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What would happen if Null Sec had no Local?
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2012-08-13 20:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Big Bossu wrote:
because for the individual and the for the corporation, there really isn't risk in the game.

Except, of course, for getting dropped, getting blown up, getting permacamped into a station, having all your assets trapped in said station, have all your assets in a JF blown up etc.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#182 - 2012-08-13 20:35:14 UTC
Big Bossu wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Big Bossu wrote:
Andski wrote:
Big Bossu wrote:
getting dropped - local

blown up - local


yes local magically prevents all of that by automatically warping you to the station when something enters system


It does. Am i wrong?

Yup.


Ever jumped into a hostile carebear system as a scout?

That is what happens from the carebear pov:

1. Neut/Red in local.
2. Warp to station or pos.

Or fail to pay attention and get blown up. Smile

MinerBumping.com
Terajima Kazumi
Perkone
Caldari State
#183 - 2012-08-13 20:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Terajima Kazumi
Local isn't perfect, but having to spam D-scam every second any time you're in space is a terrible mechanic. Anyone that finds that fun is masochistic, and anyone that thinks that forcing that on nullsec dwellers will make nullsec more fun or encourage more people to come to nullsec is an idiot.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#184 - 2012-08-13 20:42:56 UTC
Andski wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Andski wrote:
Nullsecers would simply move PvE alts to hisec to run incursions (which are risk-free and provide similar levels of income to nullsec.) Nothing else would change, short of nullsec being largely quiet when nobody is forming up for a big timer.


"Risk- free"? Shocked

Were you able to keep a straight face when you typed that? I shouldn't need to remind you that EVE has risk involved every time you hit the undock button.


yeah uh nobody can say with a straight face that there is any significant risk involved in hisec incursion running


Ohhh, that's why people solo them.

John Hancock
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2012-08-13 20:44:11 UTC
risk = the ability to solo
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2012-08-13 20:44:15 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Andski wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Andski wrote:
Nullsecers would simply move PvE alts to hisec to run incursions (which are risk-free and provide similar levels of income to nullsec.) Nothing else would change, short of nullsec being largely quiet when nobody is forming up for a big timer.


"Risk- free"? Shocked

Were you able to keep a straight face when you typed that? I shouldn't need to remind you that EVE has risk involved every time you hit the undock button.


yeah uh nobody can say with a straight face that there is any significant risk involved in hisec incursion running


Ohhh, that's why people solo them.

That's a p. bad strawman.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#187 - 2012-08-13 20:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimmy Gunsmythe
Terajima Kazumi wrote:
Local isn't perfect, but having to spam D-scam every second any time you're in space is a terrible mechanic. Anyone that finds that fun is masochistic, and anyone that thinks that forcing that on nullsec dwellers will make nullsec more fun or encourage more people to come to nullsec is an idiot.


You should probably already be doing that anyways, so how would removing local change any of that?

Lord Zim wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Ohhh, that's why people solo them.

That's a p. bad strawman.


So is saying that there is no risk involved in them.

I must really be bored...

John Hancock
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#188 - 2012-08-13 20:47:00 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
What would happen if Null Sec's local were removed and made like WH space?

1. Would it effect the big alliances? Sovereignty?
2. How would it change fleet combat? What fleet combat tatics would change?
3. How would it change small gang/solo combat? Would small gang tatics change?
4. How would it effect hot drops and capital ship combat?
5. Would null sec be more fun or less fun? Would it attract more players or less players?

yk

Assuming there are no substitutes to local involved
1. In what sense? will it directly affect sovereignty and power projection? it might. will it affect morale? yes, definitely.
2. Both hunters and the hunted will be having a lot harder time to find engagements, in big fleet combat, it will practically ruin most if not everything.
3. Definitely. I enjoy smallgang roams. Local provides opportunity and a quick assessment of what I'm about to face, should we go on and fight? or should we bail or move on to the next RP?
4. A lot, it might make things easier for larger nullsec entities to defend their sov or the other way around.
5. null sec would be dead. I'm going to speculate that most pve alts would move to highsec instead, because that's what I would do, hence, no ratters to hunt down anymore. I would also suspect that a lot of people won't be bothered to do roams anymore, I know I wouldn't.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Terajima Kazumi
Perkone
Caldari State
#189 - 2012-08-13 21:13:23 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Terajima Kazumi wrote:
Local isn't perfect, but having to spam D-scam every second any time you're in space is a terrible mechanic. Anyone that finds that fun is masochistic, and anyone that thinks that forcing that on nullsec dwellers will make nullsec more fun or encourage more people to come to nullsec is an idiot.


You should probably already be doing that anyways, so how would removing local change any of that?

Why would you D-scan all the time when half of null is totally empty and when the space you're living in will usually only have blues in it (I'm assuming the latter to be true, I make all my ISK via market PvP so I only undock in null to PvP and don't actually know what it's like to rat/mine/whatever in null)? D-scan is only used when you're in a system with neuts/reds or when neuts/reds show up in your space.
Big Bossu
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#190 - 2012-08-13 21:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Big Bossu
Lord Zim wrote:
Big Bossu wrote:
because for the individual and the for the corporation, there really isn't risk in the game.

Except, of course, for getting dropped, getting blown up, getting permacamped into a station, having all your assets trapped in said station, have all your assets in a JF blown up etc.


