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Why Off Grid booster nerf won't happen (ever) or won't be what you think

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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#201 - 2012-08-15 18:45:48 UTC
Quote:
This is you not understanding gang bonus mechanics.

-Liang


How so? Set one person as the fleet booster and put the right people in the squad/wing/fleet command positions and everyone gets boosts. Where is this incorrect?


Quote:
I'm talking about one example of many possible ones and it doesn't always work out in your favor, but in the position of smaller fleet V blob you'd be making use of the links that gave you the most chances to control range and get out if your overwhelmed.


And with Loki boosts the larger gang has a better chance of running you down and stopping you from getting away. I fail to see the advantage.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#202 - 2012-08-15 18:49:44 UTC
Quote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
This is you not understanding gang bonus mechanics.

-Liang


How so? Set one person as the fleet booster and put the right people in the squad/wing/fleet command positions and everyone gets boosts. Where is this incorrect?


Boosts from squad 1 don't go to squad 2. You need boosts for all the squads and all the wings.

Quote:

[quote]I'm talking about one example of many possible ones and it doesn't always work out in your favor, but in the position of smaller fleet V blob you'd be making use of the links that gave you the most chances to control range and get out if your overwhelmed.


And with Loki boosts the larger gang has a better chance of running you down and stopping you from getting away. I fail to see the advantage.


And this leads back to what I've been saying: ships that are capable of providing links do not adequately fit into the gangs that really need them. There are some core problems with simply bringing links on the field that must be solved first.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#203 - 2012-08-15 18:55:02 UTC
Quote:
Boosts from squad 1 don't go to squad 2. You need boosts for all the squads and all the wings.


...yes...which is why I said fleet booster, not wing booster or squad booster. A fleet booster boosts the whole fleet. If your fleet fits inside a single wing, then a wing booster will boost the whole fleet.


Quote:
And this leads back to what I've been saying: ships that are capable of providing links do not adequately fit into the gangs that really need them. There are some core problems with simply bringing links on the field that must be solved first.


Not arguing that point - merely that off grid boosts are bullshit.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#204 - 2012-08-15 18:56:27 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:


And with Loki boosts the larger gang has a better chance of running you down and stopping you from getting away. I fail to see the advantage.


A better chance yes but you still have a bigger field to play on, ultimately its not gonna make a much smaller gang massively more potent against a bigger one but it does give you a lot more chances.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#205 - 2012-08-15 18:58:47 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Quote:
And this leads back to what I've been saying: ships that are capable of providing links do not adequately fit into the gangs that really need them. There are some core problems with simply bringing links on the field that must be solved first.


Not arguing that point - merely that off grid boosts are bullshit.


Bullshit or not, in the immediate future the game would be worse without off grid boosts. So let's see if we can come up with a list of problems that should be solved first. I guess I can't count on you for any sort of reasonableness on this subject though.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#206 - 2012-08-15 19:05:01 UTC
Quote:
Bullshit or not, in the immediate future the game would be worse without off grid boosts. So let's see if we can come up with a list of problems that should be solved first. I guess I can't count on you for any sort of reasonableness on this subject though.


The game as it stands would be better without boosts at all...And if certain command ships were underpowered to the point that they weren't used, it would still be an improvement over the current situation. The only reason why I would call for a rebalance first rather than just nerfing them into the ground until they can be fixed is that it would be unfair to the people who currently have SP in leadership and dumped ISK into CS/boosting t3s.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#207 - 2012-08-15 19:10:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Bullshit or not, in the immediate future the game would be worse without off grid boosts. So let's see if we can come up with a list of problems that should be solved first. I guess I can't count on you for any sort of reasonableness on this subject though.


The game as it stands would be better without boosts at all...And if certain command ships were underpowered to the point that they weren't used, it would still be an improvement over the current situation. The only reason why I would call for a rebalance first rather than just nerfing them into the ground until they can be fixed is that it would be unfair to the people who currently have SP in leadership and dumped ISK into CS/boosting t3s.


Yeah, but they aren't talking about removing boosts in general. Only Off grid boosters. And if this is the way that it is going to be then small gangs will have nothing to answer for a larger force who happens to also have a command ship on field.

But I guess your solution of "faction fit everything" could solve that. Roll
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#208 - 2012-08-15 19:17:28 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Bullshit or not, in the immediate future the game would be worse without off grid boosts. So let's see if we can come up with a list of problems that should be solved first. I guess I can't count on you for any sort of reasonableness on this subject though.


The game as it stands would be better without boosts at all...And if certain command ships were underpowered to the point that they weren't used, it would still be an improvement over the current situation. The only reason why I would call for a rebalance first rather than just nerfing them into the ground until they can be fixed is that it would be unfair to the people who currently have SP in leadership and dumped ISK into CS/boosting t3s.


I think your playing the wrong game... otherwise you'd better start calling to nerfs to implants, cynos, cloaking devices, etc. to.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#209 - 2012-08-15 19:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
Yeah, but they aren't talking about removing boosts in general. Only Off grid boosters. And if this is the way that it is going to be then small gangs will have nothing to answer for a larger force who happens to also have a command ship on field.


I fail to see how that's different than the current situation.


Quote:
But I guess your solution of "faction fit everything" could solve that.


No, my solution is to stop believing you're entitled to have statistical advantages over everyone.
Quote:

I think your playing the wrong game... otherwise you'd better start calling to nerfs to implants, cynos, cloaking devices, etc. to.


Implants are a stupid mechanic because there's such a difference in risk between fighting in lowsec vs nullsec...in the former, it's very easy to keep them even if you explode a lot. Cyno hotdrops are equally dumb.

So I guess the only thing in your list that isn't broken is cloaks, as they have plenty of built-in disadvantages.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#210 - 2012-08-15 19:24:14 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Bullshit or not, in the immediate future the game would be worse without off grid boosts. So let's see if we can come up with a list of problems that should be solved first. I guess I can't count on you for any sort of reasonableness on this subject though.


The game as it stands would be better without boosts at all...And if certain command ships were underpowered to the point that they weren't used, it would still be an improvement over the current situation. The only reason why I would call for a rebalance first rather than just nerfing them into the ground until they can be fixed is that it would be unfair to the people who currently have SP in leadership and dumped ISK into CS/boosting t3s.


I would be more fine with the complete removal of leadership than I would be with simply bringing gang boosts on grid.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Ron Swanson III
Doomheim
#211 - 2012-08-15 19:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ron Swanson III
If only there was some way to counter off-grid boosting, such as bringing your own off-grid booster or making it so that off-grid boosters can be scanned down and shot at.

I honestly don't care one way or the other, but boosting should not work through a POS shield.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#212 - 2012-08-15 19:24:59 UTC
Rroff wrote:
I think your playing the wrong game... otherwise you'd better start calling to nerfs to implants, cynos, cloaking devices, etc. to.


You think he hasn't? Lol

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#213 - 2012-08-15 19:25:54 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Implants are a stupid mechanic because there's such a difference in risk between fighting in lowsec vs nullsec...in the former, it's very easy to keep them even if you explode a lot. Cyno hotdrops are equally dumb.

So I guess the only thing in your list that isn't broken is cloaks, as they have plenty of built-in disadvantages.


Yeah I remember how you were **** talking me about my implants because of low sec. While I lived in a wormhole. Roll

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#214 - 2012-08-15 19:26:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Kahega Amielden wrote:

I fail to see how that's different than the current situation.


You are failing to see alot of things.



Kahega Amielden wrote:

No, my solution is to stop believing you're entitled to have statistical advantages over everyone.


Oh? So I can't have implants? I'm not entitled to use them?

What about faction fits? I thought you said I should faction fit everything? Lol?

How dare I have an advantage?! You are right, I should start every fight with an ibis... That way I won't ever have any advantages over other players. This game is all about fairness after all Smile


Your "solution" is that you are mad that people have OGBs (edit: Or implants for that matter, and faction modules, or friends, or remote reps, or ecm alts, etc) and you don't. Get over it.

I trained my alt for months and poured isk into the stuff needed to have an OGB. I'm entitled to using it because i took the time to make it possible.

Same way I'm entitled to using an implant because I paid for it, or bringing other people to fights because I made friends with them.


Edit: This guy also thinks implants are bad. LOL.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#215 - 2012-08-15 19:29:00 UTC
Quote:
Yeah I remember how you were **** talking me about my implants because of low sec. While I lived in a wormhole.


I recall explaining why I thought implants were a poor mechanic. I never bashed you specifically for using them.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#216 - 2012-08-15 19:31:30 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Yeah I remember how you were **** talking me about my implants because of low sec. While I lived in a wormhole.


I recall explaining why I thought implants were a poor mechanic. I never bashed you specifically for using them.


Yes, you did. But I'm sure that's just another "misunderstanding" about how you "joke".

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#217 - 2012-08-15 19:31:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Yeah I remember how you were **** talking me about my implants because of low sec. While I lived in a wormhole.


I recall explaining why I thought implants were a poor mechanic. I never bashed you specifically for using them.


Hey, skills are a poor mechanic... I mean like... you can kill the guy and pod him... but if hes smart he will NEVER LOSE skillpoints!!!!

How OP is that? He clearly has an advantage and he feels like hes entitled to it. How dare he... Shame on him.
Beat General
Doomheim
#218 - 2012-08-15 19:35:17 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Yeah I remember how you were **** talking me about my implants because of low sec. While I lived in a wormhole.


I recall explaining why I thought implants were a poor mechanic. I never bashed you specifically for using them.


Hey, skills are a poor mechanic... I mean like... you can kill the guy and pod him... but if hes smart he will NEVER LOSE skillpoints!!!!

How OP is that? He clearly has an advantage and he feels like hes entitled to it. How dare he... Shame on him.


roflmao.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#219 - 2012-08-15 19:36:35 UTC
-snip-
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#220 - 2012-08-15 19:37:26 UTC

Quote:

Oh? So I can't have implants? I'm not entitled to use them?

What about faction fits? I thought you said I should faction fit everything? Lol?

How dare I have an advantage?! You are right, I should start every fight with an ibis... That way I won't ever have any advantages over other players. This game is all about fairness after al


Already answered; the statistical advantages from invisible things like faction mods are minor. Even the statistical advantages of things like implants are pretty small relative to cost.


Regardless, there's little point in continuing this since apparently everyone's bitty. CCP and the CSM have already spoken, and OGBs are not going to be here for very long.