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My minerals are free mentality
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Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#1 - 2012-08-14 09:24:22 UTC
Sometimes when i get bored I buy ships and items on the market that are belo mineral prices then sell the minerals or produce something for a small profit.

What surprises me most is that capital ships can go below their mineral costs quite a bit.

The time, effort, and materials needed to make a cap is nothing to sneeze at.

What drives people to do this for no profit at all.
Inquisitor Tyr
VEN0M0US.
Out of the Blue.
#2 - 2012-08-14 09:44:36 UTC
If you are producing capitals for no profit, you are doing it wrong.
Sigras
Conglomo
#3 - 2012-08-14 10:27:39 UTC
i have never seen cap ships sell below cost. . . in fact ive never seen anything sell below cost for very long in high sec . . .
Fortwunny
Nemesis Innovations
#4 - 2012-08-14 11:04:33 UTC
Personally, I'm too damn lazy to sell minerals via sell orders. Too much competition desperate to stay on top of the game.
Trying to sell off a massive stock of minerals might take a while.

But if I can shove them all into a few built items and then sell those items for at mineral sell cost, I have effectively just sold all my mins at sell price without having to deal with market whores.

Fuel blocks for example.

The price of an fuel block never drops below the cost of the bits to build it via stuff bought from sell orders.

If I buy all the PI materials and use my own ice for the rest, I can effectively sell my ice products in the fuel at their equivalent sell price without much hassle, like dealing with multiple types of sell orders, or a volatile jita market.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#5 - 2012-08-14 12:20:31 UTC
You don't need to play the .01 isk game for most commodities. Place your sell order at a reasonable price and wait. Unless the market goes south and stays south, it'll eventually sell. It might take a while but it sure beats babysitting the orders.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#6 - 2012-08-14 12:44:19 UTC
Lot of pricing is determined by volume. Cap ships just don't have the volume as others items. So low prices might be just people seeking to offload that massive isk asset they don't use anymore.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2012-08-14 13:54:39 UTC
Capships take approximately a month to build from raw minerals. "below cost" capships are only below cost right now, but they're still making a profit for the manufacturer.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-14 14:06:14 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Capships take approximately a month to build from raw minerals. "below cost" capships are only below cost right now, but they're still making a profit for the manufacturer.

That's a fallacy.
If you make money by building a ship at T0 price and then sell them below it's T1 cost, you'd be better off simply buying minerals at T0 and then selling them at T1.
Aud Actori
Ciomach Oibriche
#9 - 2012-08-14 15:36:49 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
Sometimes when i get bored I buy ships and items on the market that are belo mineral prices then sell the minerals or produce something for a small profit.

What surprises me most is that capital ships can go below their mineral costs quite a bit.

The time, effort, and materials needed to make a cap is nothing to sneeze at.

What drives people to do this for no profit at all.


People are stupid. End of discussion.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#10 - 2012-08-14 15:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Pisov viet wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Capships take approximately a month to build from raw minerals. "below cost" capships are only below cost right now, but they're still making a profit for the manufacturer.

That's a fallacy.
If you make money by building a ship at T0 price and then sell them below it's T1 cost, you'd be better off simply buying minerals at T0 and then selling them at T1.

If you knew exactly what the market is going to do in a month, absolutely. Even better if you know what CCP changes are coming and you can predict what the changes will do.

Problem is you can't. You decide to build a cap ship to sell, in a month I bet you are looking to sell it. So what's a rational actor to do? Wait hoping someone will buy his ship at T1 prices and that those prices don't go down, or sell it lower than current prices to move it more quickly? This all assumes you are building it in the first place and not someone dumping something they don't use for lower than its current worth but higher than they paid for it. Heck, I bought my Thanatos at 650mil. What are they worth now? If I sell for 800mil because I need the 800mil now to buy mining ships that will earn me more than my carrier, am I being stupid or rational?

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-14 16:06:21 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Capships take approximately a month to build from raw minerals. "below cost" capships are only below cost right now, but they're still making a profit for the manufacturer.

That's a fallacy.
If you make money by building a ship at T0 price and then sell them below it's T1 cost, you'd be better off simply buying minerals at T0 and then selling them at T1.

If you knew exactly what the market is going to do in a month, absolutely. Even better if you know what CCP changes are coming and you can predict what the changes will do.

Problem is you can't. You decide to build a cap ship to sell, in a month I bet you are looking to sell it. So what's a rational actor to do? Wait hoping someone will buy his ship at T1 prices and that those prices don't go down, or sell it lower than current prices to move it more quickly? This all assumes you are building it in the first place and not someone dumping something they don't use for lower than its current worth but higher than they paid for it. Heck, I bought my Thanatos at 650mil. What are they worth now? If I sell for 800mil because I need the 800mil now to buy mining ships that will earn me more than my carrier, am I being stupid or rational?


In RL you'd have to worry about carry-costs like warehousing, upkeep, maintenance, security, etc. But ships can be stored in their hangers indefinitely with no further carry-costs, so a rational actor optimally is only liable for sunk costs (time and materials, basically). So you either sell when a profit can be had, or you dump the asset at a loss because you need the capital for other investments.
Ginger Barbarella
#12 - 2012-08-14 18:25:35 UTC
Got a new alt at perfect reprocessing (Scrap Metal 5, station take zero), so I plan to start watching for and buying large ships below mineral cost to reproc and sell just for grins. FYI: haven't seen a single large ship below mineral cost in months. Not sure where OP has seen them, but I'd like to know so I can go make some isk.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Velicitia
XS Tech
#13 - 2012-08-14 19:38:37 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Got a new alt at perfect reprocessing (Scrap Metal 5, station take zero), so I plan to start watching for and buying large ships below mineral cost to reproc and sell just for grins. FYI: haven't seen a single large ship below mineral cost in months. Not sure where OP has seen them, but I'd like to know so I can go make some isk.



probably looking at raw price from sell orders, or not taking into account ME levels across the board...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#14 - 2012-08-14 19:43:40 UTC
Sigras wrote:
i have never seen cap ships sell below cost. . . in fact ive never seen anything sell below cost for very long in high sec . . .


Thats funny because I see battleships and battle cruisers sold below cost all the time...
Gaius Fabricius
3M Sinq Laison
#15 - 2012-08-14 21:26:05 UTC
Fortwunny wrote:
Personally, I'm too damn lazy to sell minerals via sell orders. Too much competition desperate to stay on top of the game.
Trying to sell off a massive stock of minerals might take a while.

But if I can shove them all into a few built items and then sell those items for at mineral sell cost, I have effectively just sold all my mins at sell price without having to deal with market whores.

Fuel blocks for example.

The price of an fuel block never drops below the cost of the bits to build it via stuff bought from sell orders.

If I buy all the PI materials and use my own ice for the rest, I can effectively sell my ice products in the fuel at their equivalent sell price without much hassle, like dealing with multiple types of sell orders, or a volatile jita market.


Interesting :)
Dunno if this works or not, but that is an awesome way to dump minerals on the market :)