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Crime & Punishment

 
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C&P, this pertains to YOU

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Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#161 - 2012-08-06 18:00:26 UTC
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
Saithe wrote:
jimmyjam wrote:
Does this apply to 0.0 as well?


Yes, this will apply to every sentry gun on gates in 0.0 as well.


WTF! This will kill 0.0 PVP!!! EvilEvilShockedOops

Roll




No special privileges for you! All your 0.0 gate and station guns will be affected or mass unsubs will happen.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Saithe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-08-06 18:35:06 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
Saithe wrote:
jimmyjam wrote:
Does this apply to 0.0 as well?


Yes, this will apply to every sentry gun on gates in 0.0 as well.


WTF! This will kill 0.0 PVP!!! EvilEvilShockedOops

Roll




No special privileges for you! All your 0.0 gate and station guns will be affected or mass unsubs will happen.


No no, not station guns, this applies just to sentry guns on GATES. In 0.0.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#163 - 2012-08-06 19:15:32 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Just to clarify a few points, given that this thread seems to be the only one that's not gone off the deep end already:
[list]
  • First and foremost, this is an idea we were spitballing at the time and ran past the CSM just to see what their reaction was. It's still "in the design" right now, but that part of the design isn't going to get implemented for a while, and there will be further discussion with the CSM and the community before that happens. The CSM minutes are *NOT* a devblog, please don't treat them as such Smile


    • Not for nothing, but there's a good reason people went off the deep end when the notes got worded like this is a change that is coming soon...

    "Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time."

    Devblog or not, a CCP person saying, "This will now happen," carries weight. Keep that in mind :)

    I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
    Tark Grethor
    Imperial Shipment
    Amarr Empire
    #164 - 2012-08-06 19:48:22 UTC
    I see where this is heading. In tomorrows health and safety conscious Eve the will be no "Unsafe" space and we'll all be friends. Think Demolition Man style utopia with on the spot isk fines for saying naughty things in chat Shocked
    Ristlin Wakefield
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #165 - 2012-08-06 20:18:55 UTC
    I think this calls for zombie apocalypse event in EVE. There should be a Borg-like race that assimilates spacecraft for a week (preventable if pilot self-distructs of course) and makes them red to all non-assimilated ships and allied to all assimilated ships. The goal of the assimilated ships is to assimilate other ships (by bringing someone down to hull and using the assimilator module, of course) and the goal of the "free capsuleers" will be to purge New Eden of this threat.

    At the end of the event, the Jove step in with "pwn fleet" and ends the threat once and for all, because we all know assimilated side will be winning (of course).

    I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
    Chimpy B
    The Philosophy Of Two
    #166 - 2012-08-06 21:40:31 UTC
    I like this idea. Low sec gate camping really puts people off going there.

    The damage from the low sec gate sentries is too easy to tank these days, they may as well not be there.
    Michael Harari
    Genos Occidere
    HYDRA RELOADED
    #167 - 2012-08-07 03:52:44 UTC
    Chimpy B wrote:
    I like this idea. Low sec gate camping really puts people off going there.

    The damage from the low sec gate sentries is too easy to tank these days, they may as well not be there.


    The damage from sentries is irrelevant to the typical gatecamp since they arent on the gate unless someone is jumping through.
    Dograzor
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #168 - 2012-08-08 09:41:35 UTC
    CCP Greyscale wrote:

  • The general thinking behind this potential change (and again, it's just general thinking, we've not seriously reviewed it yet) is to try and break up "static" gatecamps a little and generally *discourage* hanging around on a gate all day.
    • [/list]


    You want to try and break up static gatecamps. Alright... let me have a look at that.

    Just to put things in perspective & compare it:

    What seems to be ok nowdays:

    Highsec: It's ok for wardeccing corps to hang on gates/stations waiting for a fleet/target to jump in. I've done Merc work, been there done that, happens all the time. For the larger picture, Eve-Uni blobs come to mind who like sitting on gates when they are at war. Not to mention all the neutral logi stuff.

    Lowsec: It's ok for FW faction frig fleets to hang on gates waiting for stuff to jump through and gank it.

    Nullsec: It's ok to bubble gates 100km in every direction with dramiels orbiting it so they can decloak any cloaky non t3 stuff... with the rest of the backup hanging around somewhere.

