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Dear CCP - EvE-sourced dollars and potential Dust failcascade

First post
Author
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#141 - 2012-08-10 19:28:25 UTC
I scoffed at the decision to put out a console shooter for a niche game like eve, but seeing the longevity of the Left for Dead community on xbox has given me some small hope that this will actually fly longterm. My wife's been playing LFD2 for a bloody long time now, and that community is still going. Valve even just added more content to it.
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#142 - 2012-08-10 19:32:07 UTC
I would like to be able to contract a DUST mercenary to walk into an EVE station, break into somebody else's headquarters and shoot him in the head.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"

Syler Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
#143 - 2012-08-10 19:35:46 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
I scoffed at the decision to put out a console shooter for a niche game like eve, but seeing the longevity of the Left for Dead community on xbox has given me some small hope that this will actually fly longterm. My wife's been playing LFD2 for a bloody long time now, and that community is still going. Valve even just added more content to it.


One word....Zombies.

If Dust was about zombies then it would have a chance of longevity. /sarcasm

Seriously CCP don't add zombies, talk about an over saturated market.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#144 - 2012-08-10 19:40:50 UTC
James 315 wrote:
I thought CCP's stated goal with Dust was to reach an audience as different from EVE's current playerbase as possible. One of them said something like that during the Alliance Tournament, anyway.


Actually never thought of it that way. So you're saying Dust will introduce EVE to players who would otherwise have never come in contact with EVE and might find out that EVE is fun to play. In a sense graduating to EVE as gamers.
If only 10% of that massive console market that will play Dust would transfer to EVE and become subscribers we might be all in for a golden age.

Thank you for giving me hope where I saw none _o_ :).

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.

Majestic Twilight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#145 - 2012-08-10 20:27:50 UTC
IMO while I think dust 514 is a cool idea. I just don't think it will last given the longevity of console games as ppl are are always looking for the next game. I wish the money that went into dust went more to WOD instead.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#146 - 2012-08-10 20:33:42 UTC
Radius Prime wrote:
James 315 wrote:
I thought CCP's stated goal with Dust was to reach an audience as different from EVE's current playerbase as possible. One of them said something like that during the Alliance Tournament, anyway.


Actually never thought of it that way. So you're saying Dust will introduce EVE to players who would otherwise have never come in contact with EVE and might find out that EVE is fun to play. In a sense graduating to EVE as gamers.
If only 10% of that massive console market that will play Dust would transfer to EVE and become subscribers we might be all in for a golden age.

Thank you for giving me hope where I saw none _o_ :).


I have a lot of friends who play consoles, with a few exceptions most of them would have to buy a computer to play EvE. The computers they have are mostly ****** and old and they are more interested in buying an iPad than a new PC in 2012.

Also btw not one person I know plays on PS, all XBox users, I would like to play Dust but if I was going to buy a console I would go xBox so I could play with my friends.

I'm an American, English is my second language...

Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#147 - 2012-08-10 20:43:24 UTC
Postin to confirm that CCP did not do any market research at all.

















Security guy who works at Reykjavik office told me
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#148 - 2012-08-10 20:45:06 UTC
Eve = SPACE SHIPS serious stuff.

Nothing else matters

brb

Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#149 - 2012-08-10 21:03:06 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Radius Prime wrote:
James 315 wrote:
I thought CCP's stated goal with Dust was to reach an audience as different from EVE's current playerbase as possible. One of them said something like that during the Alliance Tournament, anyway.


Actually never thought of it that way. So you're saying Dust will introduce EVE to players who would otherwise have never come in contact with EVE and might find out that EVE is fun to play. In a sense graduating to EVE as gamers.
If only 10% of that massive console market that will play Dust would transfer to EVE and become subscribers we might be all in for a golden age.

Thank you for giving me hope where I saw none _o_ :).


I have a lot of friends who play consoles, with a few exceptions most of them would have to buy a computer to play EvE. The computers they have are mostly ****** and old and they are more interested in buying an iPad than a new PC in 2012.

Also btw not one person I know plays on PS, all XBox users, I would like to play Dust but if I was going to buy a console I would go xBox so I could play with my friends.


