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Rebalance Cloak System

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Eternal Error
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-08-08 16:20:15 UTC
I agree that AFK cloakers' reign of terror needs to come to an end.

To accomplish this, I fully support removing local from lowsec and null so that you will be ignorant of his presence and carry on your activities as normal.

Any other solutions are not supported.

Good day.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-08-08 16:46:49 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
I agree that AFK cloakers' reign of terror needs to come to an end.

To accomplish this, I fully support removing local from lowsec and null so that you will be ignorant of his presence and carry on your activities as normal.

Any other solutions are not supported.

Good day.


Go to WH if you dont need local.
Remove local give more huge advantages to cloakers. That not supported.
Even the AFK tag is better than remove local.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#23 - 2012-08-08 17:52:50 UTC

1.) If the AFK tag was applied to everyone, not just cloakers, I might consider this. However, IMO, this is taking intel in the WRONG DIRECTION. We don't need more instant intel on people, we need less.....

I personally want local set to WH delayed mode, and for CCP to actually create an intel tool / system. Have it quickly alert you to the presence of a new pilot in space, but hide their identity & ship type until they are within recon range (i.e. you don't instantly know if the new local is friend or foe, but you moreless instantly know there is a new person in local). The recon range of ships could depend on your ship type/attributes, their ship type/attributes, skills, modules, and of course, the distance between you two.

Finally, have intel automatically shared with fleet members in system.

This is much better than giving away even more free intel.... which we already have wwwaaaaayyyy to much of as is.


2.) Any cloaky hunting mechanics should not hinder cloakers safely traveling through a gate camp, or you essentially nerf the primary function of a covert cloak into uselessness.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-08-08 18:19:01 UTC
Untouchable Heart wrote:


AFK cloakers get advantages to terrorize active players and break economics without play.
Advantages without play it's unfair against active players.



This is the main problem with this cloaking system.
Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-08-08 18:55:29 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

1.) If the AFK tag was applied to everyone, not just cloakers, I might consider this. However, IMO, this is taking intel in the WRONG DIRECTION. We don't need more instant intel on people, we need less.....

I personally want local set to WH delayed mode, and for CCP to actually create an intel tool / system. Have it quickly alert you to the presence of a new pilot in space, but hide their identity & ship type until they are within recon range (i.e. you don't instantly know if the new local is friend or foe, but you moreless instantly know there is a new person in local). The recon range of ships could depend on your ship type/attributes, their ship type/attributes, skills, modules, and of course, the distance between you two.

Finally, have intel automatically shared with fleet members in system.

This is much better than giving away even more free intel.... which we already have wwwaaaaayyyy to much of as is.


2.) Any cloaky hunting mechanics should not hinder cloakers safely traveling through a gate camp, or you essentially nerf the primary function of a covert cloak into uselessness.



So when I am ratting trying to grind isk to fund my pvp habit every time a new local enters system I need to dock up and go grab a pvp ship to try and find out who they even are, while at the same time they warp off & cloak and now I have no idea what they are in.

Until CCP makes ratting in groups more profitable in 0.0 it wont happen. People are too concerned with their isk/hr ratios.

Now if there is an option for a system upgrade to be able to provide direct intel on someone jumping in I may be more for that. I dislike the AFK cloak type but as others have said either move on to a different system or find something else to do until they get bored. So in short I am saying no to your proposal.
Crozo Yotosala
Safeside Mechanics
#26 - 2012-08-08 19:32:44 UTC
You act like Goons don't already use this tactic. At some point or another you eventually get to the point where you either grow some balls and rat or tell CCP to completely remove cloaking. Because removing cloaking is totally viable due to NPC ratters not making the most of their situation, which is more than likely a nomadic lifestyle anyways. The other option for renters is to pack their bags and rent from somewhere else or simply rat in groups like i said earlier. I here Test has some yummy space they're selling out.
http://pleaseignore.net/rent/welcome-to-fountain/

Anomaly 13 is recruiting. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6165199#post6165199
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#27 - 2012-08-08 20:14:49 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Tenobia Aybara wrote:
It may be worth pointing out that a cloaky pilot in any Null Sec system is of less risk than any cloaky pilot in any inhabited Wormhole system. Why?

