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Can we get a ship to bridge between indy's and freighters please
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Zak Lonestar
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#1 - 2012-08-07 02:40:57 UTC
So the "next step" is an Industrial with an average of 5k capacity, upt o around 30-40 maxed out with all the goodies. From there you go to a freighter with a capacity of nearly a million.

Thats the real world equivalent of being able to get a cargo van or a supertanker.

It would be nice to get a hauler that you could at least shove a packaged BS and some modules into. A nice sized hauler with 75 to 100k and a low slot or 3.
Lojak 2501
Unitum Investigationis et Progressus
#2 - 2012-08-07 02:46:40 UTC
Zak Lonestar wrote:
So the "next step" is an Industrial with an average of 5k capacity, upt o around 30-40 maxed out with all the goodies. From there you go to a freighter with a capacity of nearly a million.

Thats the real world equivalent of being able to get a cargo van or a supertanker.

It would be nice to get a hauler that you could at least shove a packaged BS and some modules into. A nice sized hauler with 75 to 100k and a low slot or 3.



*not trying to troll*

i nominate an orca
90k hold, 40k in corp hanger, and a 400k for the maint array

cant move a rigged and fitted BS as far as i know but can for a packaged 1 rather nicely
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#3 - 2012-08-07 02:47:45 UTC
+1
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#4 - 2012-08-07 02:57:43 UTC
Orca would only apply if you didnt have to do so much mining related training to fly one.

So some sort of Orca copy that doest give mining bonuses and doesnt require that kind of training would be fine.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-08-07 04:06:31 UTC
+1


I dont need nor want to get all that useless training for an orca. No I dont mine or boost, I just need a bigger delivery truck.
Alara IonStorm
#6 - 2012-08-07 04:25:49 UTC
I could go for a ship like this if it couldn't pick up jet canes, had a reasonable sized tank (90-120ish), didn't have significant agility / speed improvements over a freighter and required the freighter skill.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-08-07 04:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
The biggest problem with using an orca as a middle-ground solution between industrials and freighters is that the orca requires almost twice as much training for a "from scratch" player as a freighter does. You can be in a freighter in 35 days while an orca will take closer to 55 days. Mind you that this is without implants and with a poor stat arrangement for this sort of training, and as such the training times can, and should, be lower, but the relation of nearly 2:3 in favor of the freighter will still exist.

Frankly while I wouldn't mind seeing a ship to legitimately take a place between industrials and freighters and be even remotely in line with the training required for them I frankly just can't see CCP implementing it. For starters it would require either adding 4 new ships or it would require creating a new ORE ship with training requirements that are secondary if not completely unrelated to industrials and freighters. Either method would result in quite a few issues.

That said a modified orca hull with approximately the same HP values, zero high slots, an extra low and mid slot, only 5km3 corporate cargo space (if you aren't on mining ops you don't need 40km3 and using it to hide stuff from ship scanners should be discouraged) at most, 500km3 ship maintenance bay space, a base cargo capacity of 40,000km3, and the following bonuses would be nice.
Role Bonus:
25% reduction in capacitor required to warp
+1 to warp engine strength (or whatever the old transport ship bonus was)

ORE Industrial Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to cargo space and agility per level.

The ship should probably also see a reduction in capacitor from 4,200 GJ to 3,500-3,700 while the 800s recharge time remains.

It still won't be hauling assembled battleships around, but then I don't really see that as much of an issue since as I understand it freighters can do it with courier contracts. It'll be slightly more defensible than the orca and have less capability to hide cargo from suicide gankers while still being able to support a fleet.

I'm iffy on whether or not the fitting service should be removed. Frankly I'm tempted to nix it just to try to weasel out another 50km3 ship maintenance bay space, but I'm not sure how plausible that would be. Likewise I'd be tempted to support reducing the power grid and CPU on the grounds that it's excess given the inability to fit gang links and using that to justify bumping up the shield HP a bit.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-07 06:00:38 UTC
Belthazor4011 wrote:
Orca would only apply if you didnt have to do so much mining related training to fly one.

So some sort of Orca copy that doest give mining bonuses and doesnt require that kind of training would be fine.


That's something that's annoying me as well. Orca makes a perfect mobile base - ability to maintain ships, decent cargo hold, faster than freighters and enough slots to make it viable in a large number of situations. Yet, when you train for it, you're forced to train a number of mining skills, even though you might never intend to use it for mining, even though I dare say that most people use it as a "light freighter" far more often.
GreenSeed
#9 - 2012-08-07 06:10:33 UTC
A new ship type in between would obsolete indys. Not sure if anyone here ever played it, but there’s an awesome sim game called transport tycoon deluxe that has a fancy solution. (there’s an open source version if you want to try it out :p)

In this game, ships (trains, freight ships, trucks) can be retrofitted to specialize them in one specific type of cargo. The idea would be to allow the basic indy hull to carry anything with the current cargo hold (just like it is now), or specialize on one specific type of cargo, and get a bonus to the hold. (Using a rig, or one of those subsystem slots that only t3 gets to use) that way the basic hull is versatile while a specialized can fit more of that specific item.

The idea is to allow a ship like the iteronV that can only move 3 capital armor plates and some other random stuff, specialize on that type of cargo and move eight or more plates, but be restricted only to that type of cargo (capital components) unless it retrofits again for something else.