I personally own an Xbox ,WII and PS3. I am guessing you are American? Having both lived in the US and Europe and raising kids in both places I can tell you with confidence that Xbox is by far the most popular console in the US. In Europe (CCPs home) however PS3 owns the market. None of my adult friends own an Xbox. Everyone is into PS3. Especially the non subscription network speaks to them. Of course my American raised son pulled up his nose for PS3 when he arrived but still had to get him one because all of his school friends played PS3 :).

As for pcs , they are dirtcheap these days and will be getting cheaper. With new,cheap high performance IVY bridge cpus just been released anyone can play eve easy , even on a laptop. This will not be the breaking point If people have a genuine interest intrying Eve online. I also wasn't suggesting immediate return. Was talking more about in 2 years when they tire out of fpses and such.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.

Xervish Krin
Intaki Fine Stationery Solutions
#150 - 2012-08-10 21:05:16 UTC
Jesus Christ. CCP does not owe your subscription money back to you in the form of content. The deal is you pay and in return get to play their game. I like Assassin's Creed. I don't throw a fit whenever they put my precious AC money to use on another game I'm not interested in. But they could be spending that money on the next AC and make it better! How dare they not cater exclusively to what I like? People seem to think that because CCP interacts with hem more than other companies that CCP somehow owes them more than other businesses too.
Devious Relation
Obsessive Compulsive Disasters
#151 - 2012-08-10 21:09:38 UTC
I have already moved onto a new game... World of Warcraft... after 6 years avoiding it its actualy dare i say it... good?What?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2012-08-10 21:12:56 UTC
This thread seems to be full of people who think throwing money at EVE will automatically generate better content.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Syler Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
#153 - 2012-08-10 21:15:17 UTC
Devious Relation wrote:
I have already moved onto a new game... World of Warcraft... after 6 years avoiding it its actualy dare i say it... good?What?


It wouldn't have survived as long as it has or have as many subs if it wasn't good for some people. Its all based off of playstyle and personal opinion.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2012-08-10 21:18:35 UTC
Devious Relation wrote:
I have already moved onto a new game... World of Warcraft... after 6 years avoiding it its actualy dare i say it... good?What?

Congrats for finding a game you like and playing it. Nothing wrong with that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

M14D
Avis Investment Group
#155 - 2012-08-10 21:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: M14D
Denidil wrote:
So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust.


Protip: You pay CCP monthly to be able to play the game. If they decide to re-invest their income into another game, which OMYGOSH has been happening throughoutthe entire industry since early dawn, then that's their business.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#156 - 2012-08-10 22:02:37 UTC
Devious Relation wrote:
I have already moved onto a new game... World of Warcraft... after 6 years avoiding it its actualy dare i say it... good?What?


I've actually done the other way around but I must tell you, they're just different but both are just awesome if you find your fun.

Try shadow priest, extreme complex game play but when you master it you're the king of the hill (those are extremely rare)

brb

Mindseamstress
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
#157 - 2012-08-10 23:26:34 UTC
Ten Bulls wrote:
Denidil wrote:

How many years until Dust pays for itself and we EvE players see the money come back to EvE?



If you love something its not uncommon to feel responsible for it, but it makes you feel like an owner then your too close.

CCP is a corporation, corporations dont give money back.




That's right, but this situation is one where there is a much more symbiotic relationship between the company and the customer base. CCP's intentions for Eve and its likelihood of reinvesting resources in the game pretty much dictate how much time you as an Eve player will want to invest playing and whether or not you will keep on paying the subscription. Most Eve players take a very long term view on the game and spend much time building up corporations, social networks and alliances. If you think the expansion and continuous enhancement of a game is in jeopardy, you will probably stop doing that, go on a last PvP spree and then unsub.
Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#158 - 2012-08-10 23:29:25 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
[...]I know over 50 people that will be on dust[...]


There are enough people out there that will give it a try. The market for multiplayer console FPS is very good indeed.

However, Microsoft has a shitton of rules and stuff that would make releasing DUST on both the PS3 and XBOX impossible. Having to pay for their service is one thing. People won't pay for a service just so they can play a free MMO, because that is stupid.

This is why the game will be launched as a PS3 exclusive

XxRTEKxX wrote:
half don't even own ps3s and plan to buy one just becaus of dust.


And this is why they are saying it will be a PS3 exclusive. Sony more than encourages developers to claim "exclusivity" just so people will buy the PS3's, and everyone knows this. If CCP announced DUST both for the PS3 and for the PC, then pretty much nobody would buy a PS3 just to play DUST.


I can't know this, but i am pretty sure that CCP has a contract clause with Sony where it is described for how long CCP needs to keep DUST as a PS3 exclusive title. And even if no such clause exists, as soon as DUST begins to stumble on ths PS3 then CCP will port it to the PC.

So yeah, it'll be on the PC, don't fret. It is just a matter of time.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#159 - 2012-08-11 00:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Denidil wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


It's a pretty easy assumption to make based on the half baked conclusions you have made in your posts. Smile


yeah.. because the observed player retention patterns of past console FPS games, and the observed % of players who actually spend in a cash store are "half baked conclusions".


i certainly don't know everything about the gaming world, which is why i hope i am wrong and they have a good reason to think they'll buck the trend.

but if you absolutely have no ******* idea what you're talking about. shut up, adults are talking.


You should already realize why "observed player retention" metrics of your typical FPS game has little or no bearing on the target audience for DUST, the underlying architecture and design principals are radically different from the titles you are (supposedly) drawing your assumptions from.

There is a huge amount of information becoming available for DUST and it's design model, with analysis being done by a number of noteworthy entities in the gaming industry... many of whom are coming up with similar prototypes that we will llikely see released over the next couple of years.

Is this something of a gamble?

Yes, radical advances in an established industry are always a gamble.

Are the odds for success good?

Considering the gameplay available in the Beta, DUSTS persistent nature, free to play with frequent free downloadable updates, and the huge groundswell of excitement and interest among the leaders of the gaming industry... I'd say the odds are better than average. Smile


dust is more similar to all previous FPSes than it is different. asserting that previous FPS's player retention is irrelevant is simply bullshit.

and i have seen no huge outswell of enthusiasm from anyone but insiders. at the local game store nobody there had even heard of EvE or Dust - and i live in the greater seattle area!


As to your first point, it's pretty obvious you haven't played it. Yes, you shoot guns and can drive vehicles... that's where any similarity ends. In all other aspects DUST is unique.

As to the rest, every gaming site on the net is obsessed with it and generally giving it good to excellent reviews. I live in the midwest, and out of the 25 people in my department 4 have specifically brought it up and asked about it's connection to EVE (including the head of the dept) even though they are not players.

So I'm sorry but your "nobody I know is aware of it" statement really doesn't carry much weight.

You also need to understand that the financing behind DUST is not orchestrated the way most other AAA titles are. Other titles must sell millions of copies to pay off financing and pay for the development cycle of a completely new game most every year. DUST doesn't have to worry about this. It doesn't have to sell millions of copies to be a huge financial success. From a financial point of view, and a game development studio point of view, DUST is in a very, very strong position to provide a generous return on investment.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2012-08-11 01:02:55 UTC
Is it too extreme to think that Dust player data might end up different than most FPSs? CCP already has one game that defies normal trends and market logic.

Random theorycrafting on Dust longevity:

  • Dust on PC is a possibility. Targeting one platform first is a good idea because it focuses on the fundamentals, which CCP has been burned in the past for not doing.
  • If Dust is successful, maybe Microsoft will quit being so stubborn with its policies, and CCP will be the first company to advertise "360 vs PS3 gamers. Settle it here." Everyone wins.
  • Unreal Engine is very flexible. I imagine UE4 Dust on PS4 will happen eventually. Then you won't need compatibility.
  • Not sure about Vita's netplay capabilities, but full Dust on Vita seems possible. Another industry first.
  • Slow and steady is great MMO design philosophy, and I'm glad CCP is taking this approach. Dust will probably have an initial spike, then level off. But those players might come back years later to see what's new, like they do with EVE.
  • Graphics and presentation can always be polished. As long as gameplay fundamentals are there, CCP has a winner.

Disclosure: Haven't played Dust. Really want to. Glad the MAG community has somewhere to go...

Occasionally plays sober