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Nightmare or Machariel?
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#1 - 2012-08-06 07:32:04 UTC
Nightmare or Machariel? That is the question.

My main can fly a nightmare and it does a really good job (I mission in Amarr space) yet I keep seeing all this hype around the mach. It seems (EFT) to do slightly less damage than the nightmare at comparable ranges with similar levels of pimping. It is however, faster.

Is it just the speed? Because from where I'm sitting, the Nightmare seems to be the better ship for all except cargo delivery missions.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#2 - 2012-08-06 13:38:31 UTC
Nm for amarr space.

Mach for fun.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#3 - 2012-08-06 15:20:42 UTC
Mach also uses a crap ton of ammo. But totally depends on NPC type.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-08-06 15:43:39 UTC
while the mach does a little less paper dps at most ranges, you should consider the following advantages:
- you do not need to reship if you get a gurista or angel mission, just switch ammo
- you're faster which helps with speed tank as well as blitzing
- better tracking than a tach nightmare partly offsets the falloff penalty

if none of these sound convincing, stick to the nightmare. i like flying nightmare myself because it's just so much fun to oneshot battlecruisers @50km ;)

I should buy an Ishtar.
Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-08-06 16:40:22 UTC
I only dislike the Mach on missions with lots of useless scenery buildings blocking my flightpath, like Gone Beserk.
Kaomi Zorbaz
Claint Industries
#6 - 2012-08-06 17:52:22 UTC
Mastin Dragonfly wrote:
I only dislike the Mach on missions with lots of useless scenery buildings blocking my flightpath, like Gone Beserk.



Just started doing lvl4's this weekend. And Gone berserk came up. I was thinking the exact same thing when watching the NPCs get stuck on the structures lol

Made a nice amount of money from it. Those amarr BS's drop lots of tachyon beams. Pulled about 20ish million in loot and salvage from it and another 10ish million in bounties.
Cpt Greywolf
Wolves and Knights
#7 - 2012-08-06 18:39:48 UTC
In my opinion fly the Mach, the dps may appear lower however the tank is far better, and the dps may seem lower but don't forget that the rats have resistances that may hinder the nightmare's ability to blap them; whereas the mach can switch ammo to a more relevant damage type
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2012-08-06 18:44:47 UTC
Mastin Dragonfly wrote:
I only dislike the Mach on missions with lots of useless scenery buildings blocking my flightpath, like Gone Beserk.


I lost my first and only Raven on that one. It was named ******** Sealion. It lived up to its name perfectly, repeatedly beating various flippers on the scenery. It was not missed.
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#9 - 2012-08-06 20:43:58 UTC
I have used both. There is nothing that is going to beat a NM against em\thermal weak rats. The tank is just fine and you have enough mids to fit a 100mn mwd to get to gates and a sensor booster to increase lock times and still have a decent tank.

... What next ??
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#10 - 2012-08-06 21:13:06 UTC
I generally fit my Nightmare with a tracking computer unless I know there are large distances to cover. Seems to me that the main attraction of the Mach is the speed... sorta like the only thing the Tengu has going for it in missions is its speed. Yet people still love it.

"It goes fast! It must be good!"
Lady Aja
#11 - 2012-08-07 03:36:18 UTC
askign people on the forums which of the two you should fly is like asking joe public what fruit to eat. apple or orange

end of the day only YOU can answer it.

I say nightmare due to the lack of ammo it does not use but only use it in amarr/khanid space.
if you are in minmatar space use the mach just be warned it EATS up a shed load of ammo.
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2012-08-07 04:58:48 UTC
my fits, I love both ships! for the em/therm missions (bloods/sansha/drones/most mercs) I get the nightmare wins. stuff just spawns too far out for me to prefer the mach. in gone berserk you warp in and can just hit everything think it was gamma or xray to kill the first trigger ship and can use multi for everything else.

for angels extra the mach is god. The anomaly the 1400m/s with mwd make the mach awesome. Dread pirate Scarlet can swap to arty for blitzing and getting the double bounty. stop the thief the machs agility makes it a bit quicker for blitzing.

for guristas missions I'd rather not use either. but I'm split on which to take. for the assault, intercept the saboteurs, and guristas spies I'd take the nightmare, as when blapping a bunch of small stuff at long range I'd say base damage is most important as frigs will still die to one gun shot from the nightmare and Guristas bcs take about 5-6 shots. for worlds collide (gur/serp) and guristas extra I'd rather have the mach although you won't get either in amarr space.

for damsel I'd think either one would be fine, probably a bit of an advantage to the mach.

[Nightmare, Tachs pve]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam II
Auto Targeting System II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x2

[Machariel, mwd 800s]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Gist A-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
Auto Targeting System II

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
[empty rig slot]


Warrior II x5
Berserker II x4

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#13 - 2012-08-08 08:44:36 UTC
if your flying amarr missions: use a nightmare
if your flying minmitar missions: use a machariel

if you get to pick between amarr and minmitar, go with minmitar cause alot of the angel ships orbit close which means you can rip through them faster with more dps, angels also dont have tracking disruptors, angels also have angel extravaganza and other awesome missions.

if your flying in caldari or gallente space your just stupid and enjoy your sensor damps and jamming

♞
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#14 - 2012-08-09 03:42:11 UTC
^^^ that
Ginger Barbarella
#15 - 2012-08-09 20:28:36 UTC
I've used both, and kinda prefer the Nightmare. Used it in both Caldari and Amarr space with T2 sentries and other T2 drones, Meta3 lazors, and your basic non-officer modules, and it works beauty. The Mach really never thrilled me. Maybe some day.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Solomunio Kzenig
The Intrinsic Ones
#16 - 2012-08-10 10:58:10 UTC
If you like instant ammo swap, pick the NM. If you like hauling ammo around by the freighter load, pick the Mach.

But seriously, it has been said before, both are fantastic ships; but use them against their 'correct' NPC enemies and you will do great, use them outside of their correct NPC ennemies and they will look ordinary.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#17 - 2012-08-10 11:00:04 UTC
Got a pretty nicely skilled Nightmare now, swapping to train for a Mach... I suspect it's going to suffer the same issues as the Tengu, where its all hype and... just not that good.

But we'll see.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#18 - 2012-08-10 11:29:39 UTC
the tengu is very good at some very specific things. imo if you just throw it at every mission it won't look very good.

I would say the mach is pretty good and at bunch of things, throwing it at every mission mostly works it just doesn't hit very hard at long range the speed helps with that, I mean for the anomaly I wouldn't pick anything other than the mach. nightmare also has some issues. but that is mostly damage type, I mean I don't want to run AE in a nightmare

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#19 - 2012-08-10 11:44:33 UTC
The Tengu is very good for some things. Exploration being the main one. But for missions, its not really that hot. There are a few it does well in though.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#20 - 2012-08-11 11:06:06 UTC
I had the opposite feel swapping from a Mach to a Nightmare, where the NM just seemed to do poor dps overall. The only thing the NM could compete against a Mach in nullsec anom running was Forsaken Hubs, using pulse fit with smartbombs to augment the damage.

Given the align and speed advantage I'd run Mach vs. most missions. Speed tanking is a bonus option, not something you want to do all the time because your gain in transversal will lower your own dps. Align times, however, matter a lot in the fast missions.

Versus Sanshas I'd say a Navy Dominix is a strong contestant for the #1 damage projector as well. It's pushing 1350dps to 50km with +5 implants, and half of that dps will not be affected by tracking disruption. Granted the kinetic damage component gets resisted somewhat.