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Wormholes

 
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new POSes and wormholes - what do w-space dwellers need?

First post
Author
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-08-06 02:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Bane Nucleus wrote:
As long as they don't gimp lower class wh's with "lesser POS's" I am good with change.


move to a real WH?

seriously tho, Force Fields are just about essential.
If you remove them, you just make fighting near a POS into station camping bullshit, just like station fighting right now.

the changes are good overall but for me, removal of the force field is a deal breaker.

in this day and age of technology, having it removed for 'technical reasons' is just a lame way of saying they are too lazy to code it properly and hence is not a valid reason.
if they have a legit gameplay reason that i can't think of, i would love to hear it but please keep the 'technical reasons' crap out of it.

There is no Bob.

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Marzuq
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#22 - 2012-08-06 06:21:09 UTC
Oh boy docking games wonderful. Had enough of that bullshit in k-space.

This would only be acceptable in my opinion if you could put plant bombs on the dock areas. If they undock the bombs go off and damage their ship, if they dock the bombs will damage them as well.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#23 - 2012-08-06 06:23:53 UTC
I personally do not favor the idea of bringing docking games to POSes.

But I think the issue with forcefields is that it makes certain ships and weapons useless when you want to destroy a pos.

The removal of forcefields will no longer render smaller weapons and blasters useless when trying to damage a pos.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#24 - 2012-08-06 09:24:10 UTC
Two step wrote:
CCP has their reasons for not wanting to have forcefields anymore. The exact reasons got NDA'd out of the CSM minutes, but they are reasonable. As for sitting outside a new POS's docking point, you might be able to do that, but they might also have webs, points and guns to cover that exit. So if you attack that person undocking, they can just dock back up and let their defenses attack you.

I do agree that having some sot of indication via scan probes or d-scan of a pos being offline/out of fuel would be a good thing. I also agree that showing how many people are docked or maybe even what ships they have active would be a really important part of a new system. Frankly, if I have to give that up to get all the other benefits, I think it is worth it though.


I really, strongly disagree. Any new system MUST provide full visibility of players doing something in their POS as well as a way for 'docked' players to see what's going on around them.

If you want to be invisible, sit somewhere in a cloaked ship. But as soon as you want to change your ship, take something from your hangar or do anything else, it must be fully visible to everyone.

And from the other side, when I log on and 'undock' from my POS and find that ten guys have bubbled my undock and I can't leave, how ******* lame is that? We don't want this crap in our w-space.

I'm very sceptical about these POS plans. Keep in mind that most of us went into w-space because it's so much better than k-space. Don't bring to us what we intentionally left behind!

.

Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#25 - 2012-08-06 10:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Perspective people, perspective. The defining difference between w-space and k-space is security status, lack of local and completely different requirements for navigation and logistics, not that w-space dwellers live in POS:s. K-psace has the exact same POS system available after all. Claiming that POS:s alone are the reason why w-space is what it is seems like a massively exaggerated kneejerk reaction to a so far uncertain change, since change is SCAAAARYYYYYYYY, and uncertainty is DOUBLEMEGASCAAARYYYY.

Seriously, current POS mechanics suck hairy monkey balls. I trust the judgement of CCP and Two Step on what could be done to change it.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#26 - 2012-08-06 10:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
just dont let greyscale anywhere near the issue, thats what I want

jesus christ I just read the part about dropping forcefields and allowing people to camp the undock of a pos. What a god awful idea. ****-cages can already be quite effective at shutting down a pos, except with some fast/cloaky ships having the ability to burn out, but this... this is just mental. Absolutely everyone hates docking games, why bring it to nullsec/wspace?

Give us proper fitting services and try and improve the management/roles/security issues. Thats it, really.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#27 - 2012-08-06 10:50:38 UTC
Of course it's only one aspect, but an important one. I'm a little concerned that Two steps personal opinions (which are legitimate of course) will pass for "what wormhole dwellers want" in sight of CCP (who obviously have little to no own knowledge of wormhole life for the most part ).

Docking is in itself a bad mechanic. A player leaves the universe and suddenly is in a windowless environment, unconnected to space and completely safe. It's even bad from an immersion point of view. Most modern games simulating a world try to be seamless, have no loading times and not have separate 'levels' but only one world where you go from one place to the next without interruptions.

The real way forward would be to create some kind of station environment that still leaves you in space. Zoom in to see your ship hangar and indulge in ship spinning, zoom out and see the space surrounding the POS/station. Including access to d-scan.

And when viewing such a POS, we can see a 'guest list' like in a station from the outside.

If there has to be POS-docking, one way to go could be to give POSes multiple undock tubes we can select, like up, down, left, right, front, rear if it's cubicle-shaped. That way in a siege the attackers would have to block all six undock tubes to prevent the inhabitants from undocking.

.

Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#28 - 2012-08-06 10:55:11 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
The real way forward would be to create some kind of station environment that still leaves you in space. Zoom in to see your ship hangar and indulge in ship spinning, zoom out and see the space surrounding the POS/station. Including access to d-scan.

And when viewing such a POS, we can see a 'guest list' like in a station from the outside.

If there has to be POS-docking, one way to go could be to give POSes multiple undock tubes we can select, like up, down, left, right, front, rear if it's cubicle-shaped. That way in a siege the attackers would have to block all six undock tubes to prevent the inhabitants from undocking.

I like this.
kapolov
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-08-06 10:55:43 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Of course it's only one aspect, but an important one. I'm a little concerned that Two steps personal opinions (which are legitimate of course) will pass for "what wormhole dwellers want" in sight of CCP (who obviously have little to no own knowledge of wormhole life for the most part ).

Docking is in itself a bad mechanic. A player leaves the universe and suddenly is in a windowless environment, unconnected to space and completely safe. It's even bad from an immersion point of view. Most modern games simulating a world try to be seamless, have no loading times and not have separate 'levels' but only one world where you go from one place to the next without interruptions.

The real way forward would be to create some kind of station environment that still leaves you in space. Zoom in to see your ship hangar and indulge in ship spinning, zoom out and see the space surrounding the POS/station. Including access to d-scan.

And when viewing such a POS, we can see a 'guest list' like in a station from the outside.

If there has to be POS-docking, one way to go could be to give POSes multiple undock tubes we can select, like up, down, left, right, front, rear if it's cubicle-shaped. That way in a siege the attackers would have to block all six undock tubes to prevent the inhabitants from undocking.


You also have to include the fact that they want to bring it in a station like effect. Where all other stations are (LS, HS and Null), they already have local as an intel tool for possible threats. While i am not proposing we get local in WH's it needs to be looked at from our point.

The problem is that they do only have Two steps views on this and we have no clue that a Dev even reads the WH section. But we need more people to input to this thread to at least show Two Step what his fellow WH people think about it, at least before next elections...
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#30 - 2012-08-06 11:00:01 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Perspective people, perspective. The defining difference between w-space and k-space is security status, lack of local and completely different requirements for navigation and logistics, not that w-space dwellers live in POS:s. K-psace has the exact same POS system available after all. Claiming that POS:s alone are the reason why w-space is what it is seems like a massively exaggerated kneejerk reaction to a so far uncertain change, since change is SCAAAARYYYYYYYY, and uncertainty is DOUBLEMEGASCAAARYYYY.

Seriously, current POS mechanics suck hairy monkey balls. I trust the judgement of CCP and Two Step on what could be done to change it.


Here's what there judgement is:


NEED MOAR STATION GAMES.


They can $@$!@ off until they fix station aggro timers.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#31 - 2012-08-06 11:09:30 UTC
No one would have voted for two step if we'd known he wanted to bring docking games to wormholes. Too late now though, eve in roo-ins, already unsubbed all eighty seven of my accounts, burning jita, etc
Prez21
D-sync
D-sync.
#32 - 2012-08-06 11:36:44 UTC
I think its safe to say that Pos mechanics arent the best, but if anyone thinks that by removing FF and allowing people to dock will improve things, well it just shows how stupid people can be. CCP is just getting lazy and im starting to think they are further out of touch with this game than i ever thought, turning w-space into docking games is just sad and stupid and wont improve the gameplay in the slightest.

Next they will be adding local and sticking concord on wormholes. if these changes arent done properly and are done without listen to the feedback of the people they will affect the most then ccp could destroy and entire aspect of their game, and possibly lose a few accounts along the way.
Prez21
D-sync
D-sync.
#33 - 2012-08-06 11:39:47 UTC
Two step wrote:
CCP has their reasons for not wanting to have forcefields anymore. The exact reasons got NDA'd out of the CSM minutes, but they are reasonable. As for sitting outside a new POS's docking point, you might be able to do that, but they might also have webs, points and guns to cover that exit. So if you attack that person undocking, they can just dock back up and let their defenses attack you.



Seriuosly who voted you in for CSM? nobody wants to have docking games and station bullshit in w-space, i couldnt think of a worse way to play this game and your a complete idiot for even trying to justify being able to dock in w-space.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#34 - 2012-08-06 12:18:48 UTC
Prez21 wrote:
Two step wrote:
CCP has their reasons for not wanting to have forcefields anymore. The exact reasons got NDA'd out of the CSM minutes, but they are reasonable. As for sitting outside a new POS's docking point, you might be able to do that, but they might also have webs, points and guns to cover that exit. So if you attack that person undocking, they can just dock back up and let their defenses attack you.



Seriuosly who voted you in for CSM? nobody wants to have docking games and station bullshit in w-space, i couldnt think of a worse way to play this game and your a complete idiot for even trying to justify being able to dock in w-space.


I did, though I wasn't aware that he had a stiffy for docking-games and wanted to push them onto POS
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#35 - 2012-08-06 13:07:31 UTC
Have to agree with the rest of the gang, station games would be a very bad thing to happen in W-space.
Duramah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-08-06 13:13:36 UTC
Station games? A big yes! Whilst we are at it let's get motherships to be able to enter wh's. Hell why not introduce cyno's to work and have local again. +1
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#37 - 2012-08-06 13:41:27 UTC
Duramah wrote:
Station games? A big yes! Whilst we are at it let's get motherships to be able to enter wh's. Hell why not introduce cyno's to work and have local again. +1


and lets make the wormhole connections fixed and permanent
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#38 - 2012-08-06 14:31:28 UTC
Two step wrote:
CCP has their reasons for not wanting to have forcefields anymore. The exact reasons got NDA'd out of the CSM minutes, but they are reasonable.

You'll forgive us if we have a hard time trusting reasons that are kept behind closed doors. We're talking about CCP making major changes to the mechanics of wormhole life and combat, and if the best they can muster is "trust us, we know what we're doing"...do I really need to make a list of all the things that have been screwed up with that mentality?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Lexylia
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-08-06 14:34:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexylia
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Duramah wrote:
Station games? A big yes! Whilst we are at it let's get motherships to be able to enter wh's. Hell why not introduce cyno's to work and have local again. +1


and lets make the wormhole connections fixed and permanent


Also a really nice thing would be if you can get SOV on Wormholes and Wormhole Constellations!! Would be reallly really cool lets do this! While we speaking of improving WH to the best, I always wanted titanbridge work in a WH, so i can cyno into other WH´s and make funny hotdrops \o/
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#40 - 2012-08-06 15:11:44 UTC
It hasn't been ****** up yet, so we'd better be constructive here. If this thread degenerates into an endless rant, no one important will read it.

Ok maybe nobody will read it anyway, but there's still a chance Blink

.