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WOW Refugees

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Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#21 - 2012-08-09 13:17:14 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
I, for one, think it is imperative to EVEs continued success and the health of our community to keep the corporation role management from actually displaying a horizontal scrollbar or just show all the available roles in a readable format. People that are too stupid to understand that data is hidden from them, or too lazy to look everywhere they cannot look for data that might potentially be there but probably isn't, don't deserve to be informed.

In case you don't know me, which you probably don't, and thus cannot infer implied meaning from my text: This is obvious sarcasm.


You guys need a new forum font:

Sarcastica
El Cid Campeador
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-08-09 13:18:10 UTC
You also realize even though they lost a million subs, that Diablo sales were up? They even said, we believe most players that left WoW came to Diablo 3.... Plus this loss was recent, and wouldnt even have time to effect CCP policy....
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#23 - 2012-08-09 13:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
CCP Prism X wrote:
I, for one, think it is imperative to EVEs continued success and the health of our community to keep the corporation role management from actually displaying a horizontal scrollbar or just show all the available roles in a readable format. People that are too stupid to understand that data is hidden from them, or too lazy to look everywhere they cannot look for data that might potentially be there but probably isn't, don't deserve to be informed.

In case you don't know me, which you probably don't, and thus cannot infer implied meaning from my text: This is obvious sarcasm.


While you don't look at that, which is most welcome btw Smile could you also don't look at BPO lock down management? I once locked 250 blueprints down then had to move. Manually unlocking all Blueprints one by one having some fail to unlock for days was the highlight of my EVE career. P
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-08-09 13:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Malcanis wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
You would have to have been living under a rock lately to not see the changes to eve and the simpicity that is being implemented but one wonders is this a direct result of the popular child game wow and its recent sub loss. If WOW is losing subs faster than football players at penn state where are they going? Eve possibly? Do you think refugees from other mmos will impact eve and how long will they stay and to what extent will CCP modify eve to retain these refugees?


If CCP wanted millions of subs, all they had to do was remove non-consensual PvP. That's all it would take for EVE's population to jump up by an order of magnitude. See Ultima Online and Trammel.



Yes it's puzzling that CCP don't want EVE to emulate the runaway success story that is UO.


Whatcha talkin' 'bout?

Back when UO came out, it was doing great. Keep in mind, this was late 90s, aside from first world countries Internet penetration was almost nonexistent, and even amongst first world countries, in many people did not have internet at home yet. There was also precious little competition for UO, which was another plus.

But because of its PvP mechanics (FFA, full loot, stealing), the game wasn't going so well. It was basically stagnating. In a few years they finally worked out why, and introduced Trammel (PvE copy of the game world), and the population started to go up. By 2003, it had over 250k subs. Of course in 2004 WoW came out and we all know how that went. But for 2003, UO subscription numbers weren't bad. EVE had what, 50k-75k that year? And only now, 9 years later, reaching 450k?

I don't know, relatively speaking I would rank UO as a much bigger success than EVE.

Seriously, if someone is going to cry wolf that EVE is being dumbed down to get more players in, there's only one thing you need to worry about - removal of non-consensual PvP. Beyond that, there's absolutely nothing CCP can do to lure people in here and make them stay. Well, there is one thing, namely boobs, but that attracts a questionable crowd you might not enjoy once you got them, not to mention the things it would do to the game's reputation after the gaming media was done with the story. So for all intents and purposes, PvP is the only thing.

El Cid Campeador wrote:
You also realize even though they lost a million subs, that Diablo sales were up? They even said, we believe most players that left WoW came to Diablo 3.... Plus this loss was recent, and wouldnt even have time to effect CCP policy....


This totally boggles my mind. I briefly tried D3, and it was just awful. And the item shop for real money?! Brrrr! But guess what? Ten million copies sold and counting. At $50 a pop, can you say ka-ching?

The good news is, PC gaming is not dead. The bad news is, the average PC gamer is apparently mildly ********.
CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2012-08-09 13:44:04 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Whatcha talkin' 'bout?

You're forgetting the important part where EQ came along and was much better at being what UO tried to be with the schism.

UO did enjoy a net growth after the schism. Primarly due to an influx of what we now call carebears.
UO lost that growth once EQ hit the shelves.
UO had already lost a lot of their veteran followers due to the schism.
UO died as a result of changing its design paradigm and thus attempting to compete with other games on their home turf. Of course EQ wasn't when the schism happened so you cannot really blame anybody.

