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The X'th thread about low sec

Author
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#1 - 2012-08-11 18:44:21 UTC
Well, i no longer live in low sec, but the problems still remain the same.

There really is no "logical" reason why anyone would live in low sec tbh. The only ones living in low sec these days are masochistic souls still dreaming about the old days. (or young FW players that dont know any better P )
There is nothing special about low sec, that you cant find other places in eve that are more secure.

Faction warfare was supposed to bring new life to low sec, but in most ways it failed horribly, though it did add a isk grinding machine for those flying frigs.
You can ask most pirates out there, and you will find that the biggest nerf to low sec pvp, and 0,0 for that matter, was warp to 0.
In 0,0 that could be fixed by the use of bubbles, but in low sec there is quite simply no such thing, and it makes travels a hell of a lot safer then it should have been.
Jumpfreighters also played a large part in killing off low sec. (for those that dont understand this point, then tough luck)

Sentry guns are as allways quite annoying for pirates, and they are actually a great asset for those trying to fight pirates solo. However sentry guns also ruin the chance of using frig size ships in camps or roams (as u will have to wait 15min between every damn kill before leaving a system if u fly one of those ships).

CCP even managed to nerf the damn docking range on a lot of the stations, making this game even more secure. And im sorry, but this is low sec, its not supposed to be secure.

Since you can get all minerals in 0,0 there is no need to mine in low sec anymore. I still remember seeing large mining fleets in low sec back in the days, guarded by battleship fleets and capitals.

What low sec needs is something only found there, and it needs to be worth fighting over.
Moving Mercoxit or Zydrine to a asteroid only found in low sec systems would go a long way in repopulating low sec. Low sec alliances would once again have a role to play in this game, and 0,0 alliances would possibly do ventures into low sec as well.

Pirate factions should be represented in low sec as well, with their own systems and regions, where only outlaws could dock in their stations Pirate
Personally i would love to see more regions like solitude in this game, or low sec regions surrounding every high sec empire.

I've allways loved low sec, though i have no f'ing clue why. But i would love to see those parts of eve space rich on players again.



GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.

Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-08-11 18:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
I agree with the last bit of your post about resources that can only be found in lowsec, regions like solitude being awesome, etc.

The rest of it, not so much. Yes those changes made things harder to kill, but IMO the focus needs to be on bringing the risk/reward up to snuff with a serious lowsec buff and a minor highsec nerf.

EDIT: A reply to one of James' points below mine: I've heard a proposal that you could only drop to -5 for actions occurring in lowsec, and below -5 for suicide ganks in highsec. I think it strikes a good balance between actions having consequences and reducing the rat grind up from -10 (although they could change the sec status gain system instead). It also makes a lot of sense since currently killing some guy in .1 space far from the reaches of concord is roughly equivalent to blowing away people right in front of their noses.
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#3 - 2012-08-11 18:49:33 UTC
My ideas for improving lowsec would be:

1. Give a boost to lowsec ore/rats while giving a nerf to highsec ore/rats.
2. Remove sec status penalty for all actions occurring in lowsec.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-08-11 18:51:09 UTC
ArmyOfMe wrote:
Well, i no longer live in low sec, but the problems still remain the same.

There really is no "logical" reason why anyone would live in low sec tbh. The only ones living in low sec these days are masochistic souls still dreaming about the old days. (or young FW players that dont know any better P )
There is nothing special about low sec, that you cant find other places in eve that are more secure.

Faction warfare was supposed to bring new life to low sec, but in most ways it failed horribly, though it did add a isk grinding machine for those flying frigs.
You can ask most pirates out there, and you will find that the biggest nerf to low sec pvp, and 0,0 for that matter, was warp to 0.
In 0,0 that could be fixed by the use of bubbles, but in low sec there is quite simply no such thing, and it makes travels a hell of a lot safer then it should have been.
Jumpfreighters also played a large part in killing off low sec. (for those that dont understand this point, then tough luck)

Sentry guns are as allways quite annoying for pirates, and they are actually a great asset for those trying to fight pirates solo. However sentry guns also ruin the chance of using frig size ships in camps or roams (as u will have to wait 15min between every damn kill before leaving a system if u fly one of those ships).

CCP even managed to nerf the damn docking range on a lot of the stations, making this game even more secure. And im sorry, but this is low sec, its not supposed to be secure.

Since you can get all minerals in 0,0 there is no need to mine in low sec anymore. I still remember seeing large mining fleets in low sec back in the days, guarded by battleship fleets and capitals.

What low sec needs is something only found there, and it needs to be worth fighting over.
Moving Mercoxit or Zydrine to a asteroid only found in low sec systems would go a long way in repopulating low sec. Low sec alliances would once again have a role to play in this game, and 0,0 alliances would possibly do ventures into low sec as well.

Pirate factions should be represented in low sec as well, with their own systems and regions, where only outlaws could dock in their stations Pirate
Personally i would love to see more regions like solitude in this game, or low sec regions surrounding every high sec empire.

I've allways loved low sec, though i have no f'ing clue why. But i would love to see those parts of eve space rich on players again.




One side says 'make it less risky', the other says 'make it more rewarding'. It is obvious that the risk/reward is not right or these types of threads wouldn't exist. Whether they need to fix it with less risk or more reward is debatable.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#5 - 2012-08-11 18:58:58 UTC
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:

One side says 'make it less risky', the other says 'make it more rewarding'. It is obvious that the risk/reward is not right or these types of threads wouldn't exist. Whether they need to fix it with less risk or more reward is debatable.

Low Sec shouldnt be less risky, risk wise it should stay as it is now. Filled by the low life scum of eve that refuse to join the 0,0 warfare. But it really needs added stuff on the reward side, as there is no logical reason to even consider going to low sec these days.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.

Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#6 - 2012-08-11 19:09:32 UTC
Interesting. Nerf Null to boost Low without touching High.

I expect people posting "go to null". Then we could talk about lack of NPC stations on most null regions and whine about bubbles.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"

ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#7 - 2012-08-11 19:17:42 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Interesting. Nerf Null to boost Low without touching High.

Im gonna be honest enough to say that i feel earning isk in this game is to easy in most aspects.
And im not really looking to nerf the income of high sec mission runners, or 0,0 ratters. I quite simply want to remove one income from 0,0 and high sec, and move it to low sec.
The isk income for most players would still be exactly the same as before.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.

Jantunen the Infernal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-08-11 19:59:36 UTC
Give highsec a whack from the good ol' nerfbat and lowsec will start to rise in population once again. Currently it's just pointless to even go there when you get similar ISK in highsec but with much, much less risk.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-08-11 20:06:07 UTC
What does lowsec offer that highsec, nullsec and wormholes do not?
It's also the least safe of all four areas of space.
High risk + Low reward = broken aspect of the game.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-08-11 20:24:41 UTC
Jantunen the Infernal wrote:
Give highsec a whack from the good ol' nerfbat and lowsec will start to rise in population once again. Currently it's just pointless to even go there when you get similar ISK in highsec but with much, much less risk.


Clearly this is the answer, as moving L5s to Losec demonstrated so wonderfully...

Hows my posting? Call 1-800-747-7633 to leave feedback.

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-08-11 21:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Smohq Anmirorz
ArmyOfMe wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:

One side says 'make it less risky', the other says 'make it more rewarding'. It is obvious that the risk/reward is not right or these types of threads wouldn't exist. Whether they need to fix it with less risk or more reward is debatable.

Low Sec shouldnt be less risky, risk wise it should stay as it is now. Filled by the low life scum of eve that refuse to join the 0,0 warfare. But it really needs added stuff on the reward side, as there is no logical reason to even consider going to low sec these days.


Not everyone thinks that way or wants to play the game the same way you do, so I don't know if you can objectively say what "should" or "shouldn't" be regarding low sec. It is your opinion and it is debatable either way.
Pilna Vcelka
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-08-11 22:40:58 UTC
I spend a lot of time in high-sec and I vote for making low-sec more interesting as I personally dont see any reasons to go there myself (might aswell skip it and go for 0.0/WH instead).

Moving some of the ore exclusively to low-sec may help, making some types of modules exclusive to low-sec rat drops aswell.
Syphon Lodian
Fabled Enterprises
#13 - 2012-08-11 22:53:34 UTC
I agree with your suggestion that they should add a mineral only available in lo-sec.

