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Herr Hammer Draken
#101 - 2012-08-07 06:05:26 UTC
6 pages of poor me. Man up or GTFO! Where else are you going to find a game even close to this?
Month tops and he will be back for his fix.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#102 - 2012-08-07 06:17:06 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
I kinda agree with the OP. My favourite times in EVE was when it was a risky confusing mess.

Strange but true.

Now I try on clothes for a living in my CQ.


I actually LOLed at that last line.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#103 - 2012-08-07 06:19:08 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Where else are you going to find a game even close to this?

If the crimewatch changes come to pass, the EVE pvp experience won't be that far off from that of a pvp WoW server. That's a more or less objective statement based on many years of experience with each game, made by quantifying the average time/loss ratio for each game. In fact, even at this point, I can safely say that there are a few ways to cause more loss of time for people in WoW compared to EVE.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#104 - 2012-08-07 06:19:48 UTC
Lilianna Star wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:


Okay, thank you for clarifying, and I will indeed try to answer your question as best I can. But first, I need to explain the foundation of my thinking.

Currently, due to the basic architecture of the game (and I'm speaking to the literal architecture- how the systems are generated, the database structures on the servers etc.) gates are the chokepoints that force players together, and systems operate in a cellular structure that is mostly unavoidable unless you have a jump capable ship. Regardless, you still have to have a cyno. Anywhere you can cyno in/out, there is local. In w-space, cynos don't work. But, in w-space you don't have local broadcasting your presence either.

CCP has made it impossible to sneak around. Small groups can't avoid larger, everyone knows your coming, etc. etc. etc.

Every change CCP does, it makes this issue worse. They have reduced the window of contact by adding warp to zero, by installing jump bridges, by adding jump freighters, by basically allowing defenders to escape as easily as possible. More HP, less peak DPS, nerfing sensor boosters so that they lock slower. On and on and on. Less and less lethal.

There are a tremendous amount of changes in this game that have been done for the convenience of the player. They're simply making the environment 'easier', just for the sake of making the game 'easier'. Easier is not better. Having the majority of the students pass the test doesn't mean it's a good test. It means that the test is too easy. If everyone can pass it, then what is the point of competing?

People ask for 'easy' because they're lazy. They want everything handed to them. They think that it's only hard for them. They don't understand that it's hard for everyone and if they work at it they'll have an advantage.

So, most everyone that is reading my posts is focusing on the detail- what is right in front of them. But I'm talking about the big picture. The biggest picture there is- the core game design and its fundamental structure. It used to be hard, it used to be difficult. It used to be good. And now it's not.


Thank you for this post. No really, thank you. I legitimately love what you wrote here.

Sometimes it feels like people just want to make it hard on other players for its own sake. But you gave me an adequate description as to WHY this is harming the game.

And reading this, I actually agree with you. Null and low sec needs to be seriously looked at. Because, although I do love null sec, it leaves a lot to be desired and it could be so much more.

CCP, this needs to be seriously looked at. I like high sec being carebear land. Sometimes I want to undock without the omnipotent feeling that everyone is out to get me. But at the same time, I also want nullsec to be vibrant, dangerous and rewarding. With a lot of chaos. And order within chaos. All people trying to make much more money playing smart than they would in high sec. And giving pirates and opportunity to profit from the risks they're taking.


You're most welcome.

I think that you might like the three threads linked in my sig. Some of my ideas for improved game design for Eve. Heck, one of them is even about mining... can't say I don't take all areas of the game into account with regard to needing improvement...

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#105 - 2012-08-07 06:20:53 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Eh, don't bother pointing out the NPC-corpers. With some very rare exceptions, all of the "htfu ganker" people are going to post on alts. Fear is a defining characteristic of these people, and handily coincides with the stance they take toward the game.


Yeah, but CCP is no longer properly dismissing them as inconsequential, as they always should.

That is a problem.

Why does CCP think that they are not a problem?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#106 - 2012-08-07 06:23:51 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Eh, don't bother pointing out the NPC-corpers. With some very rare exceptions, all of the "htfu ganker" people are going to post on alts. Fear is a defining characteristic of these people, and handily coincides with the stance they take toward the game.


Yeah, but CCP is no longer properly dismissing them as inconsequential, as they always should.

That is a problem.

Why does CCP think that they are not a problem?


While forum asshats are free to stereotype people, CCP has bills to pay.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#107 - 2012-08-07 06:28:48 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Eh, don't bother pointing out the NPC-corpers. With some very rare exceptions, all of the "htfu ganker" people are going to post on alts. Fear is a defining characteristic of these people, and handily coincides with the stance they take toward the game.


