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Missions & Complexes

 
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Regarding AFK Complex Farming

First post First post
Author
Bagehi
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#201 - 2012-08-09 16:44:02 UTC
Naomi Shana wrote:
Every single person who has ever walked away from their computer while running the game, for any length of time or reason, read your news article and said, "What?!"


Actually, I immediately knew what this was in reference to and thought "about f'ing time!" considering it has been a problem for years.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#202 - 2012-08-09 16:48:14 UTC

CCP Sreegs, don't hate me for this.


What happens if I prove I was at the controls for 8 hours, away for 8 hours and back for 8 hours for the rest of the day?

Do the 8 hours I was AFK count as breaking the rules despite the other 8 Hours being actively available at the controls? Chatting, marketing, etc, etc?

Where I am.

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#203 - 2012-08-09 16:53:29 UTC
This is a whole load of preventable drama

pointing the fingers at the players instead of the game

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Xenuria
#204 - 2012-08-09 16:54:30 UTC
The perfect opportunity to plug my stance on the matter.

http://soundcloud.com/xenuria/csm8-activity-vs-inactivity
Cifese
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#205 - 2012-08-09 16:54:31 UTC
So this thread is pure gold. For those of you too busy to read it all, here's a tl:dr:

1. CCP has a system/algorithm that detects botting.
2. This system caught some folks who petitioned, saying they weren't botting.
3. CCP evaluated, said, "yep, you weren't botting, but what you were doing isn't allowed, so stop it"
4. They made that information public, so others wouldn't repeat the mistakes already flagged.
5. They have said they are going to "fix it" but there isn't a schedule, so it's an exploit.

and

6. Lots of people can't read, so they don't comprehend the news item and ragepost.
7. Others want to know the exact details of CCP's algorithm for botting detection so they can work around it (hmmm)
8. Forum Trolls do their job here as well.

That should about sum it up.
cheese monkey
HC - Blackhole Sun
Aporkalypse Now
#206 - 2012-08-09 16:55:05 UTC
Naomi Shana wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Anyone who was performing the activity I'm referring to in the news item has most likely already been banned for doing so. Another item about the belt ratting bit is that in the scenario you paint the amount of income gained is basically nothing. In the scenario we're specifically discussing in this thread you are making a lot more money. By a factor of a whole bunch.


So the concern really isn't that people are using the tools given to them by the game design to make isk, it's that they're making a lot of isk doing it.

You just keep digging the hole deeper and deeper. I highly suggest back off your position and fix the problem in the game mechanics instead of making threats about banning non-botters and scaring the crap out of everyone.

Every single person who has ever walked away from their computer while running the game, for any length of time or reason, read your news article and said, "What?!"

And then they come here and read that CCP would rather make non-specific threats and varied explanations (is the issue afk isk or lots of afk isk?) as to why this is being done instead of simply fixing the problem where it started: in the code.

Less Godzilla, more diplomacy.

Let me help:

"Hit there, this is CCP. We're turning off a few high-sec missions while we adjust the code, sorry for the inconvenince."

And if you can't simply turn them off while fixing them, then let the problem continue until you do fix it. You caused the problem, it's not causing any huge issues, what's the big deal if some afk'ers make a few more iskies until you can roll out the fix? It's certainly 100x better than the customer relations problem you're causing by going this route.


THIS

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png

Suqq Madiq
#207 - 2012-08-09 16:55:07 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
This is a whole load of preventable drama

pointing the fingers at the players instead of the game


It's not the game that's abusing game mechanics. It's the players. Like every other instance in the past of the players abusing game mechanics, they pay for it first and then the mechanic is fixed. This should come as no surprise to anybody.
Radgette
EVE Irn Bru Distribution
#208 - 2012-08-09 16:56:10 UTC
lol i think for any future posting Mr Sreegs you should ask for the community teams permission and get them to proof read any pish you write first because you come over as a total douche in both the news item and this thread.

a more informative and less aggresively toned news item would have avoided this entire stupid thread of back and forth crap.

yes this is unintended and needs to change BUT it's been happening for what 3 years now, hardly a new occurance and also you added a NEW way to do it recently with the main faction epic arcs. doing things unintended by ccp has been happening since eve began :p

fyi i have never done it because i make more money at my pc than doing this afk and haven't trained sentries .

SmashTech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2012-08-09 16:57:35 UTC
Hey Sreegs, answer me this

How much money is "too much money"?

Give me a concrete answer, not just "a lot." Bullshit rules are vague. Good ones are not.
Antal Jozsef
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#210 - 2012-08-09 16:59:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Antal Jozsef
I'm very disappointed CCP.
Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few.
Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time.
You should be ashamed CCP...

edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with?
Mike Head
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2012-08-09 17:02:10 UTC
Fozzy Dorsai wrote:
We really need to get some clarification on this from CCP. Perhaps this is some special case situation, but since I do not do complexes the differentiation isn't obvious to me. It just seems to me that sitting my Rattlesnake in a mission, letting the little sentries clean up a room, and going to the kitchen to get a bite to eat is now a banned activity as I am generating income without being at the game. And as has been pointed out, if you can tank the rats, then you can just find a large roid, point you laser at it, hit a button and do AFK mining and then starting a load of laundry is again generating income without being at the game.
While I doubt either of these activities are on the ban list, I'd really like to see a blue post saying so.


Fozzy, please read the entirety of the news article. It explicitly explains that only one form of AFK activity has been banned, and that eating, peeing, and anything that doesn't require you to be inactive for 24 hour stints is acceptable.

The reason mining is acceptable is because you can't possibly fit something to be AFK for 24 hours, continually mining and never run out of room, and never ONCE be touched to jettison cargo.

Certain elements were designed to be done in an AFK fashion, such as PI and trade.

What was NOT designed to be done in an AFK fashion is camping a rat respawn for days at a time, without touching your ship or issuing further commands.

I hope this clarifies everything, and if anyone else doesn't get it, I'm fairly certain you're a troll so please troll someone else's bridge.
SmashTech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2012-08-09 17:04:16 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
The perfect opportunity to plug my stance on the matter.

http://soundcloud.com/xenuria/csm8-activity-vs-inactivity


Here's my stance on your post: get out
Mike Head
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2012-08-09 17:04:18 UTC
Antal Jozsef wrote:
I'm very disappointed CCP.
Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few.
Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time.
You should be ashamed CCP...

edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with?


You can't read. They are working on fixing it. UNTIL THEY'RE DONE FIXING IT, IT'S A BANNABLE OFFENSE.

I decided to play EVE because I was under the impression you had to have a certain level of intellectual ability to play. But if you can't read the entirety of an article and get the gist, I think you should retake the tutorial.
Ghost Frog
Doomheim
#214 - 2012-08-09 17:05:52 UTC
it occurs to me that in order to catch people doing this, you'll have to be flagging them in some way. why not just feed the flag to the NPCs? If {player name} kills {total number of rats for 1 plex spawn} then spawn {2*[total number of rats for 1 plex spawn]} Incursion rats.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#215 - 2012-08-09 17:06:26 UTC
Antal Jozsef wrote:
I'm very disappointed CCP.
Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few.
Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time.
You should be ashamed CCP...

edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with?


You have failed to read the news item, failed to read the thread, and failed to even read CCP Sreegs' responses by clicking on the blue dev tags.

You should feel very bad about yourself and go sit in a corner for the next 15 minutes.


I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Georgiy Giggle
REFORD Division
REFORD
#216 - 2012-08-09 17:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Georgiy Giggle
Bull sh*t.
If you do not like your mechanic, maybe you should remove sentry drones from a game, hah?

Stop this cr*p! Better find out how to remove macrobots, who farm trillions per week and build cap ships every day.
Bring a balance to game between real players and bots, instead of beating REAL players only!!!

BTW, are you talking about all complexes or only about rapidly-spawning npcs complexes?

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius

Puissant
Tempora Heroica
#217 - 2012-08-09 17:09:22 UTC
Sarik Olecar wrote:
Oh noez! My PI! My Market Orders! My Ice Mining!

Will I be banned too???


Seriously, if Drones weren't meant for AFK / Computer assisted play then what CCP? How much ISK could these AFK complex runners be injecting into the EVEverse?
Naomi Shana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2012-08-09 17:10:00 UTC
Mike Head wrote:
Fozzy Dorsai wrote:
We really need to get some clarification on this from CCP. Perhaps this is some special case situation, but since I do not do complexes the differentiation isn't obvious to me. It just seems to me that sitting my Rattlesnake in a mission, letting the little sentries clean up a room, and going to the kitchen to get a bite to eat is now a banned activity as I am generating income without being at the game. And as has been pointed out, if you can tank the rats, then you can just find a large roid, point you laser at it, hit a button and do AFK mining and then starting a load of laundry is again generating income without being at the game.
While I doubt either of these activities are on the ban list, I'd really like to see a blue post saying so.


Fozzy, please read the entirety of the news article. It explicitly explains that only one form of AFK activity has been banned, and that eating, peeing, and anything that doesn't require you to be inactive for 24 hour stints is acceptable.

The reason mining is acceptable is because you can't possibly fit something to be AFK for 24 hours, continually mining and never run out of room, and never ONCE be touched to jettison cargo.

Certain elements were designed to be done in an AFK fashion, such as PI and trade.

What was NOT designed to be done in an AFK fashion is camping a rat respawn for days at a time, without touching your ship or issuing further commands.

I hope this clarifies everything, and if anyone else doesn't get it, I'm fairly certain you're a troll so please troll someone else's bridge.


You're missing points as well.

Sreegs has said that you CAN sit in a belt letting your drones kill rats all day while afk but you CAN'T do the same exact thing in some specific missions because of the difference in income.

That boner, plus the plain old :CCP: knee-jerk heavy-handedness of "let's punish players for using what we've given them instead of addressing the code issue", has everyone concerned.
Ghost Frog
Doomheim
#219 - 2012-08-09 17:11:51 UTC
Mike Head wrote:
Antal Jozsef wrote:
I'm very disappointed CCP.
Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few.
Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time.
You should be ashamed CCP...

edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with?


You can't read. They are working on fixing it. UNTIL THEY'RE DONE FIXING IT, IT'S A BANNABLE OFFENSE.

I decided to play EVE because I was under the impression you had to have a certain level of intellectual ability to play. But if you can't read the entirety of an article and get the gist, I think you should retake the tutorial.

Perhaps your intellect isn't as sharp as you would like to believe. I was under the impression that everyone knew that the EVE forums were heavily populated with players looking to spin various arguments for their own purposes. "Meta" and all that. IF YOU READ CAREFULLY, MAYBE YOU WILL FIGURE IT OUT. But I doubt it.
Kyle Frost
Solar Vista.
#220 - 2012-08-09 17:13:20 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Reading skill are not at 5 for a lot of posters here.

/me sad....


QFT


TLDR:

Everybody who is blaming CCP or whining about “the sandbox” – get a f*****g clue!

Solution to the problem – revise COSMOS missions and complexes. They haven’t been touched since they were implemented, and that was how long ago – 6-7 years? Increase the rewards from COSMOS missions – most of the storyline modules you receive are worthless and way too expensive to build. At the same time, increase the difficulty of the COSMOS missions – make the NPCs tougher, maybe give them Sleeper-like AI. Turn COSMOS missions into a real end-game PvE content.

Long, idiot friendly version:

I can’t believe I am going to agree with a goon and defend CCP, but I am still not at the point where I will call the white color black, just because I don’t like it. So here it goes…

Almost all legitimate (which do not include a third party automation software and will NOT get you banned) AFK activities in EVE are limited by game mechanics or by the EVE players themselves. For example - every afk miner has to empty his cargohold manually after a period of time (40 minutes or so), every afk mission runner has to manually move his ship to the next pocket after clearing the one he is currently in, afk ratting in 0.0 gets you killed and so on. The people that CCP’s message was addressed to, are not limited by game mechanics and they were exploiting this. So even though this was not made very clear in the original message, everyone with simple powers of deduction should have been able to reach this logical conclusion. For the special boys – AFK MINING/MISSIONING IS NOT THE SAME AS AFK FARMING A COSMOS COMPLEX. Idea

I can think of at least 3 or 4 complexes in the Caldari and Amarr COSMOS constellations which can be farmed by utilizing the sentry drones tactic. I guess there are some complexes in the Gallente and Minmatar constellations as well. The reason why there are BS-sized rats with high bounties spawning in those places, is because they are part of lvl 3-4 COSMOS missions and should pose an appropriate challenge. The reason why the rats respawn inside the complex constantly, is so that player B can come in, run the plex, and get his mission item after player A has done so before him. Keep in mind, that some of those complexes are not there solely for the purpose of certain missions, but they also provide you with tools and materials for producing the storyline items. For the special boys – THE COMPLEXES ARE SERVING THEIR PURPOSE JUST FINE. (HINT – THEIR PURPOSE IS NOT TO PROVIDE YOU WITH FREE ISK 23/7) Shocked

And now for all those wiseguys (like Jame Jarl Retief), saying this is CCP’s fault, they broke it, they should fix it, leave the AFK-ers alone, etc. THE COSMOS COMPLEXES ARE NOT BROKEN! They might be obsolete and in need of an update, but they are not broken. They served their purpose for a very long time. So before you start bitching, and whining, and pointing fingers again, please consider the following:

1. When COSMOS missions/complexes were first implemented 7 years ago, there were no passive tanked drone boats! The Gila and the Rattlesnake didn’t have drone and shield resist bonuses. The Ishtar was around, but back then there were no sentry drones. So NO, jackass – I guess it didn’t occur to them that something like this could happen. Evil

2. EVE is the largest, most diverse, player populated game universe. Creating and updating content for this universe is not exactly easy. If the devs could anticipate all the possible scenarios and how players would react in every given situation, they probably wouldn’t be bothering with EVE anymore – they would be playing the stock market and winning millions… hey, Iceland probably wouldn’t have gone bankrupt.

Could this issue have been looked at and fixed earlier – yeah, probably. But CCP seems to be on the right track now, so how about we cut them some slack?

And whoever suggested the “fix” with turning off drone automatic switching of targets – that’s a brilliant idea! As if drones are not stupid and irresponsive enough as it is, let’s make them even dumber… genius! Evil

P.S. When I first visited the EVE forums 6 years ago, I was impressed with how mature and sensible people were. Today, it’s like I am looking at a WoW forum, only with less leet-speak (for which I guess I should be grateful). Whining and stupidity all around… the EVE world is going to hell, just like the real one. Any suggestions on how to fix that? Roll

Let the gun do the talking!