In the wormhole system you cant see there is a Red/Neut in system, so you don't have the information to avoid the risk - so what you do instead is have friends online to deal with it for you. These friends are called cloaked falcons, or rapiers or any other combat ship under the stars.

Want to be able to mine solo, without friends? Then go to Hi-sec, buy the new Procurer and AFK mine your life away.


AFK cloakers annoy me too, but you have to understand the way to deal with them is not to remove them from the game, it is to develop a viable defence strategy to neutralise them. This strategy is a combination of perma-bubbles, active gate camps, scouts and beefing up the toons guarding you in the belts.

Recently a Dev Blog stated that the recent changes were to allow miners to make meaningful choices before undocking. In Null Sec these choices have been around for ages.


U need to adapt to AFK cloaking because it is broke. And if something is broke it needs to eb fixed. Any advantage u can get by not being at your pc should be addressed. And i mean being 24/7 afk not on your comp and shutting whole systems sucks hard.


What advantage do you get while afk cloaked? Do you get isk? Do you get kills? Do you do anything? The answer of course is no. AFK cloakers do not, in fact can not, shut down a system. The residents of that system shut it down themselves. Again do not blame the afk player for someone elses (the miners/ratters/etc) actions.


The advantage u get is distrupting others game by not being on your computer. The residents in the system can never know if the cloaky is afk or not. And any even a bit smart guy want go ratting when he knows there is a possible hot drop.

So when one alliance deployes to attack another. The attackers shut every single system with afk ppl. That is a pretty big advantage for someone not being on his comp.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Caruleum Ursa
Orion Ore International
#28 - 2012-08-08 20:17:04 UTC
I agree with OP.

Too much of a good thing is bad. Cloaky 24/7 is bad, but make them de-cloak occasionally to enjoy some "risk" by either adding a timer or some energy mod that will time down by using up cap or something after a few hours.

There are many ways to make the module stop working after a few hours.
These annoying cloaky ships need to be regulated a bit for game balance.
They can decloak and kil you solo ... or, they can scout you down and call their friends to kill you.
And, that's absolutely FINE. But,
... cloaking becomes abusive if they sit there 24/7, because you can't even scan them down to kill them back.

Please pick this up, dear C S M .... this cry for "balance" deserves some loving attention!
Alastar Frost
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-08-08 20:50:24 UTC
The problem i see with afk cloackers:

They are a potential threat.
They could have a cyno and just wait for you to let your guard down.
You dont know what they are doing, they may be afk on a safe, but they may also actively spy.
Putting an afk cloacker into every enemy system threatening that system with a instant titan bridge or captital hot drop makes counter strategies hard to plan, you can not defend all systems with full force.

For the wormholers:
you can not threaten a wh system with hotdrops, thats a big difference. the potential force projection of a cloacky inside a wh is much less significant.

A potential solution:

Change cloaking devices to not completely hide the ship. Just blurr the scannable signature.
If it is on grid, it remains invisible as it is now.
If you attempt to scan it down, instead of pinpointing the exact location, you get an area where the cloacky is hiding.
You can warp to that area and sweep it (try to uncloack the ship). Maybe this could be a special role (increase the decloack radius of a ship)
For active cloackers that changes nothing, they can just warp away if they see people warping to the area. Afk clocking on the other hand leaves you vounerable if someone takes the effort to sweep the area for you, as it gives the search party plenty of time to find you.
Afk cloaking in a fast moving ship still allows to find you, as consecutive scans will reveal the movement vector of your ship (the area moves) and your speed. It is much harder though.

Scanning the system for the cloacker can at least give you intel on where he is spying, allowing to determine if a cloacker is active or afk.

To allow strategic use of cyno cloakers, if they are active, i would suggest to implement a 5 min timer after a warp where you are unscannable.


The lore:
Cloaking ships can not circumvent the laws of physics, especially thermodynamics. A ship can only be completely hidden by storing the heat of their reactor inside the ship. While warping, you can vent the heat over a large area, making it impossible to scan it down. After you land, the time you can remain invisible by only using internal cooling systems and heat storage is limited, after that, you have to vent the heat to the space around you. A cloaking device can blurr the exact source of the heat and therefore your exact location, but not that there is a heat source in the area.


I think that solution is more elegant than fuel or cap usage, as it really adds a need for constant movement and action for the cloacky pilot. That creates the feeling of actually doing something dangerous by spying in enemy space.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#30 - 2012-08-08 20:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Lets go over the commonly proposed ideas for "fixing" afk cloaking, and why they are (mostly) bad ideas.

1) cap usage for cloaks: would make legitimate uses for cloaking a living nightmare. Especially scouts in Cov Ops. There is no way to make this so that it would hinder afk cloakers without wreaking active cloakers.

2) fuel usage for cloaks: would make usage of cloaks in hostile territory a mess. On my last null roam I spent about 12 hours cloaked, with only 1 station available to me for about 20 seconds (as long as it took to get out of the system). Any mechanic of this sort to hinder afk cloakers woudl only hurt active cloakers more.

3) remove local: this won't fix the "problem". Won't really hurt cloakers that much by itself. Would make the ones who find issue with afk cloaking even more mad though.

4) anti-cloak/cloak detecting Sov item: would make active cloaking near useless in Sov systems. Removes a large portion of gameplay.

5) new ship to find cloakers: this would be a mess for active cloakers, and would require CCP to devote Dev resources to making and balancing such a ship. Not the worst idea though.

6) afk tag: this is not a bad idea for the most part. Only issue I see with it is that bots will become more viable in null if this was implemented. I am hesitantly in support of something along these lines, but for completely different reasons.



There are probably more potential "fixes" that only make things worse, but I can't think of any.


My opinion: this is only an issue because people can't play when they might be at risk. That is a personal issue. Spend time in WHs for a few months and you learn to not care if someone is in local (aside from the freakout when you enter a system and a bunch of stuff shows up on dscan...Lol).


Edit: the guy above me posted a very nice idea... especially being able to vent the heat while warping. This would allow a CovOps to run a while without worry, venting every time they warp.
No matter my personal view on the subject, I like that idea just from an immersion standpoint.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-08-09 00:14:41 UTC
I don't like how people assume its easy to cloak hunt in null sec.

When you hunt you have 2 choices.

You can lurk a sport someone will come and investigate which means you'll either a get tagged as afk by these changes or target won't rat, mine, plex what have you.

Second you can roam solo going from system to system. Given the fact that anyone in system sees you enter they dock up or watch to see if you keep going on your merry way assuming your passing through. If you spend any time beyond what it takes to get to the next gate guess what? They dock up.

Any changes to the system would render cloaking less useful unless they changed the basic rules of cloaking.


Target timer penalty, warping with less then covert ops impossible and speed penalty.

You can't reasonable change one aspect of the game without considering what you do to the others.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-08-09 06:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Untouchable Heart
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

The advantage u get is distrupting others game by not being on your computer. The residents in the system can never know if the cloaky is afk or not. And any even a bit smart guy want go ratting when he knows there is a possible hot drop.

So when one alliance deployes to attack another. The attackers shut every single system with afk ppl. That is a pretty big advantage for someone not being on his comp.


Yes, this is the pure truth.
Just as i said earlier, god bless us if a big alliance will starting this tactic and infect all solar systems.
Thats would be ruin the whole game and will bring huge economic catastrophe to players.

A smart pilot knows, when a cloaker in the system, the threat is critical when he trying to move to ratting and he dont know the cloaker afk or not. And dont forget sometimes the residents dont have enough active players in system to defending.
So, the pilots have two choices, he moving out from infected system if he want to evade from danger zone or he risk what is not wise choice.
But too easily infect all systems with cloaker alts and the pilot not have any chance to move other "cloaker free" system.
The other problem is, if the residents move from underpopulated places to densely peopled system, the other systems will be uninhabited and generate lag at the main hubs and dont forget the ratting place numbers is not limitless.

The real problem is, the inactive players can cloaking 24/7 times long without playing. This would need to change. The other problem is the threat possibility from inactive players against active players, what is huge advantage for inactive player and unfair game mechanics against active players.
As the mining bots, which get advantage without playing.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#33 - 2012-08-09 06:19:40 UTC
Pro-tip: If you want the rewards of ratting/plexing in nullsec you must deal with the risks. If you are unwilling to deal with the risk, or to put in the effort to counter it, then you're free to head straight back to hisec.

Cloaking is fine as is. Stop being babies.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#34 - 2012-08-09 06:23:33 UTC
Alastar Frost wrote:
The problem i see with afk cloackers:

They are a potential threat.
They could have a cyno and just wait for you to let your guard down.
You dont know what they are doing, they may be afk on a safe, but they may also actively spy.
Putting an afk cloacker into every enemy system threatening that system with a instant titan bridge or captital hot drop makes counter strategies hard to plan, you can not defend all systems with full force.

For the wormholers:
you can not threaten a wh system with hotdrops, thats a big difference. the potential force projection of a cloacky inside a wh is much less significant.

A potential solution:

Change cloaking devices to not completely hide the ship. Just blurr the scannable signature.
If it is on grid, it remains invisible as it is now.
If you attempt to scan it down, instead of pinpointing the exact location, you get an area where the cloacky is hiding.
You can warp to that area and sweep it (try to uncloack the ship). Maybe this could be a special role (increase the decloack radius of a ship)
For active cloackers that changes nothing, they can just warp away if they see people warping to the area. Afk clocking on the other hand leaves you vounerable if someone takes the effort to sweep the area for you, as it gives the search party plenty of time to find you.
Afk cloaking in a fast moving ship still allows to find you, as consecutive scans will reveal the movement vector of your ship (the area moves) and your speed. It is much harder though.

Scanning the system for the cloacker can at least give you intel on where he is spying, allowing to determine if a cloacker is active or afk.

To allow strategic use of cyno cloakers, if they are active, i would suggest to implement a 5 min timer after a warp where you are unscannable.


The lore:
Cloaking ships can not circumvent the laws of physics, especially thermodynamics. A ship can only be completely hidden by storing the heat of their reactor inside the ship. While warping, you can vent the heat over a large area, making it impossible to scan it down. After you land, the time you can remain invisible by only using internal cooling systems and heat storage is limited, after that, you have to vent the heat to the space around you. A cloaking device can blurr the exact source of the heat and therefore your exact location, but not that there is a heat source in the area.


I think that solution is more elegant than fuel or cap usage, as it really adds a need for constant movement and action for the cloacky pilot. That creates the feeling of actually doing something dangerous by spying in enemy space.


I stopped reading when you said cloakies in wormholes are less of a threat. You have no idea what you're talking about, cloakies are far more of a threat in wormholes because you don't even know they're there at all - at least in nullsec you have local and know how many people are in system with you. Twenty t3s can't decloak on you from nowhere.
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-08-09 06:51:44 UTC
Alastar Frost wrote:
The problem i see with afk cloackers:

They are a potential threat.
They could have a cyno and just wait for you to let your guard down.
You dont know what they are doing, they may be afk on a safe, but they may also actively spy.
Putting an afk cloacker into every enemy system threatening that system with a instant titan bridge or captital hot drop makes counter strategies hard to plan, you can not defend all systems with full force.

For the wormholers:
you can not threaten a wh system with hotdrops, thats a big difference. the potential force projection of a cloacky inside a wh is much less significant.

A potential solution:

Change cloaking devices to not completely hide the ship. Just blurr the scannable signature.
If it is on grid, it remains invisible as it is now.
If you attempt to scan it down, instead of pinpointing the exact location, you get an area where the cloacky is hiding.
You can warp to that area and sweep it (try to uncloack the ship). Maybe this could be a special role (increase the decloack radius of a ship)
For active cloackers that changes nothing, they can just warp away if they see people warping to the area. Afk clocking on the other hand leaves you vounerable if someone takes the effort to sweep the area for you, as it gives the search party plenty of time to find you.
Afk cloaking in a fast moving ship still allows to find you, as consecutive scans will reveal the movement vector of your ship (the area moves) and your speed. It is much harder though.

Scanning the system for the cloacker can at least give you intel on where he is spying, allowing to determine if a cloacker is active or afk.

To allow strategic use of cyno cloakers, if they are active, i would suggest to implement a 5 min timer after a warp where you are unscannable.


The lore:
Cloaking ships can not circumvent the laws of physics, especially thermodynamics. A ship can only be completely hidden by storing the heat of their reactor inside the ship. While warping, you can vent the heat over a large area, making it impossible to scan it down. After you land, the time you can remain invisible by only using internal cooling systems and heat storage is limited, after that, you have to vent the heat to the space around you. A cloaking device can blurr the exact source of the heat and therefore your exact location, but not that there is a heat source in the area.


I think that solution is more elegant than fuel or cap usage, as it really adds a need for constant movement and action for the cloacky pilot. That creates the feeling of actually doing something dangerous by spying in enemy space.



Nice and interesting ideas but not real solution against cheater script users.
Too easy to write a script which is warping between safespots. Better if a cloak need fuel usage because the pilot must recharge his fuel and script unusable in that situation.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#36 - 2012-08-09 07:03:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
OP... you're not fooling anyone with your alts in their newly made 1 man corps. You're basically copy-pasting the same statements in the exact same bad English.

With that pointed out...

Quote:
Somehow must fix cloak advantages when someone not playing, just break economics.
That's same when someone dont go to work but want to get paycheck for nothing.

Using that reasoning we should also nerf traders and manufacturers. I mean... all they do is move some numbers here and there... maybe ship some stuff this way and that way... in fact... most of their money earning happens when they are not actually logged in... much less undocked and shootable by their enemies.

Quote:
AFK cloaker break game economics, dont lie. Easy and possible terrorize peoples without playing, because no counter against AFK cloakers.

There are an innumberable amount of counters for dealing with hostile cloakies. Here... I'll repost them from another thread for easy reading!

- Have everyone who wants to rat in the same fleet so you can all warp to each other if problems occur (yes, effort).
- Have one or two people in Taranii flying around system as a "rapid response team" (Stealth Bombers HATE small, fast, high-DPS ships).
- Don't min/max your fits for ratting... PvP fit them (i.e. omni-resists, warp disruptor, Warrior II drones, heavy energy neutralizer) so you can give your interceptor buddies time to get to you (yes, this will cut into your ISK-efficiency... boo hoo).
- Alternatively, have someone with you in a plex/sanctum/anomaly in a super-sebo'd arty-fit Muninn/Tornado/Maelstorm. Not only can they assist you and help you clear things up faster, but they are very menacing to slow, tankless Stealth Bombers.
- Falcons, Rooks, and Kitsunes can jam hostiles from long range so miners can warp away.
- Logistics ships. Use them for their intended role: keeping people who don't want to die, alive.
- Change up your ratting tactics. Use range and/or speed rather than plain "gank and tank." Stealth Bombers can't move all that fast when cloaked.
- If you are really skittish... use a cheaper, more "disposable" ship. Yes, that Tengu will be able the clear out a plex in under an hour without breaking a sweat... but a T2-fit Cerberus or Raven is a fraction of that and takes... what? A 15% to 20% reduction in ISK-efficiency? Maybe a bit more effort too? That sounds fair for risking 80 to 90% less of your ISK.
- Check the killboards of the guys cloaking in your system. You can guesstimate their "active times" by seeing when they get most of their kills.
- If you are afraid of normal cynos, get a cyno jammer in your system. If you are afraid of covert cynos... use the above tactics. Very few ships can use covert cynos (see below).

An addendum: Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of cloaking ships can help you immensely.
- Stealth Bombers and Covert-ops ships have [almost] no tank. Any ship with the proper point defenses can breathe on them and they'll pop.
- Recons and T3s all have a targeting delay of about 5 to 7 seconds. Including the time to actually achieve target lock, you have about 7 to 10 seconds to warp off.
- Recons and T3s all suffer from some problem. Poor tank, poor DPS, or poor speed. The only exception to this is the cloaky Proteus. But a heavy neutralizer or two can easily neuter it.
- T3s can't equip covert cynos.
- Black ops ships are exceedingly weak in extended combat due to their poor stats and cannot warp cloaked. But that's a side issue. If one lands on you then you are screwed as they almost never travel alone. To get killed by a Black-ops ship means that you screwed up badly in some way or just got really unlucky.

Quote:
So when I am ratting trying to grind isk to fund my pvp habit every time a new local enters system I need to dock up and go grab a pvp ship to try and find out who they even are, while at the same time they warp off & cloak and now I have no idea what they are in.

No. You should already be in a PvP-fit ship. With a buddy. Who can instalock anyone who decloaks nearby and instapop them.

And the simple fact that you know there is a potential hostile defeats the whole point of "covert-ops" don't you think?

Quote:
Until CCP makes ratting in groups more profitable in 0.0 it wont happen. People are too concerned with their isk/hr ratios.

This is a "person" issue. Not a game mechanics issue. If people are so greedy that they refuse to share ISK with someone who can give their ship better odds of survival... then they deserve no safety at all. Or ISK.

Quote:
And dont forget sometimes the residents dont have enough active players in system to defending.

Seriously? All you need is one person in the right ship to help you. Is it really THAT hard to dredge up one person out of the hundreds, even thousands of others who might be in the same system... doing something similar? Sorry... I find that VERY hard to believe.
Somewhere in your alliance chat is a gullible rookie you can con into watching your back for a paltry amount.


Look, lets cut the crap. An "AFK cloaker" is ONE person... in ONE ship... in a system where a resident has many places to run and hide in... where said resident's corpmates and alliancemates also live in... with all their ships... and all their equipment... which has the capability to deal serious damage to another thousand man alliance... and has yet been "shut down" by ONE MAN?

I don't even think I can begin to articulate how cowardly that sounds. A high-sec miner seems to have bigger gonads than the people who whine about "AFK cloakers." How is that possible you ask? Well... the miner does his trade in a system where local is filled with an innumerable amount of strangers and any one of them could be a potential ganker.

How did you Veterans start?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#37 - 2012-08-09 07:49:01 UTC
^ Good post

and you'd think ribikoka would be able to use one of the ten different alts he uses to back himself up in threads like this to perform one of the roles you suggested, wouldn't you?
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-08-09 08:42:06 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Lot of idiotic answer from gunslinger alt


I'm laughing when i saw those answers.
Cloakers are alone ? Who dreamed this silly answer ?

" Stealth Bombers and Covert-ops ships have [almost] no tank." ROTFL

They easily can use cyno/covert cyno generator. Man they dont need tank enough for them a scrambler, dampener and a cyno and you die.

Rapid response team ? LOL A ratter gonna die between 30-60 seconds no one will save them from adept pvpers. No one will to save them, the time period is too short and impossible to defend all systems. How many time you need to move one or two system range ?
Ratting with PvP ship is not help for anyone, because the rats will shot too and pilot get handicap, furthermore he will suffering income deficits too. (another economic damage suffering from inactive AFK cloaker player)

And you talking about 0.0, maybe you are a pro player and you can build cynojammer in low sec. Lol

Your buddy "facepalm" answer was the biggest ridiculous answer. Maybe you never heard about timezones, when just few players online and players dont have active buddies.
What they do ? Log off because some AFK cloaker in his system got advance against active players ?
And why use cheaper ships reasons of inactive players ? That's not OP for an inactive player ?
Inactive players why affect playstyle for active players ? That's the dumbest thing in this game.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#39 - 2012-08-09 08:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Pro-tip: If you want the rewards of ratting/plexing in nullsec you must deal with the risks. If you are unwilling to deal with the risk, or to put in the effort to counter it, then you're free to head straight back to hisec.

Cloaking is fine as is. Stop being babies.


Everyone is dealing with risks in 0.0 to make some profit. I ninja ratted (gangs running around, solo pvpers trying to catch juicy ratters) for months on war fronts. But i dont want to adapt to broken mechanics really sucks.

As CCP is banning bots that gets u advantages and breaks the game experience for other miners they should tweak the cloaking systems which now get advantages to alliances, hot dropers, mercenaries (they actually get paid to put a net of afk cloakers in attacked regions) and break the game experiences of other ppl by simply not being on comp.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#40 - 2012-08-09 09:12:28 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Untouchable Heart wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Lot of idiotic answer from gunslinger alt


I'm laughing when i saw those answers.
Cloakers are alone ? Who dreamed this silly answer ?

" Stealth Bombers and Covert-ops ships have [almost] no tank." ROTFL

They easily can use cyno/covert cyno generator. Man they dont need tank enough for them a scrambler, dampener and a cyno and you die.


That is one of the risks of living in nullsec. If you can't deal with these risks, why should you get the reward? Go back to hisec.

Untouchable Heart wrote:
Rapid response team ? LOL A ratter gonna die between 30-60 seconds no one will save them from adept pvpers. No one will to save them, the time period is too short and impossible to defend all systems. How many time you need to move one or two system range ?
Ratting with PvP ship is not help for anyone, because the rats will shot too and pilot get handicap, furthermore he will suffering income deficits too. (another economic damage suffering from inactive AFK cloaker player)


What is "LOL" about having friends who can respond to a hostile ship (or group that cynos in) and shoot back? It may seem like a foreign concept to a carebear like yourself, but fighting off enemies - rather than demanding CCP remove them from the game - is kind of what EVE is about.

As for using the PVP ship/fitting... you state you will not do it because it'll damage your bloody isk per hour ratio? Well then you have zero right to complain - you're aware of what you're doing (sacrificing survivability for a slight boost in profit) and willingly made that choice. You can't make those decisions and then pretend you're a victim and ask CCP to change game mechanics because you flat out refuse to adapt or approach situations differently, that's just stupid.

Untouchable Heart wrote:
Your buddy "facepalm" answer was the biggest ridiculous answer. Maybe you never heard about timezones, when just few players online and players dont have active buddies.
What they do ? Log off because some AFK cloaker in his system got advance against active players ?
And why use cheaper ships reasons of inactive players ? That's not OP for an inactive player ?
Inactive players why affect playstyle for active players ? That's the dumbest thing in this game.


Inactive players cannot effect the playstyle of active players. They are inactive. They are not doing anything. If the active players do not want to risk it and make that choice, that is on their heads. They have no one to blame but themselves. As for timezone coverage... well recruit more people. If you have insufficient manpower for your endeavors or to defend yourself, that is a problem with your corporation/alliance, not with any game mechanic. Recruit more players, make friends with neighbouring corporations/alliances, etc. Don't scream to CCP to change the mechanics.

To summarize, stop being a self-entitled coward. Man up, adapt, prosper.