I am going to repeat:

getting dropped and blown up: oh, wait I warped to SS the moment I saw you in local!

getting assets trapped: If EVE had destructible outposts, no npc 0.0 stations within 1 capital jump of the majority of 0.0, no alts, no outpost timers, no capital hauling, no JFs.. you would have a point.



Lord Zim wrote:

Dangerous to idiots, sure. Sucks to be them.

I'm going to interpret your evasion such that you actually do believe that people glare at local for hours on end while doing such exciting things as mining or shooting red crosses, and never for a second take their eyes off of local, and as such never, ever get caught by roaming gangs.



Yeah, keep quoting anecdotal evidence, I will do the same.

"Highsec LVL4s are dangerous for CNRs, don't nerf them!"

No, I don't think the 0.0 space needs nerfs now. But when goons get what they want(highsec nerf), you really shouldn't let 0.0 space stay as safe as it is now.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#191 - 2012-08-13 22:00:54 UTC
Confirming that nobody ever dies in 0.0 to roaming gangs while ratting and that all killmails posted to the contrary are fakes.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2012-08-13 22:02:22 UTC
Big Bossu wrote:
getting dropped and blown up: oh, wait I warped to SS the moment I saw you in local!

Except if you're not a bot and actually aren't paying attention all the time.

Big Bossu wrote:
getting assets trapped: If EVE had destructible outposts, no npc 0.0 stations within 1 capital jump of the majority of 0.0, no alts, no outpost timers, no capital hauling, no JFs.. you would have a point.

Let's ask everyone who still has tons of stuff trapped all over EVE.

Big Bossu wrote:
"Highsec LVL4s are dangerous for CNRs, don't nerf them!"

"Undocking in hisec is dangerous to all ships, don't nerf hisec!"

Big Bossu wrote:
No, I don't think the 0.0 space needs nerfs now. But when goons get what they want(highsec nerf), you really shouldn't let 0.0 space stay as safe as it is now.

The only alteration which needs to be done is either nerfing hisec, or buffing nullsec/lowsec.

If you buff nullsec, then I wouldn't be surprised if CCP ended up having to increase various taxes etc in hisec to make sure the economy doesn't get too much monetary inflation.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#193 - 2012-08-13 22:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
If null had no local.....


the RMT underworld will be shipping severed horseheads to Iceland.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2012-08-13 22:04:40 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If null had no local.....


the RMT underworld will be shipping severed horseheads to Iceland.

They'd just keep on keeping on in hisec, nbd

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2012-08-14 04:02:40 UTC
very simple EVE would die.

pretty much all of null would unsub en masse.

WH mechanics wont work with static gates and k-space fleet sizes.

any sort of PvE would literally be impossible since a gang of cloakies could kill you at any instant and you would have no idea they were even in system. nobody would go to the trouble of rapecaging and camping every single gate in a constellation anytime they wanted to mine or rat.
LilRemmy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2012-08-14 04:09:54 UTC
+1 remove local showing people in system from all of EVE.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2012-08-14 04:28:45 UTC
So many people wanting to force others to fight their PVP fit ships in PVE fits. It's sad.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#198 - 2012-08-14 04:34:59 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
[quote=Big Bossu]
The only alteration which needs to be done is either nerfing hisec, or buffing nullsec/lowsec.

If you buff nullsec, then I wouldn't be surprised if CCP ended up having to increase various taxes etc in hisec to make sure the economy doesn't get too much monetary inflation.


Why is such a buff needed? Outside of a buff to 0.0 mission running. 0.0 alliances not making enough? Don't make me laugh... You can already make significantly more doing pure belt ratting in 0.0 then you can in hisec. Add in plexes, anoms and other exploration and you blow hisec out of the water.
Tomiko Kawase
Perkone
#199 - 2012-08-14 04:40:19 UTC
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
[quote=Big Bossu]
The only alteration which needs to be done is either nerfing hisec, or buffing nullsec/lowsec.

If you buff nullsec, then I wouldn't be surprised if CCP ended up having to increase various taxes etc in hisec to make sure the economy doesn't get too much monetary inflation.


Why is such a buff needed? Outside of a buff to 0.0 mission running. 0.0 alliances not making enough? Don't make me laugh... You can already make significantly more doing pure belt ratting in 0.0 then you can in hisec. Add in plexes, anoms and other exploration and you blow hisec out of the water.



Removing local would buff large alliance while hurting small ones. The larger the alliance the less dependence it has on small forms of income like ratting. Alliances that gain wealth through moons, renters, or other large-scale projects will suffer a lot less from a lack of local.

Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2012-08-14 07:18:29 UTC
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
Why is such a buff needed? Outside of a buff to 0.0 mission running. 0.0 alliances not making enough? Don't make me laugh... You can already make significantly more doing pure belt ratting in 0.0 then you can in hisec. Add in plexes, anoms and other exploration and you blow hisec out of the water.

You're wrong, beltratting is comparable to L4s, and L4s are significantly less risk and, just as importantly, effort. As for "why", all you have to look at is how low the general nullsec population is on a day to day basis, then compare that to how many characters supposedly stay out there, and then realize that while a significant chunk of the population is in nullsec, significantly less than 25% are active in nullsec at all times, and the ratio of active characters in hisec vs nullsec is also significantly more in hisec's favour than the statistics would account for.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat