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Newbie ship cargo size problems make amarr cyno pilots useless, but only amarr.
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ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#21 - 2012-08-09 17:51:08 UTC
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
So I should have to bio-mass three different accounts, including a leadership alt, then go through a month of retraining on each account just so I can fly the ship I could fly before this change? Once again, why should Amarr characters be forced to do this while Gallentee, Minmatar and Caldari characters don't?


Nobody is forcing you to do any of that. Rookie ships aren't intended to be cyno ships. The difference in cargo is completely unrelated to the usage of liquid ozone for cynos. The fact that people are using rookie ships as cyno ships has NOTHING to do with the intended usage of rookie ships. It's just how things work.

If you're so poor that you can't afford to put your cyno alt in a T1 frigate, and so petty that you can't handle replacing a T1 frigate that gets blown up, maybe you should stop flying capital ships and find a new hobby.

Also, if all of your characters are Amarr, tough ****. The option is there. Either use it or suck it up and drive on.


You seem to be missing the point. "Intent" doesn't matter. Perhaps you should go look up the definition of "Sandbox". If it is possible it will be done. Using Rookie ships as cyno ships is common practice since capitals were introduced. Removing the ability to use them as such from a single race was not the intention of this change.

ISK isn't the issue. You can have lots of isk and be in a region with no ships. All your riches won't help you if there are no ships to buy. If you aren't Amarr, you can just go to ANY station and pick up a ship, if you are Amarr, you are completely trapped. Which is currently the situation that I am in. I am unable to get any of my capitals out until I bio mass my amarr characters, re-roll new NON-Amarr characters and then wait for cyno IV to train on each character.

Where the **** are the Devs in this forum???????
Miss Furry
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-08-09 18:07:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Furry
ps3ud0nym wrote:
You seem to be missing the point. "Intent" doesn't matter. Perhaps you should go look up the definition of "Sandbox". If it is possible it will be done. Using Rookie ships as cyno ships is common practice since capitals were introduced. Removing the ability to use them as such from a single race was not the intention of this change.

ISK isn't the issue. You can have lots of isk and be in a region with no ships. All your riches won't help you if there are no ships to buy. If you aren't Amarr, you can just go to ANY station and pick up a ship, if you are Amarr, you are completely trapped. Which is currently the situation that I am in. I am unable to get any of my capitals out until I bio mass my amarr characters, re-roll new NON-Amarr characters and then wait for cyno IV to train on each character.

Where the **** are the Devs in this forum???????


Have you ever heard of a side effect? Just because something isn't intended, doesn't mean it is incorrect. You don't seem to know the definition of "sandbox" yourself, as you can't even comprehend the irrelevance of such a statement. I don't know what imaginary idea of EvE you got stuck into your head, but it needs to go. Intent matters 100%. If you're that petty that buying a cargo expander while you're out buying your cyno is such a big deal, it's a wonder you aren't asking for something equally stupid, like a new ship tier specifically for lighting cynos.

And asking where the devs are in the features forum shows just how new you are, regardless of character age.

And **** Delve.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#23 - 2012-08-09 18:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Nope. If I want to use my newbie ship to cyno, I now have to either buy a new non-newbie ship in region assuming anything is avalbile that character can fly, or I have to fly it through gates to the system I need (something that no one other than Amarr has to do) and then I have to find or bring an expanded cargo hold as well. ONLY Amarr has to do this. If you are are any other race, you don't have this disadvantage.

I keep asking but no one has come up with an answer. Why should Amarr players be penalized simply for being Amarr? After these changes you would have to be a moron to make an amarr character if you intended to use it for cynoing at all. I wouldn't have made ANY of my characters Amarr had this change been done previously. This isn't something that players can go back and change unless they bio mass their characters and waste the training time, and subscription money, they spend on the character. That means any Amarr player that wants to NOT be at a disadvantage has to pay both a monetary cost and a training time cost just to get back to a even footing on a character of a different race. That is hardly fair to Amarr players.


You do realize you can fit a T1 expanded cargohold in the 2nd low slot and still use the impairor to cyno with, right? Since you have to go buy the LO and the cyno and the MAPC, I don't see why that would be an issue. Unless you didn't realize the Impairor has 2 low slots?


EDIT: I realize you pointed out the expanded cargo, but you don't seem to even realize you mentioned it, since it would take no additional effort, considering you have to go buy the other **** for it anyway......


Okay, let look at this situationally. I have gone through, over and over and over again what the issue to that solution is. Lets look at an example.

1) Minmatar cyno alt: Oh his last jump he got popped outside the station. In the station he has fuel and a cyno generator. There are no minmatar ships available in system that he can fly. In order to cyno all he has to do is dock and he will have a shiny new cyno ship. No travel required.

2) Amarr cyno Alt: On his last jump he got popped outside the station. In the station he has fuel and a cyno generator. There are no ships he can fly on the market. He looks and, oops, there are no expanded cargo holds on the market either! Looks more.. looks like there are no base skills at this station either. So now he has to travel to either pick up a ship or pick up a expanded cargo hold. That means jumping through hostile space in a rookie ship with civilian weapons (something any other race doesn't have to do in the same situation).

Now, what if that is a carrier and you need to get it into position to support your fleet? If you are the minmatar cyno alt, you can do that right away. If you are the Amarr cyno alt, you can't. You have no introduced a time delay that only effects amarr players in this situation. On top of that, the minmatar cyno alt doesn't have to pay a thing for his ship other than fuel and a cyno, where the amarr cyno alt also has to incurr the extra expense and RISK, for 0 reward.

That is a common scenario. It isn't rare. It is the situation I am in currently with my capitals. I can't jump. The nearest expanded cargo hold is 8 jumps through heavily contested space. Before the patch I could jump to my alts, today, through no action of my own, I can't. If I was any other race than Amarr, I would be able to jump right now.
Miss Furry
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-08-09 18:10:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Furry
If there aren't any cargo expanders in the station, that's not the devs' faults. Seed them yourself.

Oh jeebus. Extra expense for an expanded cargohold. You can buy 100's of cargo expanders with the money you can make from 5 minutes of any PvE activity with a carrier, let alone many ships even smaller than that. Cry me a river.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#25 - 2012-08-09 18:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Miss Furry wrote:
If there aren't any cargo expanders in the station, that's not the devs' faults. Seed them yourself.



You are a moron. I have already explained 5 times why this is bullshit. Including directly above your post. Learn to read.
Miss Furry
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-08-09 18:14:06 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Miss Furry wrote:
If there aren't any cargo expanders in the station, that's not the devs' faults. Seed them yourself.



You are a moron. I have already explained 5 times why this is bullshit. Including directly above your post. Learn to read.


No, and here's your problem. You spend too much time bullshitting in 0.0 that you've forgotten what your entitlements are.

Rookie ships with cyno capabilities centered around convenience for Amarr characters is not one of them.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#27 - 2012-08-09 18:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Miss Furry wrote:
If there aren't any cargo expanders in the station, that's not the devs' faults. Seed them yourself.



You are a moron. I have already explained 5 times why this is bullshit. Including directly above your post. Learn to read.


No, and here's your problem. You spend too much time bullshitting in 0.0 that you've forgotten what your entitlements are.

Rookie ships with cyno capabilities centered around convenience for Amarr characters is not one of them.


Then explain to me, in simple terms, why Amarr should be the ONLY race this effects? Are you honestly this stupid?

**** that. I don't care what pubbies think. I want a dev response to this post.
Miss Furry
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-08-09 18:19:25 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Then explain to me, in simple terms, why Amarr should be the ONLY race this effects? Are you honestly this stupid?


No one suggested that they SHOULD be the only race with this supposed "issue". They just ARE. Are you honestly this ******* dense? Get over it. I wonder why nobody has piped up in this thread to help you with your crusade. Don't you wonder, too?
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#29 - 2012-08-09 18:20:47 UTC
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Then explain to me, in simple terms, why Amarr should be the ONLY race this effects? Are you honestly this stupid?


No one suggested that they SHOULD be the only race with this supposed "issue". They just ARE. Are you honestly this ******* dense? Get over it. I wonder why nobody has piped up in this thread to help you with your crusade. Don't you wonder, too?



Let see.. could it be because you are a bunch of high-sec pubbies who have never flown a capital in their lives and want to punish anyone that does?
Miss Furry
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-08-09 18:29:36 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Let see.. could it be because you are a bunch of high-sec pubbies who have never flown a capital in their lives and want to punish anyone that does?


Yes, everyone who hasn't outright agreed with you thus far on the forums(quite literally every player in EvE besides yourself) is a high-sec pubbie. Even the ones who live in 0.0, ratting in their carriers, who don't complain about rookie ships that can already light cynos. And even the 178 people who have viewed this thread so far. None of them fly capitals, or light cynos, or do anything of the sort.

We're all just noobs and you're the only person in EvE who knows anything. Get over yourself, moron.

When I lived out in 0.0, I went anywhere from 2-20 jumps to get what I needed, especially when JB's were down. You aren't special. Go get a ******* cargohold or make a Minmatar character. Who in their right mind makes all Amarr characters? I have at least one of each, but maybe I just have more foresight than you do. I realized that different character factions start out with different medical clone capabilities in terms of location. Just one of the perks to paying ******* attention to what you're doing.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#31 - 2012-08-09 18:38:13 UTC
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Let see.. could it be because you are a bunch of high-sec pubbies who have never flown a capital in their lives and want to punish anyone that does?


Yes, everyone who hasn't outright agreed with you thus far on the forums(quite literally every player in EvE besides yourself) is a high-sec pubbie. Even the ones who live in 0.0, ratting in their carriers, who don't complain about rookie ships that can already light cynos. And even the 178 people who have viewed this thread so far. None of them fly capitals, or light cynos, or do anything of the sort.

We're all just noobs and you're the only person in EvE who knows anything. Get over yourself, moron.

When I lived out in 0.0, I went anywhere from 2-20 jumps to get what I needed, especially when JB's were down. You aren't special. Go get a ******* cargohold or make a Minmatar character. Who in their right mind makes all Amarr characters? I have at least one of each, but maybe I just have more foresight than you do. I realized that different character factions start out with different medical clone capabilities in terms of location. Just one of the perks to paying ******* attention to what you're doing.



so far, the majority of the posts have been from you. And you are obviously mentally challenged.
Adele Godel
The Spawning Pool
#32 - 2012-08-09 18:44:31 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Miss Furry wrote:
If there aren't any cargo expanders in the station, that's not the devs' faults. Seed them yourself.



You are a moron. I have already explained 5 times why this is bullshit. Including directly above your post. Learn to read.


No, and here's your problem. You spend too much time bullshitting in 0.0 that you've forgotten what your entitlements are.

Rookie ships with cyno capabilities centered around convenience for Amarr characters is not one of them.


Then explain to me, in simple terms, why Amarr should be the ONLY race this effects? Are you honestly this stupid?

**** that. I don't care what pubbies think. I want a dev response to this post.


Because amarr is the only race that can carry infinite ammo
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#33 - 2012-08-09 18:44:48 UTC
Solution: reduce the cargo holds on every other newbie ship to 1M^3 less than needed to fuel a cyno.

But it won't happen because the devs h8 Amarr ;)

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#34 - 2012-08-09 18:59:34 UTC
Adele Godel wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Miss Furry wrote:
If there aren't any cargo expanders in the station, that's not the devs' faults. Seed them yourself.



You are a moron. I have already explained 5 times why this is bullshit. Including directly above your post. Learn to read.


No, and here's your problem. You spend too much time bullshitting in 0.0 that you've forgotten what your entitlements are.

Rookie ships with cyno capabilities centered around convenience for Amarr characters is not one of them.


Then explain to me, in simple terms, why Amarr should be the ONLY race this effects? Are you honestly this stupid?

**** that. I don't care what pubbies think. I want a dev response to this post.


Because amarr is the only race that can carry infinite ammo


Increasing the cargo space by what.. I think 2m3 isn't going to change that. You can currently fit 297 units of LO into the hold and it takes 300 to light a cyno at cyno IV. We aren't talking a lot of cargo space here.

I would also support every ship having less cargo, however I think that is a far larger change to mechanics than simply increasing the cargo size by 2m3 on the Impairor.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#35 - 2012-08-09 23:10:17 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.

Give yourself a little more cargo room.

An Expanded Cargo Hold I increases the amount of ozone the Impairor can carry to 337 units.

Only 2000 ISK.

Such a HUGE DISADVANTAGE you have there. CCP needs to immediately stop development on everything else to address this enormous problem immediately.

This topic is either:
A) quite possibly the most weird, bizarre, out of left field thread in the Features section or
B) attempt at trolling.


So why should Amarr pilots have to do this and every other race does not?


Because they are slavers....
Because they are a theocracy....
Because they are different than the other races...


increasing their cargo hold by a few m3 is hardly going to change those things. Please explain how putting Amarr players at a disadvantage when being used to cyno ships supports those story lines. In what way would being a Slaver effect your ability to cyno capitals? How would being a Theocracy effect it and different generally doesn't mean "at a disadvantage". What advantage in this respect do the Amarr get? This is a balance issue, not a story one.

It sounds more like you want to punish people who own capitals.


You still have to transport a cyno and fuel to fit to your free ship.... the added bulk of cargo expanders, compared to the size of the fuel takes up very little space....
You still have to bring a cyno to fit to your free ship.... the cost of a cargo expander compared to a cyno is very little, so again this is hardly worth the effort of posting...

IMO, you're are completely going about this the wrong way.... Disposable Ship and Cyno Ship should not be synonymous!!! And the idea of a Disposable Cyno aught be an oxymoron or an eccentricity afforded only by the rich!!!
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#36 - 2012-08-09 23:25:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

You still have to transport a cyno and fuel to fit to your free ship.... the added bulk of cargo expanders, compared to the size of the fuel takes up very little space....
You still have to bring a cyno to fit to your free ship.... the cost of a cargo expander compared to a cyno is very little, so again this is hardly worth the effort of posting...

IMO, you're are completely going about this the wrong way.... Disposable Ship and Cyno Ship should not be synonymous!!! And the idea of a Disposable Cyno aught be an oxymoron or an eccentricity afforded only by the rich!!!


Then remove the ability to fit a cyno on all rookie ships. You can't train it on trial accounts anyhow. This is an issue of balance, not of inconvenience.

This is going back to the days when we had to tell new players to bio-mass and re-roll their characters because they choose the "wrong" race. All new player races are equal except Amarr. It is the only new player race that comes with a disadvantage. You would be crazy to roll and Amarr character currently. What else does it give you except the perm nerf to your ability to use your rookie ship as a cyno boat? Choose any other race and you can still fly Amarr, and never have that disadvantage.
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