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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

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Rico Rage
#221 - 2011-10-12 17:05:39 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:


Wow, lost my response. Here we go again... I can appreciate the thought you put into this concept, however it would greatly detract from wormhole life. Even simply being able to detect the presence of cloaked ships is a huge nerf on the whole wormhole culture and the danger inherent in the system. A big part of planning a system assault often revolves around having an unknown cloaked vessel in a target hole for days or weeks on end actively gathering intel. You may be logged on for hours sitting idly by watching a pos to determine hours of operation, active people in the hole, etc. The secrecy is key. Allowing your presence to be advertised via probe would also shift the whole paradigm such that it would become a near requirement for someone to keep these probes out constantly while any ops are going on, possibly even when they're not. This massive nerf (and it is massive, if you have any clue at all about wormhole life) is grossly unnecessary, unneeded and unwelcome.

Wormholes are the last frontiers of Eve. Anything that nerfs that needs to be fought tooth and nail.



I understand your point and agree that intel gathering should be a viable use for cloakies. I would have found it very unusual for my suggestion not to have overlooked something in a world as large as EVE.

However, you do understand the concern here though, right? If you can help come up with a solution to the AFK cloaky issue that would not affect intel gathering from active players, by all means, please offer your ideas. I do think that this is something that CCP will eventually tackle, as it is one of those tactics that requires very little investment for such a large payoff for the cloaky pilot. I think that aside from wormhole space intel gathering, the idea has merit.

I'm all for being a cloaky pilot and doing the stalking thing if you're active behind your keyboard, I'm not so cool with the "lololol I can sit here all day and you can't kill me unless I'm too dumb to know a bait ship when I see it" mechanics presently in place when a cloaky sits afk in system.

Nothing in EVE should be risk free. I'm already dissapointed that people can carebear it up in high sec, but even they risk getting blown up. Cloaky pilots should suffer the same risks for the intel/ganks they intend to gain.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#222 - 2011-10-12 17:27:47 UTC
Rico Rage wrote:

I understand your point and agree that intel gathering should be a viable use for cloakies. I would have found it very unusual for my suggestion not to have overlooked something in a world as large as EVE.

However, you do understand the concern here though, right? If you can help come up with a solution to the AFK cloaky issue that would not affect intel gathering from active players, by all means, please offer your ideas. I do think that this is something that CCP will eventually tackle, as it is one of those tactics that requires very little investment for such a large payoff for the cloaky pilot. I think that aside from wormhole space intel gathering, the idea has merit.

I'm all for being a cloaky pilot and doing the stalking thing if you're active behind your keyboard, I'm not so cool with the "lololol I can sit here all day and you can't kill me unless I'm too dumb to know a bait ship when I see it" mechanics presently in place when a cloaky sits afk in system.

Nothing in EVE should be risk free. I'm already dissapointed that people can carebear it up in high sec, but even they risk getting blown up. Cloaky pilots should suffer the same risks for the intel/ganks they intend to gain.


Well, I think this idea does it pretty well...

1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. This is balanced by #2.

2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. This makes intel gathering, while cloaked, into and active endeavour, not unlike how it currently is in wormholes. Also, while cloaked, you cannot be used as a "warp to" target. You're intentionally cutting yourself off from everyone else after all.

3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This also balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away.

It doesn't affect intel gathering in systems with local for uncloaked ships. It makes intel more interactive for cloaked vessels. It allows cloaked vessels to be truly cloaked by not having them show in local. It balances the more effective invisibility by giving opponents a little more escape time if the intent is to light a cyno or have a fleet warp on top of the cloaked vessel. It still allows the cloaked vessel itself to engage the target if it wishes without penalty.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Zynar11
Perkone
Caldari State
#223 - 2011-10-12 17:57:31 UTC
I have to say the removing the cloaker from local and adding a delay on firing off a cyno sounds like a good solution to me. Intel gathers can still do what they do and something like a 30 sec warning your about to get hot dropped sounds reasonable.
Signal11th
#224 - 2011-10-12 18:02:56 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Rico Rage wrote:

I understand your point and agree that intel gathering should be a viable use for cloakies. I would have found it very unusual for my suggestion not to have overlooked something in a world as large as EVE.

However, you do understand the concern here though, right? If you can help come up with a solution to the AFK cloaky issue that would not affect intel gathering from active players, by all means, please offer your ideas. I do think that this is something that CCP will eventually tackle, as it is one of those tactics that requires very little investment for such a large payoff for the cloaky pilot. I think that aside from wormhole space intel gathering, the idea has merit.

I'm all for being a cloaky pilot and doing the stalking thing if you're active behind your keyboard, I'm not so cool with the "lololol I can sit here all day and you can't kill me unless I'm too dumb to know a bait ship when I see it" mechanics presently in place when a cloaky sits afk in system.

Nothing in EVE should be risk free. I'm already dissapointed that people can carebear it up in high sec, but even they risk getting blown up. Cloaky pilots should suffer the same risks for the intel/ganks they intend to gain.


Well, I think this idea does it pretty well...

1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. This is balanced by #2.

2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. This makes intel gathering, while cloaked, into and active endeavour, not unlike how it currently is in wormholes. Also, while cloaked, you cannot be used as a "warp to" target. You're intentionally cutting yourself off from everyone else after all.

3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This also balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away.

It doesn't affect intel gathering in systems with local for uncloaked ships. It makes intel more interactive for cloaked vessels. It allows cloaked vessels to be truly cloaked by not having them show in local. It balances the more effective invisibility by giving opponents a little more escape time if the intent is to light a cyno or have a fleet warp on top of the cloaked vessel. It still allows the cloaked vessel itself to engage the target if it wishes without penalty.




+1 from me

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
AFK Cloaker
Matari Exodus
#225 - 2011-10-12 18:03:00 UTC
.
Dray
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#226 - 2011-10-12 18:13:32 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What bugs me about AFK cloakers is that i know they are there but i cannot find them to kill them.. i want to kill them! Boils my blood when theres a troll laughing at me and i cannot smack it in the kisser. I admit that removing local as we know it will help mitigate this.

Still have a problem with anomaly denial though... it is like i said it is. CCP cannot fix that, so they say its an "accepted tactic".

Broken Science i tell you...


Removing local will not stop AFK cloaking. That has already been talked about. We need to discuss removing the incentive to go away from the keyboard while cloaked in a hostile system.

My idea will give you the ability to uncloak the AFK cloaker then use normal probes to locate and destroy the ship. This will protect active cloakers while removing the incentive to go away from the PC.


Removing local wont stop it but it will reduce it's effectiveness, if the guy is genuinely afk but no one knows he's there then they will go about there business as if the system were empty, local is so much more a problem than afk cloakers it's not even funny.

Instant intel any time someone enters your system regardless of where you are or what you are doing, tell me that's not broke. Roll
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#227 - 2011-10-12 18:25:52 UTC
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Rhinanna wrote:
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Problem: Me and my buddies are unwilling to defend our operations in lawless space because it impedes on our profit margins.

Solution: Nerf some other doods.


Way to misquote! Well done for trying to build a strawman.

The problem isn't that it makes it less profitable or hits profit margins, the problem is that it makes null LESS profitable than hi-sec. Do you really think that is right?

The secondary problem is that it gives a very cheap and risk-free way of seriously fecking up your enemy's economics. This heavily breaks the risk vs reward that EvE is based around. More risk = More reward, except in the case of AFK cloaking.

Now please try addressing the real problems and see if you can come up with an actual answer.







You dont mine in null sec for PROFIT, you mine there for resources, and it's more convenient than relying on logistics to bring in resources from high sec. If you are unable to deal with a few enemy ships in system and cannot go next door or otherwise deal with the problem then you need to start bringing in resources from elsewhere. You may not like this but its the truth.

You don't mine—in null sec or otherwise—for PROFIT or resources. You mine because you don't realize that there are more efficient or more lucrative alternatives.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#228 - 2011-10-12 18:32:54 UTC
you dont make good posts etc

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#229 - 2011-10-12 18:33:30 UTC
Your avatar has a long neck.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#230 - 2011-10-12 19:31:44 UTC
The idea that there is no problem with afk cloaking as it is, is laughable. If someone in your system is sitting in a recon, cloaked, all you can say for certain is that he could drop an undefined number of people onto you at damn near any time he pleases, and you would get absolutely no warning of it until it's too late to react. AFK cloakers weren't really a problem before blackops came into the game, because it was blackops that turned one recon into an entire fleet, one that can't be scouted, or trapped in a system.

AFK cloakers that don't have covert cynos aren't a problem mind you, but there's really no way of knowing whether or not they do until it's too late anyway.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2011-10-12 19:37:44 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
The idea that there is no problem with afk cloaking as it is, is laughable.

Only for really, really dumb people.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#232 - 2011-10-12 19:41:28 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
The idea that there is no problem with afk cloaking as it is, is laughable. If someone in your system is sitting in a recon, cloaked, all you can say for certain is that he could drop an undefined number of people onto you at damn near any time he pleases, and you would get absolutely no warning of it until it's too late to react.

Your warning is that he is in local. All you have to do to avoid an AFK cloaker is move to a different system.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#233 - 2011-10-12 19:42:10 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
The idea that there is no problem with afk cloaking as it is, is laughable.

Only for really, really dumb people.

This is a significant portion of every human population.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#234 - 2011-10-12 19:46:01 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
The idea that there is no problem with afk cloaking as it is, is laughable. If someone in your system is sitting in a recon, cloaked, all you can say for certain is that he could drop an undefined number of people onto you at damn near any time he pleases, and you would get absolutely no warning of it until it's too late to react. AFK cloakers weren't really a problem before blackops came into the game, because it was blackops that turned one recon into an entire fleet, one that can't be scouted, or trapped in a system.

AFK cloakers that don't have covert cynos aren't a problem mind you, but there's really no way of knowing whether or not they do until it's too late anyway.


If you think an AFK cloaker can effect you then you are rather daft good sir.

They absolutely have to be at keyboard to be a threat.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#235 - 2011-10-12 19:52:52 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
The idea that there is no problem with afk cloaking as it is, is laughable. If someone in your system is sitting in a recon, cloaked, all you can say for certain is that he could drop an undefined number of people onto you at damn near any time he pleases, and you would get absolutely no warning of it until it's too late to react. AFK cloakers weren't really a problem before blackops came into the game, because it was blackops that turned one recon into an entire fleet, one that can't be scouted, or trapped in a system.

AFK cloakers that don't have covert cynos aren't a problem mind you, but there's really no way of knowing whether or not they do until it's too late anyway.


If you think an AFK cloaker can effect you then you are rather daft good sir.

They absolutely have to be at keyboard to be a threat.


anomaly denial

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#236 - 2011-10-12 19:55:58 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:


If you think an AFK cloaker can effect you then you are rather daft good sir.

They absolutely have to be at keyboard to be a threat.


anomaly denial
Which has been pointed out is a fault of the spawn mechanic, not the cloak.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#237 - 2011-10-12 19:56:58 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:


If you think an AFK cloaker can effect you then you are rather daft good sir.

They absolutely have to be at keyboard to be a threat.


anomaly denial
Which has been pointed out is a fault of the spawn mechanic, not the cloak.


Which has been pointed out as something that can be achieved while being cloaked and afk.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#238 - 2011-10-12 20:02:59 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Which has been pointed out as something that can be achieved while being cloaked and afk.
It can also be achieved while being drunk and in a Nomad.

So obviously, the problem is with alcoholic jump freighter pilots. Roll
Mag's
Azn Empire
#239 - 2011-10-12 20:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:


anomaly denial
Which has been pointed out is a fault of the spawn mechanic, not the cloak.


Which has been pointed out as something that can be achieved while being cloaked and afk.
Then request a spawn change and stop trying to link it to a cloak nerf.

Tippia edit: Beat me again. Evil

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#240 - 2011-10-12 20:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Mag's wrote:
stop trying to link it to a cloak nerf.


stop trying to convince people AFK cloakers can't do jack.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.