That way we could allow current ships to be WAY more efficient at their job, having an iteron V move an assembled and rigged battleship is possible while not letting them obsolete freighters.

This would ofc need a small buff to current indy ehp... or make this change not available on t1 indys and only on t2 blockade runners. (Pretty useless ships as they are now.)
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#10 - 2012-08-07 06:25:31 UTC
+1

Always wondered why the huge step between indies and freighters myself. Would love to see a step in between for those that have a bunch to haul but no where near the freighter bay size, and dont want to train all the extra skills they wont use for an Orca.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-08-07 06:27:26 UTC
what is, orca?

There is no Bob.

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IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#12 - 2012-08-07 07:12:25 UTC
How about another freighter with 100k cargo? Give it 2 low slots to compensate. They already take like no time to train, so I wouldn't want to see anything with lower skill reqs.

Then nerf the orcas corp hauling because its silly that its both the 2nd best hauler and the safest.
Katalci
Kismesis
#13 - 2012-08-07 07:29:10 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
+1


I dont need nor want to get all that useless training for an orca. No I dont mine or boost, I just need a bigger delivery truck.

I don't do Graviton Physics invention, but I have to train it for hictors. HTFU
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-08-07 07:42:47 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
This would ofc need a small buff to current indy ehp... or make this change not available on t1 indys and only on t2 blockade runners. (Pretty useless ships as they are now.)


Please stop posting.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#15 - 2012-08-07 09:59:14 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I could go for a ship like this if it couldn't pick up jet canes, had a reasonable sized tank (90-120ish), didn't have significant agility / speed improvements over a freighter and required the freighter skill.

it's called jump freighter Lol
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#16 - 2012-08-07 11:29:20 UTC
just redo the stats on the blockade runner till you guys draw something boxy up, like a t3 hauler or something.

No one uses the bustard any way.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-08-07 11:45:39 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
just redo the stats on the blockade runner till you guys draw something boxy up, like a t3 hauler or something.

No one uses the bustard any way.


lol Blockade runners have nothing to do with this... you probably mean deep space transports aka bustard/impel etc.

orca does the job betweeen transport and freigther just fine imho.

shar'ra phone home
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-08-07 11:55:46 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
just redo the stats on the blockade runner till you guys draw something boxy up, like a t3 hauler or something.

No one uses the bustard any way.


Sigh, seriously, two posts under my comment, another person does the same mistake.

Bustard is NOT a Blockade Runner. Try again :)
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#19 - 2012-08-07 12:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: StoneCold
Zak Lonestar wrote:
So the "next step" is an Industrial with an average of 5k capacity, upt o around 30-40 maxed out with all the goodies. From there you go to a freighter with a capacity of nearly a million.

Thats the real world equivalent of being able to get a cargo van or a supertanker.

It would be nice to get a hauler that you could at least shove a packaged BS and some modules into. A nice sized hauler with 75 to 100k and a low slot or 3.


Bestower (lvl 5, all CE II) got almost 16k
Itheron 5 (lvl 5, all CE II) got over 25k
Orca (lvl5, all CE II) gets close to 61k

If you don´t want to train for a freighter - there are several hauling services ingame for low bucks (i know because i use them myself regulary).

My true stories
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-08-07 12:51:13 UTC
Belthazor4011 wrote:
Orca would only apply if you didnt have to do so much mining related training to fly one.

So some sort of Orca copy that doest give mining bonuses and doesnt require that kind of training would be fine.

This is my opinion. Pretty much since its introduction, I've wanted orca T2s or variants with a different focus and training path. The orca as it is now is a great mining platform, but also sees a lot of use as a hauler, minicarrier, and for filling several more exotic niches, like a wormhole popper. The one thing that's undeniably a problem with any of these except mining is the prerequisite path.

The main thing would be accessing these new pseudoorcas from synergistic skill trees, rather than perpendicular ones. They could very easily pull prerequisites from the path you'd take to train actual carriers and freighters. There are skills for each that don't have much or any application to the previous ships. Think about the carrier, once you train BS V and related support skills, you could still have lots of skills left to train. If we had an orca that required, let's say, Advanced Spaceship Command IV, Warp Drive Operation V and Science V, as well as a specialized skill or two, we could have a much smoother transition from BS to Carrier, especially for someone seeking the logistical carrier-specific roles BSes can't fill over than the "loadsadrones" one.

While new role-focused bonuses would be great for these variant orcas, even if they were simply stripped of their mining boosts and given as-is, they would likely see plenty of use.

StoneCold wrote:
[Bestower (lvl 5, all CE II) got almost 16k
Itheron 5 (lvl 5, all CE II) got over 25k
Orca (lvl5, all CE II) gets close to 61k

If you don´t want to train for a freighter - there are several hauling services ingame for low bucks (i know because i use them myself regulary).

If you're going all out and using rigs, the orca will push 100k at all 5s and cargo expanded. And don't forget about the 40k corporate hangar and 400k ship bay. Even the ore bay (and charges in the ships) can be useful if you're using it as a trade vessel. It would be a very nice step between industrials and freighters if it weren't for the prereqs.

As far as hauling, you're right. It takes a LOT of moving cargo to pay off a freighter, and if you make the most of the cargo space they offer, Red Frog and other services are very reasonably priced.
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