    What seems not to be ok nowdays:

    Lowsec: Players with outlaw security status engaging on gates, either through roams or camps.

    Now I know Eve never has been about fair.. But it does seem that your possible change will specifically give the outlaw community the middlefinger..

    We need more love to lowsec then a sentry gun change..

    Please give the outlaw community changes that are actually worthwhile, if not, please keep things as they are Pirate
    Luscius Uta
    #169 - 2012-08-08 11:54:13 UTC
    Was there a problem with gateguns in lowsec? I think not. Yet there's always some idiot wanting to fix stuff that ain't broken in spite of all serious bugs and imbalances still slapping us in our faces. But that should come as expected when CCP pulls ideas out of their asses instead of listening to player's suggestions. No carebear will ever enter lowsec again if they know that even an interceptor can tackle them at gate, and I thought that CCP said at this year's Fanfest they want to bring more people to lowsec??

    And the idea is to stop "hanging around on a gate all day"? LOL! Does such things ever happen? Because if you hang around on a gate all day, someone will eventually notice and inform people in the neighbouring highsec system that they shouldn't go into your system because the gate is camped. Also, being involved in more than few gatecamps, normal procedure is to warp to a safespot after succesfull engagement until your gcc and gate aggro timer expires, and under new rules gategun damage will probably reset after that time (if not, I'll either extend my wait or move to another system with "cold" gateguns). Even if I have a logistic ship or carrier to rep the sentry gun damage, there's totally no point in tanking them more than I have to as every shot will reset their aggro timer back to 15 minutes. The only thing I hate about lowsec gatecamps are smartbombing battleships and this change won't put an end to them - now when I think of it, Pandemic Legion had a Titan smartbombing at gate in Amamake few months ago, while a Titan might be able to tank the gategun damage all day long, we all want to see more silly Titan pilots smartbombing at gates...especially if they get blobbed by Dread fleet, right?

    Workarounds are not bugfixes.
    VanDam
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #170 - 2012-08-08 11:59:04 UTC
    I would wager that the vast majority of the playerbase are not aware of the content of patches as they are released, other than hearsay they come accross from various channels in game.

    If this change were to come in, I wonder how long it will be before a lone carrier get's tackled on a gate by an interceptor and held there for 4 minutes until it pops Big smile.
    Longinius Spear
    Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
    #171 - 2012-08-08 14:44:11 UTC
    Gate humping pirate tears, best tears.

    Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com
    Michael Harari
    Genos Occidere
    HYDRA RELOADED
    #172 - 2012-08-08 17:25:14 UTC
    Longinius Spear wrote:
    Gate humping pirate tears, best tears.


    This change will have no negative effect on any "professional" gatecamp. On the contrary, they will now be able to use interceptors to have a very good chance of decloaking and pointing your cloaky ship.
    Jude Lloyd
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #173 - 2012-08-09 16:09:49 UTC
    Miura Bull wrote:

    Low sec in EVE reminds me of an inner city ghetto. Kids with ski masks ganging up on someone and threatening to stick em if he doesn't give up his chain and the $5 in his wallet. Pimped out "economy" class space ships flying around because nice rides get left on a stack of bricks with nothing left but the stale air freshener you were supposed to change 5 months ago. Seedy people hanging outside the stations wearing aviators, smoking a cigarette, eyeing people up until they see someone weak enough they can take his pocket change to get themselves a cup of coffee. You all get the idea.


    Hahaha exactly.

    I'm back!
    Karl Planck
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #174 - 2012-08-09 16:13:02 UTC
    Miura Bull wrote:

    Low sec in EVE reminds me of an inner city ghetto. Kids with ski masks ganging up on someone and threatening to stick em if he doesn't give up his chain and the $5 in his wallet. Pimped out "economy" class space ships flying around because nice rides get left on a stack of bricks with nothing left but the stale air freshener you were supposed to change 5 months ago. Seedy people hanging outside the stations wearing aviators, smoking a cigarette, eyeing people up until they see someone weak enough they can take his pocket change to get themselves a cup of coffee. You all get the idea.


    awesome, i think this is my new bio. tyPirate

    I has all the eve inactivity
    Oxymor
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #175 - 2012-08-11 09:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxymor
    CCP Greyscale wrote:

    The general thinking behind this potential change (and again, it's just general thinking, we've not seriously reviewed it yet) is to try and break up "static" gatecamps a little and generally *discourage* hanging around on a gate all day.


    Maybe you could instead of forcing ppl play like you want to give them reason to play like you want. Ppl are at a gate for a reason, there is no reason to be elsewhere. Thus if you wanna see ppl or pvp you need to go where they are...

    just to clarify, what i meant for people having a reason being at a gate was not to pvp but to move around. why they are at a station is to be safe and to use the services like market, but there is not much reason to be at a planet or a belt. If you wanted to give a reason to go there you could introduce a mechanic that required everyone visit celestial every few jumps to refuel for example.
    Herzog Wolfhammer
    Sigma Special Tactics Group
    #176 - 2012-08-12 08:40:23 UTC
    Honestly the only problem with these changes, if they are changes at all (and not final anyway), is that everybody knows about them. Twisted

    Bring back DEEEEP Space!
    Pinky Feldman
    Amarrian Vengeance
    Ragequit Cancel Sub
    #177 - 2012-08-12 13:47:42 UTC
    I fully support this change. CCP more or less broke highsec war decs, so I think its time lowsec felt the pain of CCP's wrath. Also, anything that generates this amount of pirate tears must be worthwhile.

    The moar you cry the less you pee
    SB Rico
    Sumo Wrestlers
    #178 - 2012-08-16 11:00:34 UTC
    As a representative of an infamous boy scout group... Sorry camping group time to throw in my 2 cents worth I feel.

    On the face of it this change could be seen as another step towards elimination of griefing in the game, war decs have been messed with and reading forums leads me to believe they are broken. Suicide ganking has been made slowly a less viable thing. So now CCP appear to turn their eyes to low sec...

    OK let's look at the issue:

    The non-pirate element in EVE and those who wish to avoid PVP are nervous about entering low sec to go about their business. Certain gates are practically no go zones due to heavy camping. This leads to a series of complaints to CSM/CCP.

    So CCP float an idea to resolve it.

    OK will this eliminate either the camps or the infamous smartbombers?

    No.

    Within a few minutes of hearing about this I had tactics to survive. So Low Sec will not become safer in this way.

    So what will it mean?

    An end to fleet fights in low sec?

    Given 99% of fleet fights in low sec happen on gates or stations with one side or the other going GCC (with the exception of FW) this is a very real possibility. It will get me flamed to say this but there is a calculation as an FC done before you engage on a low sec gate which includes the gate guns. Increased time on the gate with increasing gate gun fire means it is unlikely many FCs would be prepared to engage a mid sized fleet.

    Not what I perceive to be the purpose of low security space.

    Additionally some people have argued that gate guns are too easily tanked. Personal experience says that this is not true. In order to camp in low sec we need to use BC or T2 cruisers as a minimum. Additionally any ship used has to be fitted for tank rather than alternative styles (e.g. Pure nano). So ship type and fits are actually limited. It is also worth noting that a static camp really needs 3-4 pilots minimum to share the current damage from gate guns without having to leave the grid.

    Finally, CCP are obviously driven to respond to feedback so here is a little factoid to consider. There is a higher proportion of players running multiple accounts among pirates than carebears (for obvious reasons). So per head more money is being put into the CCP coffers as a result of the pirate community than the carebear community. The Pirate community is also notoriously bad at representing itself on the CSM which is dominated by certain large Null Sec groups who block vote (a comparisson could be drawn with the rotten boroughs of English History). Maybe it is time we spoke up a little more and support eachothe

    Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

    Killing me should be for free.
    SB Rico
    Sumo Wrestlers
    #179 - 2012-08-16 11:17:41 UTC  |  Edited by: SB Rico
    ANGRY23 wrote:
    Scion Lex wrote:
    I have given this alot of thought in the last day or so and, initially, I was totally outraged like a lot of other pirates. Then I realized that this isn't about piracy as much as its about gate camps.


    Gatecamping is piracy. Piracy is a career path in eve online according to CCP. If the devs namely greyscale fixed what was broken in thier game before trying to add useless content the majority of the player base doesnt want or need then CCP would be living up to what they claim to be aiming for. Right now they are talking the talk but they still aint walking the walk, i thought incarna was enough and things were looking up and CCP were actually listening to the playerbase again and not just sticking in useless content regardless of the feedback from us the players who at the end of the day pay these guys wages through subscriptions.