Yeah, but CCP is no longer properly dismissing them as inconsequential, as they always should.

That is a problem.

Why does CCP think that they are not a problem?


While forum asshats are free to stereotype people, CCP has bills to pay.



Lol. No one is stereotyping.

When something is true of a group, it's called a trait. Not a stereotype.

Yourself for example: you made a mistake, you got banned with your main, now you're using an NPC corp char to dodge the ban. You're evading accountability. It's a trait.

And I don't point it out because I have a problem with it. I point it out because I think it's funny.

NPC corp generally (not always) = douchebag

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2012-08-07 06:32:17 UTC
This thread has had a mild clean up, with some troll posts removed. Please remain respectful and on topic, and in future please post responsibly.






Thread has been cleaned of troll posts - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Pilna Vcelka
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-08-07 07:04:09 UTC
My opinion on OP and his opinions: Its time you bitter die-hard vets GTFO already, really.

Im laughing my *** off so hard at all of your "make a lot of effort to succeed" and "work hard to accomplish something". Get a ******* life kid, because this is a video game and those are supposed to be fun, not pain.

If you feel like you need to accomplish things by working hard, maybe its time you got your far a** away from your PC and started making your real life better instead of pursuing a tough internet guy career.

CCP: Keep on the good work, for every bitter no-lifer leaving the game due to the game becoming more of a game and less of a job, youll get 2 or 3 or more new subs instead.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#110 - 2012-08-07 07:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Psychotic Monk wrote:
I know that feel, bro. We'll keep doing the work and hopefully some day the conditions will be right for the good people to come back.

Let us know if you find something better.


They won't. This is the point.
Whether people grow up and put up a family or just get bored (after so many years it's possible) then the result is the same: a constant turnover of old players that leave and new ones who join.

Sadly the modern players are sons of the '68 pseudo-socialist "WE HAVE RIGHTS! WE ARE ENTITLED!" parents and there's nothing to do to make them as resilient or even with any form of will or desire for challenge.

What can CCP do, when there's a generational shift toward spineless? CCP also play a PvP game, they on one side with their 20k concurrent online players (assuming their own published 2.5 alts per account / some stay logged off ofc) vs the idiot friendly, millions of subs giants.

That's also why it's important for CCP to try hold the old players, they preserve the "ancient mood" of the game, once they are gone then it's WoW-heads and CCP can't do anything but restrict their playerbase more and more. Or give in and make EvE just another piece of easy poo and then lose all.
CCP certainly are in for some hard choices come the next years.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#111 - 2012-08-07 07:10:24 UTC
Pilna Vcelka wrote:
CCP: Keep on the good work, for every bitter no-lifer leaving the game due to the game becoming more of a game and less of a job, youll get 2 or 3 or more new subs instead.

Who will stay for 51 days each.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#112 - 2012-08-07 07:11:45 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Eh, don't bother pointing out the NPC-corpers. With some very rare exceptions, all of the "htfu ganker" people are going to post on alts. Fear is a defining characteristic of these people, and handily coincides with the stance they take toward the game.


Yeah, but CCP is no longer properly dismissing them as inconsequential, as they always should.

That is a problem.

Why does CCP think that they are not a problem?


While forum asshats are free to stereotype people, CCP has bills to pay.



Lol. No one is stereotyping.

When something is true of a group, it's called a trait. Not a stereotype.

Yourself for example: you made a mistake, you got banned with your main, now you're using an NPC corp char to dodge the ban. You're evading accountability. It's a trait.

And I don't point it out because I have a problem with it. I point it out because I think it's funny.

NPC corp generally (not always) = douchebag


First of all, I made no mistake.

I paid for this account, so to say I am avoiding accountability is naive. I use this character to succeed at Eve, its not even on the same account.

I have 12 characters and one opinion. You are using the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy when talk your NPC corp rhetoric.
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-08-07 07:11:48 UTC
2 questions here:

1) CCP making gate guns so good you cant have gate camps in low secs with the following updates?


2) I am still missing OPs point.... sounded like he really enjoyed the gate camp feature which is considered a rather low value for PVP content by a lot of folks so why quit cause of that just kills me, please elaborate a bit more.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#114 - 2012-08-07 07:15:28 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
What can CCP do, when there's a generational shift toward spineless? CCP also play a PvP game, they on one side with their 20k concurrent online players (assuming their own published 2.5 alts per account / some stay logged off ofc) vs the idiot friendly, millions of subs giants.

That's also why it's important for CCP to try hold the old players, they preserve the "ancient mood" of the game, once they are gone then it's WoW-heads and CCP can't do anything but restrict their playerbase more and more. Or give in and make EvE just another piece of easy poo and then lose all.
CCP certainly are in for some hard choices come the next years.

They could develop a new game if they're after the Facebook bucks, instead of changing something that has a proven history of working well (albeit with a low growth rate). No one says CCP has to be a one-game company. They're taking a risk in casualizing EVE, which might not necessarily pay off. In fact, I'd venture to bet that it won't, simply because other MMOs do the pve stuff waaaaaay better.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Pilna Vcelka
Doomheim
#115 - 2012-08-07 07:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Pilna Vcelka wrote:
CCP: Keep on the good work, for every bitter no-lifer leaving the game due to the game becoming more of a game and less of a job, youll get 2 or 3 or more new subs instead.

Who will stay for 51 days each.


Im a newbie who loves carebearing, hates nerdy bitter vets and has stayed over 5,5 months already.

*snip*


EDIT: There will none of that kind of talk thank you. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling are not welcome in a good conversation as they serve only to drag it in to the gutter.



Personal attacks, trolling and flaming removed - ISD Type40.
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#116 - 2012-08-07 07:24:55 UTC
Pilna Vcelka

Center for Advanced Studies


way to prove a point Lol
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#117 - 2012-08-07 07:24:58 UTC
Strrog wrote:
2 questions here:

1) CCP making gate guns so good you cant have gate camps in low secs with the following updates?


2) I am still missing OPs point.... sounded like he really enjoyed the gate camp feature which is considered a rather low value for PVP content by a lot of folks so why quit cause of that just kills me, please elaborate a bit more.


I'm not leaving over the gate gun issue. Not for the reason you're thinking, at any rate. I'm not leaving because I won't be able to gate camp. I'm leaving because it's just a dumb choice to spend effort on when CCP could implement any number of changes that would have a greater and more positive effect. It's the thought process behind the change that is the issue, not the change itself.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#118 - 2012-08-07 07:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Pilna Vcelka wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Pilna Vcelka wrote:
CCP: Keep on the good work, for every bitter no-lifer leaving the game due to the game becoming more of a game and less of a job, youll get 2 or 3 or more new subs instead.

Who will stay for 51 days each.


Im a newbie who loves carebearing, hates nerdy bitter vets and has stayed over 5,5 months already.

*snip*



So much delicious anger! I just can't wait for you to be super-butthurt over a change to carebearing, something that you have never seen before whilst carebearing, something like a real challenge.

Your tears will be absolutely divine, like a fine, fine wine running down your cheeks into the river of LOL.


EDIT: Pardon the intrusion, just editing that quote - ISD Type40.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Pilna Vcelka
Doomheim
#119 - 2012-08-07 07:40:20 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
So much delicious anger! I just can't wait for you to be super-butthurt over a change to carebearing, something that you have never seen before whilst carebearing, something like a real challenge.

Your tears will be absolutely divine, like a fine, fine wine running down your cheeks into the river of LOL.


That has happened before and there were no tears. Because EVE PvP is not worth any tears, because its just plain dumb. Fights are decided before they even start and for a newbie with no veteran back-up, the outcome is always the same.

I never risk anything I would regret losing and the few times I got caught, I just stood there waitign for my ship to explode and my pod pop, ignoring the incoming convos telling me how terribad I am and the values of ransoms I should pay and following hatemails telling me how I suck for carebearing and you know what?

It seems it made them PvP sl*ts even more angry and depressed because I didnt really give a **** about their F1 pewpew. Thats where I win EVE, a newbie in an npc corp who will be gradually more and more catered to. Thats where all of you bitter vets lose, spilling tears of nostalgy and praying for a "hardcore uber evil video game" which wiill never work if made for profit.

Boo-hoo!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#120 - 2012-08-07 07:41:39 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Strrog wrote:
2 questions here:

1) CCP making gate guns so good you cant have gate camps in low secs with the following updates?


2) I am still missing OPs point.... sounded like he really enjoyed the gate camp feature which is considered a rather low value for PVP content by a lot of folks so why quit cause of that just kills me, please elaborate a bit more.

I'm not leaving over the gate gun issue. Not for the reason you're thinking, at any rate. I'm not leaving because I won't be able to gate camp. I'm leaving because it's just a dumb choice to spend effort on when CCP could implement any number of changes that would have a greater and more positive effect. It's the thought process behind the change that is the issue, not the change itself.

Well, at least the next time around you can look at the next incremental change and be all like "it doesn't affect me, I'm doing [next activity to not be real pvp/never intended to be profitable]"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?