But I believe that's what Malcanis is referring to.

CCP Prism X

Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
DeadDuck
Aurora.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2012-08-09 14:04:30 UTC
EVE will only start to loose significant chunks of subscribers when their competion manages to lauch a MMORPG based on Internet Spaceships. As far as I know there isn't a single game under development that resembles EVE.

Thats why when CCP started to go to WiS there was a riot. Eve subscribers don't care about dungeons, pvp RP monsters, warriors, magicians, or fancy outfits. The main bulk doesnt care about you avatar apearence but they care about how the Machariel looks. They want Internet spaceships.

Games like GW2, Diablo 3, will catch a lot of subscribers from the adventure MMORPG like WoW, but EVE is unique at the moment, so will take a lot of effort to CCP to destroy the game if they continue to offer their member base Internet Spaceships.

They started to go on the worng direction with WiS but they saw the error in time and even more important, they managed to recover from the error very very well with the new expansions.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-08-09 14:14:43 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
You would have to have been living under a rock lately to not see the changes to eve and the simpicity that is being implemented but one wonders is this a direct result of the popular child game wow and its recent sub loss. If WOW is losing subs faster than football players at penn state where are they going? Eve possibly? Do you think refugees from other mmos will impact eve and how long will they stay and to what extent will CCP modify eve to retain these refugees?


Your point would be a good one if you weren't using it as a forum for: (1) Stale old WoW bashing that nobody cares about anymore; and (2) tasteless metaphor.
Zenos Ebeth
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-08-09 14:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenos Ebeth
Why can't everyone see that they are just making the game easier to get into , from what i've seen the only thing they have changed is to make certain information easier to access. The mechanics are all still there. People whining because you don't need to whip out a calculator anymore to see what optimal your missiles have is silly.

Also , ccp has stated several time they expect an influx of player from dust 514 release , which i suspect is why they have done these changes.

Bad posts are not welcome on these forums.  -CCP Falcon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2012-08-09 14:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
CCP Prism X wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Whatcha talkin' 'bout?

You're forgetting the important part where EQ came along and was much better at being what UO tried to be with the schism.

UO did enjoy a net growth after the schism. Primarly due to an influx of what we now call carebears.
UO lost that growth once EQ hit the shelves.
UO had already lost a lot of their veteran followers due to the schism.
UO died as a result of changing its design paradigm and thus attempting to compete with other games on their home turf. Of course EQ wasn't when the schism happened so you cannot really blame anybody.

But I believe that's what Malcanis is referring to.
…and as for the initial success of UO, let's remember that they were taking this new-fangled and fast-growing concept of online gaming and applying it to a 16 year old, very popular IP, and that at the time, the only alternative (if you could call it that) was The Realm, from that other evil competing firm in the adventure/rpg genre: Sierra.

No true Origin gamer would sully their hands with that. Blink

(Ok, so there was M59, but pff… who cares about those guys.)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#30 - 2012-08-09 14:28:22 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Whatcha talkin' 'bout?

You're forgetting the important part where EQ came along and was much better at being what UO tried to be with the schism.

UO did enjoy a net growth after the schism. Primarly due to an influx of what we now call carebears.
UO lost that growth once EQ hit the shelves.
UO had already lost a lot of their veteran followers due to the schism.
UO died as a result of changing its design paradigm and thus attempting to compete with other games on their home turf. Of course EQ wasn't when the schism happened so you cannot really blame anybody.

But I believe that's what Malcanis is referring to.



GIVE PRISM X ALL THE LIKES

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mura Dari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-08-09 14:34:16 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
EVE will only start to loose significant chunks of subscribers when their competion manages to lauch a MMORPG based on Internet Spaceships. As far as I know there isn't a single game under development that resembles EVE.

Thats why when CCP started to go to WiS there was a riot. Eve subscribers don't care about dungeons, pvp RP monsters, warriors, magicians, or fancy outfits. The main bulk doesnt care about you avatar apearence but they care about how the Machariel looks. They want Internet spaceships.

Games like GW2, Diablo 3, will catch a lot of subscribers from the adventure MMORPG like WoW, but EVE is unique at the moment, so will take a lot of effort to CCP to destroy the game if they continue to offer their member base Internet Spaceships.

They started to go on the worng direction with WiS but they saw the error in time and even more important, they managed to recover from the error very very well with the new expansions.

I don't care one bit about internet spaceships. I'm here for the sandbox features like FFA PvP, player looting, territory control, no classes, no levels, limited restrictions...basically everything UO had pre-trammel.