    I challenge any of you to find content added to the game in the last 5 years that encourages ppl to take the piracy career path. Its a hard pill to swallow for older players who have subbed multiple accounts for over 6 years just to see CCP constantly nerf thier playstyle. Eve needs to be balanced but cmon, we got stabs, cov ops frigs, cruisers andhaulers, mwd cloak trick, drones are useless, sentry guns, system avoidance tool, target breaker modules and even a micro jump drive coming soon to contend with before we even think about engaging anything. Are those not enough of a disadvantage before we even undock and shoot anything without adding even more content that gimps what we do.

    I urge the pirate community to come together regardless of our differences and what we think of each other and be one loud voice against the nerf after nerf after nerf to our dying playstyle. We been promised low sex loving for over 5 years and i dont see anything not related to FW that encourages PPL to take up piracy in eve online.

    I have created a channel for like minded corps/alliance to discuss the crusade by ccp to kill piracy. Join ingame "Stop the Rot"

    Angry23



    Apart from supporting my CEO here I would like to point out to those pirates who sneer at gate camping a little expression...

    Thin end of the wedge.

    Look at Suicide ganking over the last few years...

    CCP speed up concorde response, CCP declare boomerang an exploit, CCP make it impossible to warp when you gank, CCP ramp up Mining barge/Exhumer survivability.

    Small changes that combined seriously hinder a playstyle.

    So this may not affect your playstyle today

    But if this happens what could come next?

    CCP greyscale decides that concorde frigates should appear in belts to shoot but not scram agressors? Then why not add them into mission sites or plexes? After all this would encourage players to mine or mission in low sec now they can get past the gates.

    This may not affect you today but it could well affect you tomorrow, so for once lets stop bitching among ourselves and actually defend ALL our playstyles before they are slowly removed for "the good of the game." Fact is CCP seem to love making small changes that lead up to massive ones.

    Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

    Killing me should be for free.
    Eugene Kerner
    TunDraGon
    Goonswarm Federation
    #180 - 2012-08-16 11:20:37 UTC
    SB Rico wrote:
    As a representative of an infamous boy scout group... Sorry camping group time to throw in my 2 cents worth I feel.

    On the face of it this change could be seen as another step towards elimination of griefing in the game, war decs have been messed with and reading forums leads me to believe they are broken. Suicide ganking has been made slowly a less viable thing. So now CCP appear to turn their eyes to low sec...

    OK let's look at the issue:

    The non-pirate element in EVE and those who wish to avoid PVP are nervous about entering low sec to go about their business. Certain gates are practically no go zones due to heavy camping. This leads to a series of complaints to CSM/CCP.

    So CCP float an idea to resolve it.

    OK will this eliminate either the camps or the infamous smartbombers?

    No.

    Within a few minutes of hearing about this I had tactics to survive. So Low Sec will not become safer in this way.

    So what will it mean?

    An end to fleet fights in low sec?

    Given 99% of fleet fights in low sec happen on gates or stations with one side or the other going GCC (with the exception of FW) this is a very real possibility. It will get me flamed to say this but there is a calculation as an FC done before you engage on a low sec gate which includes the gate guns. Increased time on the gate with increasing gate gun fire means it is unlikely many FCs would be prepared to engage a mid sized fleet.

    Not what I perceive to be the purpose of low security space.

    Additionally some people have argued that gate guns are too easily tanked. Personal experience says that this is not true. In order to camp in low sec we need to use BC or T2 cruisers as a minimum. Additionally any ship used has to be fitted for tank rather than alternative styles (e.g. Pure nano). So ship type and fits are actually limited. It is also worth noting that a static camp really needs 3-4 pilots minimum to share the current damage from gate guns without having to leave the grid.

    Finally, CCP are obviously driven to respond to feedback so here is a little factoid to consider. There is a higher proportion of players running multiple accounts among pirates than carebears (for obvious reasons). So per head more money is being put into the CCP coffers as a result of the pirate community than the carebear community. The Pirate community is also notoriously bad at representing itself on the CSM which is dominated by certain large Null Sec groups who block vote (a comparisson could be drawn with the rotten boroughs of English History). Maybe it is time we spoke up a little more and support eachothe


    Hear him, hear him

    TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP