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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

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Vid Eeomeet
Smoke 'n' Mirrors
#321 - 2011-10-13 01:06:21 UTC
The Apostle- Of course I know cloaked ships don't show on d-scan. Neither can cloaked ships take any offensive action. A cloaked ship is only dangerous once decloaked. Then they show up on d-scan if close or in overview if dangerously close. A true AFk cloaker won't even pass on Intel being afk. I do just fine in systems with cloaked vessels because I watch my d-scan for ships that decloak and can actually engage. Any ship that can engage has to decloak first. Also cyno'd in ships will spike local. I just don't see the problem. There's no need to avoid somebody that can't attack. They can only attack once you can see them too on d-scan or overview or local spike from covert cyno.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#322 - 2011-10-13 01:07:50 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Morganta wrote:
unless I'm orbiting a moon at 349km


Nope, can still find you regardless if you are moving in a straight line or orbiting something. If you're AFK then your vector remains unchanged. I probe you down 4 or 5 times at different, regular intervals and drop a can at each spot. Depending on the line or the curve i can predict where you will be.


Unless you change your vector.


Now THIS is much more entertaning for me, both for the hunter and the hunted.


lol, boy you sure got a heavy axe to grind there, perhaps you should just relocate to quieter places
I can't imagine all this maniacal planning is doing your blood pressure very good
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#323 - 2011-10-13 01:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Vid Eeomeet wrote:
The Apostle- Of course I know cloaked ships don't show on d-scan. Neither can cloaked ships take any offensive action. A cloaked ship is only dangerous once decloaked. Then they show up on d-scan if close or in overview if dangerously close. A true AFk cloaker won't even pass on Intel being afk. I do just fine in systems with cloaked vessels because I watch my d-scan for ships that decloak and can actually engage. Any ship that can engage has to decloak first. Also cyno'd in ships will spike local. I just don't see the problem. There's no need to avoid somebody that can't attack. They can only attack once you can see them too on d-scan or overview or local spike from covert cyno.


I like the way you think =)

Morganta wrote:
lol, boy you sure got a heavy axe to grind there, perhaps you should just relocate to quieter places
I can't imagine all this maniacal planning is doing your blood pressure very good


So i'm maniacal because i actually want to work for my kills? Isn't that the same type of maniacal planning that goes with camping a system waiting for a lone prey doing an anomaly?

Double-standards, much? Wouldn't like being on the other side of the game?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#324 - 2011-10-13 01:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Vid Eeomeet wrote:
The Apostle- Of course I know cloaked ships don't show on d-scan. Neither can cloaked ships take any offensive action. A cloaked ship is only dangerous once decloaked. Then they show up on d-scan if close or in overview if dangerously close. A true AFk cloaker won't even pass on Intel being afk. I do just fine in systems with cloaked vessels because I watch my d-scan for ships that decloak and can actually engage. Any ship that can engage has to decloak first. Also cyno'd in ships will spike local. I just don't see the problem. There's no need to avoid somebody that can't attack. They can only attack once you can see them too on d-scan or overview or local spike from covert cyno.

A cloaky recon can come up just over 2.5k fully cloaked and he will not show until he decloaks and lights a cyno right on your clacker. You won't need to d-scan. he's there!!

Worse, if he has a mate, you're pointed before you can even find the warp button. Less than 10 seconds later, blob is in and you're dead.

Blob scatters and waits it out to exit.

And unless you have a fleet WITH you - you can't stop it.

But that isn't the topic. The fact is that the threat of the drop remains even if the cloaky is in bed fast asleep is the issue.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#325 - 2011-10-13 01:21:46 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Keep digging troll...... Standard response when you've lost the plot. Attack the poster not the post... I'm good with it...

You losing the argument doesn't mean I'm attacking you. Let's tone down the hyperbole a bit.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#326 - 2011-10-13 01:22:08 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Vid Eeomeet wrote:
The Apostle- Of course I know cloaked ships don't show on d-scan. Neither can cloaked ships take any offensive action. A cloaked ship is only dangerous once decloaked. Then they show up on d-scan if close or in overview if dangerously close. A true AFk cloaker won't even pass on Intel being afk. I do just fine in systems with cloaked vessels because I watch my d-scan for ships that decloak and can actually engage. Any ship that can engage has to decloak first. Also cyno'd in ships will spike local. I just don't see the problem. There's no need to avoid somebody that can't attack. They can only attack once you can see them too on d-scan or overview or local spike from covert cyno.

A cloaky recon can come up just over 2.5k fully cloaked and he will not show until he decloaks and lights a cyno right on your clacker. You won't need to d-scan. he's there!!

Worse, if he has a mate, you're pointed before you can even find the warp button. Less than 10 seconds later, blob is in and you're dead.

Blob scatters and waits it out to exit.

And unless you have a fleet WITH you - you can't stop it.

But that isn't the topic. The fact is that the threat of the drop remains even if the cloaky is in bed fast asleep is the issue.


well that must be one hell of a bat phone to call in a hotdrop 23/7

if these guys can do that you might as well just give up, they won eve
Kiblete
State War Academy
Caldari State
#327 - 2011-10-13 01:22:46 UTC
Why do we need a solution to folk if as you say are AFK who will do nothing/

I'd be more scared of the ones who pretended to be |AFk but have scouted out your whole system. (or have they (OMGWTFBBQ)
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#328 - 2011-10-13 01:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
The Apostle wrote:
Vid Eeomeet wrote:
The Apostle- Of course I know cloaked ships don't show on d-scan. Neither can cloaked ships take any offensive action. A cloaked ship is only dangerous once decloaked. Then they show up on d-scan if close or in overview if dangerously close. A true AFk cloaker won't even pass on Intel being afk. I do just fine in systems with cloaked vessels because I watch my d-scan for ships that decloak and can actually engage. Any ship that can engage has to decloak first. Also cyno'd in ships will spike local. I just don't see the problem. There's no need to avoid somebody that can't attack. They can only attack once you can see them too on d-scan or overview or local spike from covert cyno.

A cloaky recon can come up just over 2.5k fully cloaked and he will not show until he decloaks and lights a cyno right on your clacker. You won't need to d-scan. he's there!!

Worse, if he has a mate, you're pointed before you can even find the warp button. Less than 10 seconds later, blob is in and you're dead.

Blob scatters and waits it out to exit.

And unless you have a fleet WITH you - you can't stop it.

But that isn't the topic. The fact remains that
Quote:
the threat
of this occurs even if the cloaky is in bed fast asleep is the issue.


I think you have it all wrong. The issue is not with having a cloaker or not in the system. The issue is that the ****** can't be found, regardless if he is a threat or not.

Anyone should be susceptible to a pod-express anywhere in the known universe, in any ship, under any state if he is undocked. This is the EVE i like and love.


As long as you claim that an AFK cloaker is a threat people will target and counter that argument and with valid reason. AFK people are no threat.


They are AFK ffs.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Vid Eeomeet
Smoke 'n' Mirrors
#329 - 2011-10-13 01:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vid Eeomeet
The Apostle - Sounds to me like you're more complaining about the cloaking modules being in this game than afk cloakers. That's just something we all have to deal with in lowsec and null. Stay on your toes and unless you are in something that gets into warp horribly slow, you should be alright. We're not talking about highsec here.

Even ships specced to lower their target time after decloaking still have to target you. A ship exiting a cyno still has to target you.

Cloaks are working as intended. Like every other situation in EVE, tactics and a sharp pilot that's quick to react will often be ok. If you're worried about cloaked ships that aren't afk, maybe you should avoid systems with any people in them or just stay out of nullsec.

Maybe I'm different, but threats don't bother me, the enacted threat does. That's when I leave. If I die to a ship that dropped his cloak and was able to target and scram me, I accept that as a part of the risks of being in lowsec / nullsec. No big deal.

I do understand there is a point to be made about cloakers can't be found. Again, neither can they do anything while cloaked, afk or not, other than follow somebody and relay intel. I just don't see the need to counter somebody that can't do anything while they are cloaked. If it really is a huge issue, bait them and have a close fleet on standby. Most cloaky ships can be at least held and withstood long enough to get a neighboring fleet to you.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#330 - 2011-10-13 01:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Heh.. you elite pvp'ers got so spoiled by your trusty covert ops cloaking device that i almost feel the shame you ought to be feeling of yourselves.. What a bunch of hypocrites =)

So scared that people might one day be able to find you.. I pray to god that one day i get to taste your tears.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#331 - 2011-10-13 01:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Keep digging troll...... Standard response when you've lost the plot. Attack the poster not the post... I'm good with it...

You losing the argument doesn't mean I'm attacking you. Let's tone down the hyperbole a bit.

What. You take exception to being called out for trolling? Deal with it.

Nonetheless, has it occured to you that if CCP were following this topic looking for the rationale behind the topic that they would dismiss the obvious troll regardless of what he/she might say at a later date?

This isn't meant to be a "I'm right", "You're wrong" debate. It's identifying concerns by players and it seeks debate because, for many, it is an issue. If CCP have the stats showing 0.0 exodus spikes they may well take an interest into why.

Is this one of those reasons? It IS and has been a VERY hot topic simply by the number times it's raised. Do ya think CCP might have a handle it by now?

Your'e HELPING to keep the topic to the forefront. You're input is not only welcomed, it is required.... Otherwise it's not a debate is it?

Besides, I don't need to "win" the argument, I just let trolls "lose" their credibility by default.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#332 - 2011-10-13 01:37:55 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Heh.. you elite pvp'ers got so spoiled by your trusty covert ops cloaking device that i almost feel the shame you ought to be feeling of yourselves.. What a bunch of hypocrites =)

So scared that people might one day be able to find you.. I pray to god that one day i get to taste your tears.


why not just grow a pair and fight people who want to fight you
you'll be amazed about how little of a **** you'll give about afk cloakers when you actually have something to do and not sitting there bored out of your tree grinding your teeth and jotting down short punctuated notes and KOS lists on little scraps of paper that you affix to the wall with a booger.

my tears are waiting, you just need to come and collect

or is hunting down and killing people "not at the keyboard" really more your speed?
I mean if it is you might want to consider high sec mining
The Apostle
Doomheim
#333 - 2011-10-13 01:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Vid Eeomeet wrote:
The Apostle - Sounds to me like you're more complaining about the cloaking modules being in this game than afk cloakers. That's just something we all have to deal with in lowsec and null. Stay on your toes and unless you are in something that gets into warp horribly slow, you should be alright. We're not talking about highsec here.

Even ships specced to lower their target time after decloaking still have to target you. A ship exiting a cyno still has to target you.

Cloaks are working as intended. Like every other situation in EVE, tactics and a sharp pilot that's quick to react will often be ok. If you're worried about cloaked ships that aren't afk, maybe you should avoid systems with any people in them or just stay out of nullsec.

Maybe I'm different, but threats don't bother me, the enacted threat does. That's when I leave. If I die to a ship that dropped his cloak and was able to target and scram me, I accept that as a part of the risks of being in lowsec / nullsec. No big deal.

I do understand there is a point to be made about cloakers can't be found. Again, neither can they do anything while cloaked, afk or not, other than follow somebody and relay intel. I just don't see the need to counter somebody that can't do anything while they are cloaked. If it really is a huge issue, bait them and have a close fleet on standby. Most cloaky ships can be at least held and withstood long enough to get a neighboring fleet to you.

Despite the fact you keep coming back to off topic, I'll take the time to invite you back here and post when (not if) you get hotdropped.

We'll see if you still think this is true. The number of HD kills on ratters would be a great statistic to show if it were possible. Most of them are people who think just like you do right now.

BTW: What's your alliance policy on ratting/mining with neut in system?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#334 - 2011-10-13 01:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Morganta wrote:
why not just grow a pair and fight people who want to fight you



Your attempt at diverting the point amuses me =)

If i didn't know better, i'd say you are sounding just like a high-sec carebear who doesn't want the fight brought to them, because "oh i haven't done anything to anybody"

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#335 - 2011-10-13 02:01:51 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Morganta wrote:
why not just grow a pair and fight people who want to fight you



Your attempt at diverting the point amuses me =)

If i didn't know better, i'd say you are sounding just like a high-sec carebear who doesn't want the fight brought to them, because "oh i haven't done anything to anybody"


come at me bro.

no you are asking for a new way to be a ganker because you apparently can't do it in the traditional ways.

hunting down afk people is not a dignified or honorable profession, and is just what i would expect from that hi-sec carebear you speak of
Gogurt
#336 - 2011-10-13 02:07:49 UTC
Apostle, if you had just braved the unknown and ratted with the AFK cloaker in system you could have continued to make ISK. Now you're sentenced to spend the rest of your days cowering in highsec. What do people always say? No risk, no reward? I don't think you belonged in 0.0 ..and now you have a thread about removing all PVP from highsec. Are you sure this is the right game for you?
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#337 - 2011-10-13 02:09:14 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Morganta wrote:
why not just grow a pair and fight people who want to fight you



Your attempt at diverting the point amuses me =)

If i didn't know better, i'd say you are sounding just like a high-sec carebear who doesn't want the fight brought to them, because "oh i haven't done anything to anybody"


come at me bro.

no you are asking for a new way to be a ganker because you apparently can't do it in the traditional ways.

hunting down afk people is not a dignified or honorable profession, and is just what i would expect from that hi-sec carebear you speak of



Now you are sounding exactly like someone who does not want the fight brought to him.

This is what i'm talking about. This is the kind of ~elite PvPer~ that the damned covert ops cloaking device have created. Killing the hulks and the PVE ravens and the ratting abaddons is pretty dignified eh? Sneaking behind a guys back and lighting a cyno to call 10 friends is a very honorable profession, right?!


Theres nothing wrong with doing any of these things so don't you tell me that finding your cloaked ass is dishonorable. This is the double-standard that i'm talking about. You people make me sick to my stomach.


PvP'ers... Pfft. You make us all look bad.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#338 - 2011-10-13 02:10:07 UTC
Quote:
Maybe I'm different, but threats don't bother me, the enacted threat does. That's when I leave. If I die to a ship that dropped his cloak and was able to target and scram me, I accept that as a part of the risks of being in lowsec / nullsec. No big deal.


So if I point a gun at your head, it won't bother you? After all, technically its not a threat till I pull the trigger. I am however fairly sure that you wouldn't be happy about the situation!

All the arguments FOR afk cloaking involve the defenders having to put in a massive amount of effort compared to the AFK cloaker's none.

None of the arguments for afk cloaking address the fact it makes PLAYERS in null-sec (not alliances) earn less money than they would running L4s in empire or incursions. This makes null-sec worthless to anyone except the top alliance people who are receiving moon-goo income.

Also note that SBs in particular have no targetting delay on de-cloak AND have a decent sensor res. One can easily drop cloak, point you and pop a cyno in under 2 seconds. As meantioned before, there is no defence except having a fleet on-grid with you the whole time.

As for the 'well he probably doesn't have a fleet on call', how are you meant to know this? Is every player in null meant to have knowledge of every cap fleet within jump range at all times? I don't think so!

At the end of the day, having a cloaked ship in system, AFK or not, is a massive threat to anyone in the system. The only difference between them been AFK and not been AFK really is the effort been put in. I've no problem with cloakies been able to disrupt systems, that is their job (or one of them), the problem is they can do it EFFORTLESSLY and in COMPLETE SAFETY.

If anyone is been risk adverse here, its the people supporting AFK cloaking not the other way round. Cloaking shouldn't be the god mode it is today, at the very least not if the player is AFK, hell to be honest, I would support a limited ability to harass a non-afk cloaker as well althrough that is more difficult to implement without making cloaking useless for running gates e.t.c. Anyone hanging around in a hostle system should have to take a bit of risk at least!!! Everyone else does so why not cloakers?

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
The Apostle
Doomheim
#339 - 2011-10-13 02:14:25 UTC
Gogurt wrote:
Apostle, if you had just braved the unknown and ratted with the AFK cloaker in system you could have continued to make ISK. Now you're sentenced to spend the rest of your days cowering in highsec. What do people always say? No risk, no reward? I don't think you belonged in 0.0 ..and now you have a thread about removing all PVP from highsec. Are you sure this is the right game for you?

In case you don't know (and it appears you don't) most 0.0 alliances have a no ratting/mining policy with neut in system because the kill mangles the kb stats - it HAS nothing to do with "growing a pair".

In fact if you are killed ratting with neut in system, you're usually warned first and then booted on second offense.

And alliances with that policy are the eaiest to AFK cloak because you know what the resultant system denial effect will be.

Now use the post button and add something constructive.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#340 - 2011-10-13 02:14:46 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Morganta wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Morganta wrote:
why not just grow a pair and fight people who want to fight you



Your attempt at diverting the point amuses me =)

If i didn't know better, i'd say you are sounding just like a high-sec carebear who doesn't want the fight brought to them, because "oh i haven't done anything to anybody"


come at me bro.

no you are asking for a new way to be a ganker because you apparently can't do it in the traditional ways.

hunting down afk people is not a dignified or honorable profession, and is just what i would expect from that hi-sec carebear you speak of


This is what i'm talking about. This is the kind of ~elite PvPer~ that the damned covert ops cloaking device have created. Killing the hulks and the PVE ravens and the ratting abaddons is pretty dignified eh? Sneaking behind a guys back and lighting a cyno to call 10 friends is a very honorable profession, right?!


Theres nothing wrong with doing any of these things so don't you tell me that finding your cloaked ass is dishonorable. This is the double-standard that i'm talking about. You people make me sick to my stomach.


PvP'ers... Pfft. You make us all look bad.



HA!

the killing of hulks and the PVE ravens and the ratting abaddons is pretty dignified, and its done by people AT THE KEYBOARD, the ones you profess to have no problem with.

so either you are just a moron or you are pulling off a fairly decent troll, but that last post foiled your plan and I'll feed you no more.

and my offer stands, you wanna dance? I'll be happy to be your partner, and it won't be in any damn covops boat I can tell you that.