Since they're doing mining changes, now would be a good time to do it. We haven't seen the last of the mining changes either.. we're looking at Cruiser-class tiericide, and Battlecruiser-class tiericide. Both of which may get a new mining class ship as they adjust the tiers.

There is also the "Ring Mining" thing, that we may see next year.

In my opinion, now would be the best time to add something like T3 weapons that require the harvesting of a new mineral to construct. Throw in a new asteroid, make it unavailable in Hi-Sec, and very very scarce in Null and W-Space. It should be abundant in Lo-Sec.

This would unequivocally guarantee a breath of life being added to Lo-sec.

There is also the matter of Dust 514 integration, we have no idea the extent to which it goes other than it will be on planets in every single system in K-Space. Maybe there will be "special" planets in Lo-Sec only? Seems unlikely, but you never know.
Big Bossu
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2012-08-11 23:14:22 UTC
Lowsec should stay as it is, the gate gun changes are reasonable and only help to get new players into lowsec.

LVL5s, lowsec exploration and FW - all these provide decent isk boost from highsec. I really cannot see the need to add more.

Having epic easy logistics such free stations, ~10j from market hubs, no sov bills, no poses - all these reasons make it very easy to argue against making lowsec some uber space.

Before adding any type of lowsec mineral, you should have a good look at the 0.0 mineral prices.

Capital hauling is a larger problem - and something should be done to add more risk to it, and to force more traffic through lowsec.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#15 - 2012-08-12 01:24:12 UTC
Big Bossu wrote:

Having epic easy logistics such free stations, ~10j from market hubs, no sov bills, no poses - all these reasons make it very easy to argue against making lowsec some uber space.

Im in no way trying to make low sec some uber space. I am however trying to come up with a good reason for the continued survival of low sec as a key part of this game. And lets face it, FW did not do the trick, at least not at its current state.
And lets face it, the sov bills in 0,0 is paid for by moon minerals, and if it wasnt then you wouldnt be fighting over them.

High end low sec moons are pretty much all in the hands of large 0,0 alliances, wich has caused one more income to leave the low sec residents.
A single mineral, only found in low sec, would not crash the economical balance in eve, but it would force some corps/alliances to take a step over to low sec. You would once again see parts of low sec filled with life.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.

Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#16 - 2012-08-12 02:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpymunky
I think the lowsec inhabitants have the ability to make it more interesting and less risky for other players to get into.
Instead they kill everything that moves, and complain that no one goes there any more.

I've even heard them on comms in a gatecamp saying lowsec needs a boost of some kind, but all their suggestions were ways to make it easier to kill the few people who still go there that have actually managed to survive thus far.

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.

Bullz3y3
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-08-12 02:19:24 UTC
When will everyone learn that forcing players to do something DOES NOT work? They will just find a way around it or do something else up to quitting the game if its to draconian.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#18 - 2012-08-12 04:00:19 UTC
OUTLAW support a lowsec buff that is actually about the people of lowsec, not about trying to make it safer for everyone else.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#19 - 2012-08-12 04:04:42 UTC
I do have to ask: Why is low sec still more dangerous than null?
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#20 - 2012-08-12 04:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Lilianna Star wrote:
I do have to ask: Why is low sec still more dangerous than null?


Because the shortest path between Rens and Jita doesn't take you through nullsec?

EDIT: speaking of which, let me share a horrible idea that I just had:

Add four 'reinforced unstable wormholes' to Jita, linking it to Amarr, Rens, Dodixie, with celestial beacons. These wormholes don't go away, but they catapult you to a random location within a constant C1 system in w-space (so, the Jita-Amarr w-system is always the same Jita-Amarr w-system). These wormholes are normal in all respects except for having two beaconed 'reinforced unstable wormholes' in them to the trade hubs that they connect, which have the same catapulting behavior even though it's much less useful going wh>highsec.

So the shortest path between Jita and these systems is always 2 jumps long. Go to the wormhole, then go to the other wormhole in the w-system, then dock at the trade station.

That's the extent of the idea.

Since w-space has bubbles and since you still have to fly to a known spot to get through, this is still going to be hellish for traders. The idea of the catapulting behavior is just to make it hellish rather than totalhelldeath, with **** like permanent lowsec doomsdays at the entry.
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