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Time to re-balance ores yet?
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Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#1 - 2012-08-11 21:51:41 UTC
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5084/image2qls.jpg

So 3 high sec ores are better than all lowsec and nullsec ores? Most null/low ores are at the bottom? Miners in nullsec or low sec take more risks and have to deal with things like poor refining rates (not to mention station tax). Risk goes up, reward should go up.

We going to get Spod looked at? Ie Spodzilla in the hidden belts? Hard to want to flip a belt when you have to mine that crap rock for a day.

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stoicfaux
#2 - 2012-08-11 21:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Mining barehanded in the dark a mile (1.6 km) below ground in a Chinese mine for uranium is also risky, the rewards should be greater.

However, if you're trying to sell the uranium to the Japanese, what's the point?

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Skorpynekomimi
#3 - 2012-08-11 21:56:41 UTC
That's not a balancing problem, it's a market problem. Either supply or demand is skewed, and it's all too interconnected and interdependent to change on a whim.

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Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#4 - 2012-08-11 21:57:03 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Mining barehanded in the dark a mile (1.6 km) below ground in a Chinese mine for granite is also risky, the rewards should be greater.

You need to do better than that to troll my thread.

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Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-08-11 21:58:02 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
That's not a balancing problem, it's a market problem. Either supply or demand is skewed, and it's all too interconnected and interdependent to change on a whim.

Several high sec ores have been valuable than several lowsec ores for a few years now. It's a balancing problem.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-08-11 21:58:30 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
That's not a balancing problem, it's a market problem. Either supply or demand is skewed, and it's all too interconnected and interdependent to change on a whim.


But it doesnt, the prices are this way because this is what producers use and is therefor flawed by design.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#7 - 2012-08-11 22:10:09 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
That's not a balancing problem, it's a market problem. Either supply or demand is skewed, and it's all too interconnected and interdependent to change on a whim.

I disagree. I understand that trit prices go up when there are large wars, but there have been large wars before and it stayed relatively steady. With the removal of drone poo and lowering high-sec mod drops from rats, the supply has completely changed.

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Doddy
Excidium.
#8 - 2012-08-11 22:13:27 UTC
Ores have been unbalanced since the day ccp introduced cap ships, it is nothing new.
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#9 - 2012-08-11 22:19:09 UTC
If nobody mines high sec, it becomes rare, valuable... working as intended. You can still mine veldspar in 0.0... and hulkageddon free

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Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-08-11 22:19:35 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5084/image2qls.jpg

So 3 high sec ores are better than all lowsec and nullsec ores? Most null/low ores are at the bottom? Miners in nullsec or low sec take more risks and have to deal with things like poor refining rates (not to mention station tax). Risk goes up, reward should go up.


If nullsec/lowsec mining was more risky they wouldn't have mined their ore prices into the basement.

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Pilna Vcelka
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-11 22:31:37 UTC
Not a "balancing" issue, its free market.

We couldnt possibly have a clearer proof into the "highsec vs. nullbrosec risk/reward" discussion.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#12 - 2012-08-11 22:36:58 UTC
One must remember what the risk is in null.Its not a moment to moment type of risk, risk that at any moment you could be attacked. Its that your alliance could fail or your space be taken, and you will lose your home.

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Cadfael Maelgwyn
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-08-11 22:53:16 UTC
I blame reprocessed loot from hisec missions for this.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#14 - 2012-08-11 23:09:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Zifrian wrote:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5084/image2qls.jpg

So 3 high sec ores are better than all lowsec and nullsec ores? Most null/low ores are at the bottom? Miners in nullsec or low sec take more risks and have to deal with things like poor refining rates (not to mention station tax). Risk goes up, reward should go up.

We going to get Spod looked at? Ie Spodzilla in the hidden belts? Hard to want to flip a belt when you have to mine that crap rock for a day.


I don't get what the problem is. You need both high sec and null sec mining to build effectively. You can't get any zydrine/megacyte in high sec - at least not in quantity for manufacturing. And you have a hard time getting the tritanium and pyerite you need in nullsec, even if you're swimming in megacyte and zydrine. If you have miners in both regions, you are all set for manufacturing.

Ahh, if you are mining for isk, well, then you're someone else's little biatch and you get paid what the market says you get paid.

As for risk, there is very little risk mining in null sec. Possibly no more than in high sec. Oh there's inconvenience, but not risk. If there is, then you're in the wrong region or the wrong alliance. Police your space better and the risk will sort itself out. So I don't buy the risk part of your argument.

And the giant spod rock, I've mined it myself. Get more miners. Or, considering it's only in the small belt, perhaps you need to have more than one industrial system, and stagger the belts It doesn't take long at all to get industry 1, and the upgrade is cheap and small. Of course if you're just a renter then you won't be able to afford several mining systems...
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#15 - 2012-08-11 23:12:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
This has been discussed before.

The simple version: (a) nullsec is safer, and miners in nullsec are differently rational* than miners in hisec, and (b) Scordite is a bottleneck due to the demand for pyerite.

*by differently rational I mean they make rational choices based on different economic pressures. What makes obvious sense to a hisec miner will sound like economic suicide to a nullsec miner. My original wording was "less rational" which made it sound like I was deprecating nullsec miners.

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Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#16 - 2012-08-11 23:15:58 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
This has been discussed before.

The simple version: (a) nullsec is safer, and miners in nullsec are less rational than miners in hisec, and (b) Scordite is a bottleneck due to the demand for pyerite.


Not sure I agree. I find in my manufacturing that the bottleneck tends to be mexallon. Maybe it depends on what you're making. As for nullsec being safer - it is. But it's not magically safer. We MAKE it safer.
Bustur Cherry
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-08-11 23:20:54 UTC
I like it yo.
Frying Doom
#18 - 2012-08-11 23:23:28 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
That's not a balancing problem, it's a market problem. Either supply or demand is skewed, and it's all too interconnected and interdependent to change on a whim.

I disagree. I understand that trit prices go up when there are large wars, but there have been large wars before and it stayed relatively steady. With the removal of drone poo and lowering high-sec mod drops from rats, the supply has completely changed.

The low prices for ores are due to the amounts being mined nothing else.

Quote:
CCP Soundwave showed some statistics about mining since the drone regions changed and Hulkageddon. Mining in high sec is slightly up, low sec is way up and null sec is way, way up based on volume of ore.


So it is the number of people mining the same types that is your problem, not one inherit to the minerals them selves.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-08-11 23:26:45 UTC
I have a chart with a suggested set of changed values:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av49RIDL-V7zdHNyVzQxOGRUVDZDeUc3czVsN0dJVVE#gid=4

The high-end ores need lots of low end minerals to ensure their value.

Drox
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#20 - 2012-08-11 23:32:48 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
I have a chart with a suggested set of changed values:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av49RIDL-V7zdHNyVzQxOGRUVDZDeUc3czVsN0dJVVE#gid=4

The high-end ores need lots of low end minerals to ensure their value.

Drox


But that would mean that null sec miners would never have to grab trit from high sec, and single-handedly you would destroy the very healthy trade that goes on between the regions (not to mention the profits of the low sec gangs that live from what they intercept of this trade). If I think only as a null sec industrialist, this would be a wonderful change for me. But in terms of game balance - blech.
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