suffer from the lack of the diversity.


Ok, you right frigate sized logis with med remote support may be to imbalanced, and with small remote support they may not be used. It is to bad that there aren´t yet any informations of the new destroyers anounced, but I would suggest they also will be more the damage dealing vessels.

Do you think they should get any other ability beside the combination of logistic and "travelling with BlackOps-Fleets".

I think they should be able to use CovOps Cloaks so that they will be more effektiv then any T3-Logi-CovOp-Cruisers, because cheaper, less skills and smaller hull, but also as disadvantage less EHP.
Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-16 21:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dennis Gregs
C DeLeon wrote:

-CCP is already planning to give us new t1 destroyers (as missile platforms). The black ops logi destroyers could be a good T2 counterpart of those models?


This is where I realized this post is win. We'll need a T2 variant of those sometime.

+1

Edit: about the balance thing, it's easy to adjust it with role bonuses.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#15 - 2012-08-16 21:27:35 UTC
Ganktards are not quite happy with their ability to insta-drop a crapload of DPS. They want to drop a crapload of repping power as well. How cute. How urgent!

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#16 - 2012-08-16 21:56:01 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Ganktards are not quite happy with their ability to insta-drop a crapload of DPS. They want to drop a crapload of repping power as well. How cute. How urgent!


They can already just drop rep fitted blops bs. Its not like you are landing far away from each other.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-08-16 22:23:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Ganktards are not quite happy with their ability to insta-drop a crapload of DPS. They want to drop a crapload of repping power as well. How cute. How urgent!


Fon Revedhort wrote:
Look at me! Just because someone somewhere in Eve is able to use something in a way that I don't like, i will say that that thing shouldn't be used for ANYTHING New...


Your logic astounds...
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#18 - 2012-08-18 04:35:14 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Ganktards are not quite happy with their ability to insta-drop a crapload of DPS. They want to drop a crapload of repping power as well. How cute. How urgent!

Carebears must suffer Twisted
Antal Marius
Allied Operations
Mechanicus Macabre Immortale
#19 - 2012-08-18 07:42:04 UTC
I could see the use of a covert logi ship, I've got friends that do black ops runs and their main complaint is that either they take a cloaky T3 RR with them, or they go without logis altogether.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#20 - 2012-08-18 08:26:29 UTC
Not sure what to think. I could totally abuse the **** out of a light cloaky logi, which is good... but the fact I could abuse the **** out of it is a bit of a balance concern.
12Next page