Many of us are desperate to have WiS, but not at the cost of letting FiS suffer which I believe was the true reason for the uprising. CCP spent years ignoring broken/outdated features in order to release new broken features is what pissed off so many people. They were actually getting a little better until /suddenly Unified Inventory.
DeadDuck
Aurora.
The Initiative.
#32 - 2012-08-09 14:49:37 UTC
Mura Dari wrote:
I don't care one bit about internet spaceships



Shocked... err this game evolves around a central theme... internet spaceships. All the rest comes from there. PVP is based on internet spaceships, region control is gained with internetspace ships, loot comes from there also, etc, etc.

Are you sure that you are playing the right game? Because if you are that desperate about WiS you better wait seated, it will take a (long) while.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-08-09 15:31:50 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
Mura Dari wrote:
I don't care one bit about internet spaceships



Shocked... err this game evolves around a central theme... internet spaceships. All the rest comes from there. PVP is based on internet spaceships, region control is gained with internetspace ships, loot comes from there also, etc, etc.

Are you sure that you are playing the right game? Because if you are that desperate about WiS you better wait seated, it will take a (long) while.



BUT I thought this was spreadsheets online ?
Hey CCP when are you going to make a deal with google doc's to incorporate their interface into the game ?

Oh and when are we going to be able to Rent Netflix and watch them in our Captains Quarters ?

And what about the order Pizza Icon you all promised ?

And while your at ..... how about... yeh I'm done .. .maybe



EVERYBODY KNOWS
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2012-08-09 15:32:48 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Hey CCP when are you going to make a deal with google doc's to incorporate their interface into the game ?
…we already have Chrome in the game, so it's there as we speak. P
Reiisha
#35 - 2012-08-09 15:35:59 UTC
Pilna Vcelka wrote:
I dont think WoW is losing subs to EVE. Its GW2 that both WoW and EVE will lose a big chunk of playerbase to.

Also, its good theyre making the game better for new players. Nobody cares about bitter vets really.




Oh, so many times in the last 10 years i've seen this posted...

"XXX game will make EVE lose a lot of subs".

Still makes me giggle.




Back on topic though, EVE REALLY needed a boost in it's accessibility. It was nearly impossible for newer players to really get into the game due to the immense learning curve the UI had and how difficult it was to get the information you needed.

If this were a strategy game, bitter vets would be complaining about the new patch including the ability to see what units you have selected. Obviously, having to remember this equates to 'more skill'.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Elliot Vodka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-08-09 15:36:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Elliot Vodka
Idk why everyone wants to make it easier to attract new players, i mean common, players have spent half there life learning this game and for what? A new kid trying to just walk into an insainly steep learning curve game like eve?


Seriously!!?


If anything we should make a harder, more complicated, and a crap load of pointless grinding just to be accepted into a corp.


That way, everyone will be forced to leave that cant keep up with anyone but the most badass eve players...

This is the only way... Stop going into this pipe dream of yours thinking eve will ever be a friendly place for any non hardened completely dedicated players.








heh heh heh heh heh... sarcasm

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?"
Ghazu
#37 - 2012-08-09 16:40:55 UTC
Don't forget the 2nd life refugees.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Velicitia
XS Tech
#38 - 2012-08-09 16:57:51 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
I, for one, think it is imperative to EVEs continued success and the health of our community to keep the corporation role management from actually displaying a horizontal scrollbar or just show all the available roles in a readable format. People that are too stupid to understand that data is hidden from them, or too lazy to look everywhere they cannot look for data that might potentially be there but probably isn't, don't deserve to be informed.



CCP Troll, best troll.

While you're at it, you might as well re-instate Learning Skills, and get rid of the skill queueRoll

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
SmashTech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-08-09 16:59:59 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Don't forget the 2nd life refugees.


what was the name of that one guy who ran for CSM this year on the roleplaying "Alexander Gianturco is the devil and I am your savior" platform?

Because frankly it's a group of refugees we could do without

(just like the WoWbears)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#40 - 2012-08-09 17:04:29 UTC
SmashTech wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
Don't forget the 2nd life refugees.


what was the name of that one guy who ran for CSM this year on the roleplaying "Alexander Gianturco is the devil and I am your savior" platform?

Because frankly it's a group of refugees we could do without

(just like the WoWbears)


Mittens? No, he can't be the devil.

Might've invaded hell and taken over management though Blink

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia