These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#161 - 2011-10-12 14:17:28 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again? Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious. Instead of discussing silly solutions that wreck nullsec such as removing local we need to discuss ways to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked while not ruining active cloaking operations.


Let's try posting it again, since you seem to have missed relatively important parts...

1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. You can't see it anymore, you have nothing to be afraid of, right?

2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. In addition. when cloaked you can no longer be "warped to".

3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#162 - 2011-10-12 14:17:32 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

Removing local will not stop AFK cloaking.



Oh?

With no local the guy is cloaked, you cannot know that he is in the system, and he cannot probe anyone down (since he is.. you know.. cloaked). What then would be the difference between an AFK cloaker in a system with no local, and a logged off guy in a system with local?


And Tippia the thing with missions is that what despawns is the mission registry and not the mission site itself. If there is someone in the mission site when the registry expires or you turn the mission in, the site remains there until that person leaves.


With anomalies not only that wouldn't work, but it would even be grounds for exploitation. It est, if you have two sanctums in a system leave a cloaker of your own on that other sanctum while you finish the current one, and you will have three sanctums.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Endeavour Starfleet
#163 - 2011-10-12 14:18:35 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ingvar, My suggestion will not seriously affect active cloakers. If you are actively cloaked in a wormhole you will receive warning and are able to warp off to change the random point and prevent the decloak for say 10-15 mins to be fair?

What would affect you is CCP saying "Lets just fix this now" and swinging some massive cloak nerf bat. We dont want that


But this affects active cloakers greatly in wormholes! You screw things up like this with your "massive cloak nerf bat". The problem regarding this auto-decloak in holes is that you take away the ambush. You can connect to a static, scan down the sites that need scanning, warp to one cloaked and simply wait. (Yes, you learn patience in the hole.) You may have to wait hours for the ambush to spring, it may never happen. However, being forced to warp all over the place while you're trying to wait is simply foolish and a poorly thought out response to a non-issue. Keep in mind, in a hole you may choose to afk at the ambush point for those hours, flipping over to an alt for example and doing other activities while you wait. You may want to take a bio, get some lunch, run to the store, then come back and see if the prey is in the trap. It could be hours, it could be minutes, it could be never. But, the fact remains that you're ill-though concept would destroy a perfectly viable and acceptible paradigm of wormhole existance, nerfing the inherent dangers in the systems.


Removing the incentive to go AFK while cloaked is my goal. If AFK cloaking was the very center of your PVP then sorry but that is exactly what I want removed. That is not active cloaking that is AFK cloaking.

It is not a massive nerf bat to cloaking. Its a massive nerf to AFK cloaking and activities such as yourself.



EDIT: BTW folks evidence that AFK cloaking affects Wormholes as well as nullsec. So lets focus on finding solutions to AFK cloaking instead of comparing WH to Null.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#164 - 2011-10-12 14:19:00 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again?
Because 1) you're ignoring the alternative solutions that have been presented, and 2) because you can't stay on the topic of AFK cloaking.
Quote:
Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious.
That all depends on what other changes are made, but it most certainly removes AFK cloaking as an issue.
Quote:
Removing the incentive to go AFK while cloaked is my goal.
…which the removal of local will achieve.
Doddy
Excidium.
#165 - 2011-10-12 14:19:49 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again? Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious. Instead of discussing silly solutions that wreck nullsec such as removing local we need to discuss ways to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked while not ruining active cloaking operations.


Then he is not afk is he. Basically it is the cloak you don't like not the afk. There is no point being afk cloaked if there is no local. You could log in another toon on the acc and do something useful instead, then come back and gank someone.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#166 - 2011-10-12 14:20:52 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ingvar, My suggestion will not seriously affect active cloakers. If you are actively cloaked in a wormhole you will receive warning and are able to warp off to change the random point and prevent the decloak for say 10-15 mins to be fair?

What would affect you is CCP saying "Lets just fix this now" and swinging some massive cloak nerf bat. We dont want that


But this affects active cloakers greatly in wormholes! You screw things up like this with your "massive cloak nerf bat". The problem regarding this auto-decloak in holes is that you take away the ambush. You can connect to a static, scan down the sites that need scanning, warp to one cloaked and simply wait. (Yes, you learn patience in the hole.) You may have to wait hours for the ambush to spring, it may never happen. However, being forced to warp all over the place while you're trying to wait is simply foolish and a poorly thought out response to a non-issue. Keep in mind, in a hole you may choose to afk at the ambush point for those hours, flipping over to an alt for example and doing other activities while you wait. You may want to take a bio, get some lunch, run to the store, then come back and see if the prey is in the trap. It could be hours, it could be minutes, it could be never. But, the fact remains that you're ill-though concept would destroy a perfectly viable and acceptible paradigm of wormhole existance, nerfing the inherent dangers in the systems.


Removing the incentive to go AFK while cloaked is my goal. If AFK cloaking was the very center of your PVP then sorry but that is exactly what I want removed. That is not active cloaking that is AFK cloaking.

It is not a massive nerf bat to cloaking. Its a massive nerf to AFK cloaking and activities such as yourself.



EDIT: BTW folks evidence that AFK cloaking affects Wormholes as well as nullsec. So lets focus on finding solutions to AFK cloaking instead of comparing WH to Null.


It has a positive effect on wormholes however. You don't see one single thread complaining about afk cloaking in wormholes, do you? There's a reason for that.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Endeavour Starfleet
#167 - 2011-10-12 14:21:17 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again? Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious. Instead of discussing silly solutions that wreck nullsec such as removing local we need to discuss ways to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked while not ruining active cloaking operations.


Let's try posting it again, since you seem to have missed relatively important parts...

1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. You can't see it anymore, you have nothing to be afraid of, right?

2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. In addition. when cloaked you can no longer be "warped to".

3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away.



That would affect active cloaking! I want to target just the inactive cloakers. An active cloaker ought to be able to keep active and watch for prey to do somthing stupid and hotdrop on them. Being active at the computer ought to be rewarded with good kills not nerfed to hell and back to fix AFK cloaking.

My solution removes the incentive to be away from the keyboard while cloaked. That is what I am targeting with my suggestion.
Endeavour Starfleet
#168 - 2011-10-12 14:23:33 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ingvar, My suggestion will not seriously affect active cloakers. If you are actively cloaked in a wormhole you will receive warning and are able to warp off to change the random point and prevent the decloak for say 10-15 mins to be fair?

What would affect you is CCP saying "Lets just fix this now" and swinging some massive cloak nerf bat. We dont want that


But this affects active cloakers greatly in wormholes! You screw things up like this with your "massive cloak nerf bat". The problem regarding this auto-decloak in holes is that you take away the ambush. You can connect to a static, scan down the sites that need scanning, warp to one cloaked and simply wait. (Yes, you learn patience in the hole.) You may have to wait hours for the ambush to spring, it may never happen. However, being forced to warp all over the place while you're trying to wait is simply foolish and a poorly thought out response to a non-issue. Keep in mind, in a hole you may choose to afk at the ambush point for those hours, flipping over to an alt for example and doing other activities while you wait. You may want to take a bio, get some lunch, run to the store, then come back and see if the prey is in the trap. It could be hours, it could be minutes, it could be never. But, the fact remains that you're ill-though concept would destroy a perfectly viable and acceptible paradigm of wormhole existance, nerfing the inherent dangers in the systems.


Removing the incentive to go AFK while cloaked is my goal. If AFK cloaking was the very center of your PVP then sorry but that is exactly what I want removed. That is not active cloaking that is AFK cloaking.

It is not a massive nerf bat to cloaking. Its a massive nerf to AFK cloaking and activities such as yourself.



EDIT: BTW folks evidence that AFK cloaking affects Wormholes as well as nullsec. So lets focus on finding solutions to AFK cloaking instead of comparing WH to Null.


It has a positive effect on wormholes however. You don't see one single thread complaining about afk cloaking in wormholes, do you? There's a reason for that.


I don't care if wormhole folks do not want to discuss ways to fix the issue. If they want to live with you going out to dinner with the folks and coming back to a free gank because you cant be found no matter if you are known or not. Well that is their buisness. I am targeting AFK cloaking and if that benefits WH users. So be it.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#169 - 2011-10-12 14:23:52 UTC
The funny thing is that people dont wan't "AFK Cloakies" around so THEY can AFK mine.

However... I Still have not seen anyone be able to prove when someone is AFK versus patiently waiting.
If they are AFK, how do they know when to attack you?

One we get some proof that everyone is AFK, then we can work on a solution for it.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#170 - 2011-10-12 14:24:49 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
That would affect active cloaking! I want to target just the inactive cloakers. An active cloaker ought to be able to keep active and watch for prey to do somthing stupid and hotdrop on them.
…and with his suggestion, they can.
Quote:
My solution removes the incentive to be away from the keyboard while cloaked.
…as does the removal of local.
Signal11th
#171 - 2011-10-12 14:25:04 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again? Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious. Instead of discussing silly solutions that wreck nullsec such as removing local we need to discuss ways to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked while not ruining active cloaking operations.


Let's try posting it again, since you seem to have missed relatively important parts...

1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. You can't see it anymore, you have nothing to be afraid of, right?

2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. In addition. when cloaked you can no longer be "warped to".

3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away.



That would affect active cloaking! I want to target just the inactive cloakers. An active cloaker ought to be able to keep active and watch for prey to do somthing stupid and hotdrop on them. Being active at the computer ought to be rewarded with good kills not nerfed to hell and back to fix AFK cloaking.

My solution removes the incentive to be away from the keyboard while cloaked. That is what I am targeting with my suggestion.



That is the problem in reality the only difference between an active cloaker and an inactive cloaker is in your mind, you basically want something to say in large letters "This neut is not active, rat on "

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Signal11th
#172 - 2011-10-12 14:26:27 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
The funny thing is that people dont wan't "AFK Cloakies" around so THEY can AFK mine.

However... I Still have not seen anyone be able to prove when someone is AFK versus patiently waiting.
If they are AFK, how do they know when to attack you?

One we get some proof that everyone is AFK, then we can work on a solution for it.



You sir win this thread with one response, I salute you!

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#173 - 2011-10-12 14:26:51 UTC
BY THE WAY

You guys here know that local as we know it is going to be removed, right!?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#174 - 2011-10-12 14:27:31 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

I don't care if wormhole folks do not want to discuss ways to fix the issue. If they want to live with you going out to dinner with the folks and coming back to a free gank because you cant be found no matter if you are known or not. Well that is their buisness. I am targeting AFK cloaking and if that benefits WH users. So be it.


And this is why your argument fails. You are out to benefit not the game as a whole, but yourself as an individual. Your inability to consider things beyond your own particular aspect of gameplay does not reflect well upon you or the alleged problem. Eve is bigger than you.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#175 - 2011-10-12 14:27:50 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
BY THE WAY

You guys here know that local as we know it is going to be removed, right!?
Shhh! Don't scare the poor guy…
Endeavour Starfleet
#176 - 2011-10-12 14:28:32 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again? Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious. Instead of discussing silly solutions that wreck nullsec such as removing local we need to discuss ways to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked while not ruining active cloaking operations.


Let's try posting it again, since you seem to have missed relatively important parts...

1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. You can't see it anymore, you have nothing to be afraid of, right?

2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. In addition. when cloaked you can no longer be "warped to".

3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away.



That would affect active cloaking! I want to target just the inactive cloakers. An active cloaker ought to be able to keep active and watch for prey to do somthing stupid and hotdrop on them. Being active at the computer ought to be rewarded with good kills not nerfed to hell and back to fix AFK cloaking.

My solution removes the incentive to be away from the keyboard while cloaked. That is what I am targeting with my suggestion.



That is the problem in reality the only difference between an active cloaker and an inactive cloaker is in your mind, you basically want something to say in large letters "This neut is not active, rat on "



No, I want something to say "Contact is decloaked" And then I want my combat proves to locate the ship and then I want to kill it.. I don't want the system to say its safe I want to destroy the AFKer and pod him. If he/she is moving in the large time it takes to scan down the random point to decloak him (And by AFK ignoring the warnings he is about to be decloaked) he/she wont eat my missiles.

If the contact is in my system and goes away from keyboard. I want to be able to kill it 15-30 mins later.
Endeavour Starfleet
#177 - 2011-10-12 14:29:46 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
BY THE WAY

You guys here know that local as we know it is going to be removed, right!?


IF that happens it will be replaced with somthing of equal use. Anything otherwise would wreck nullsec and CCP knows it.

Having free ganks each and every day is a fantasy. If somehow it happened you would have them for a few months before people leave Nullsec and EVE in droves now can we focus on the topic please?
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#178 - 2011-10-12 14:31:17 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

I don't care if wormhole folks do not want to discuss ways to fix the issue. If they want to live with you going out to dinner with the folks and coming back to a free gank because you cant be found no matter if you are known or not. Well that is their buisness. I am targeting AFK cloaking and if that benefits WH users. So be it.


wow... this discussion is becoming very very pointless. you just want an easy time ratting in 0.0, without fear and risk. Maybe you want a handy readout of the neut in local of his weaponsystems too, and maybe the fleetcomp of the to-be-hotdropped enemy fleet? sheesh.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#179 - 2011-10-12 14:32:36 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
IF that happens it will be replaced with somthing of equal use. Anything otherwise would wreck nullsec and CCP knows it.
Actually, no. They know that it shouldn't be of equal use, because local is far too cheap and effective.

…and no, nullsec will not be wrecked by this downgrade.
Quote:
No, I want something to say "Contact is decloaked"
You already do.
Quote:
If the contact is in my system and goes away from keyboard. I want to be able to kill it 15-30 mins later.
I repeat: why is that needed?
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#180 - 2011-10-12 14:35:59 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
BY THE WAY

You guys here know that local as we know it is going to be removed, right!?


IF that happens it will be replaced with somthing of equal use. Anything otherwise would wreck nullsec and CCP knows it.

Having free ganks each and every day is a fantasy. If somehow it happened you would have them for a few months before people leave Nullsec and EVE in droves now can we focus on the topic please?


Won't be of equal use. At least not everywhere.

CCP has hinted that they want to replace local with something similar only for sov upgraded systems so that the defenders have an advantage. Everywhere else is fair game.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.