These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Planned lowsec sentry "fix" - you guys serious?

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mag's
Azn Empire
#601 - 2012-08-05 21:22:39 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
I called smart-bombing battleships fat and lazy and no-skill, which other than fat (admittedly it's not a fair descriptor), they most certainly are. It's the laziest, least skillful form of PVP in EVE.
Of course you know this, because you're proficient at it? Because only those with knowledge of a subject, would make such claims.

Nerf Burger wrote:
Ensign X wrote:


It makes sense that you'd want to defend your "way of life" so vigorously, and who can blame you? But it's obvious that you're unwilling to see any side of the story that isn't your own or that conflicts with the means you feel you have to resort to in order to make a living.


He's in my CCP praising thread too, throwing around insults in a temper tantrum. Funny that he claims it is other ppl are butthurt and mad. Lol

I guess its no surprise comming from the "pvpers" this game produces.
I am? I'd like to see where exactly. Maybe you could point me out. At the same time, show where I said anyone was butt hurt and mad.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#602 - 2012-08-05 21:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Mag's wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
I called smart-bombing battleships fat and lazy and no-skill, which other than fat (admittedly it's not a fair descriptor), they most certainly are. It's the laziest, least skillful form of PVP in EVE.
Of course you know this, because you're proficient at it? Because only those with knowledge of a subject, would make such claims.

Nerf Burger wrote:
Ensign X wrote:


It makes sense that you'd want to defend your "way of life" so vigorously, and who can blame you? But it's obvious that you're unwilling to see any side of the story that isn't your own or that conflicts with the means you feel you have to resort to in order to make a living.


He's in my CCP praising thread too, throwing around insults in a temper tantrum. Funny that he claims it is other ppl are butthurt and mad. Lol

I guess its no surprise comming from the "pvpers" this game produces.
I am? I'd like to see where exactly. Maybe you could point me out. At the same time, show where I said anyone was butt hurt and mad.



Oh, i thought he was responding to the maddy at the top of the page. my bad.
Marsaac
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#603 - 2012-08-05 21:26:59 UTC
This is probably the worst thing I've ever heard, I've lived in low sec almost all of my Eve career as a pirate. This change would effectively kill everything we do, we like to run bcs but if this goes through it sounds like a bc will get insta poped after a minute. Most of our fights are on gates with gcc against FW, this just seems like a total **** you to pirates by giving FW a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge advantage.
Amaya Rei
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#604 - 2012-08-05 21:34:23 UTC
seriously CCP, I rarely chime in, but this is craziest thing I've ever seen posted.

I've lived in lowsec 95% of my 7 year eve career, this will kill the game for me, and many many others.

*facepalm*
Tirelion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#605 - 2012-08-05 21:43:09 UTC
Terrible fix, this is completely pandering to FW while giving a huge middle finger to pirates. It's not about gate camps, it's about people not being able to fight on gates in lowsec unless you are FW fighting other War Targets. This will ruin piracy in this game, a profession that CCP uses to help market EvE, and it wont ruin it because we can't "gate camp", it will ruin it because we won't even be able to roam with gcc, since when you roam, fights happen on gates. I am really dissapointed with CCP and Hans on this, the idea is so mentally ******** and ill concieved that it defies intelligent thought of any kind. Next time you are going to propose a new mechanic CCP, why not figure out what the REAL repercussions are going to be. Again, anyone who thinks this is ACTUALLY about gate camps and not roaming pirate fleets is just stupid.
Hitman 001
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#606 - 2012-08-05 21:53:39 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
get raped whiners. There were too many mechanics to protect the carebear pirates. Great work CCP for putting some risk into being an aggressor.




obiusly you dont know how GCC works and you get shot by gateguns when you agroo.
Tirelion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#607 - 2012-08-05 21:59:24 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
get raped whiners. There were too many mechanics to protect the carebear pirates. Great work CCP for putting some risk into being an aggressor.


Careful there, your stupid is showing. You might want to put it away.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#608 - 2012-08-05 22:15:39 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Still yet to hear any valid arguments to why more people entering low-sec is a bad thing. Just going, "your dumb, etc" doesn't work im afraid. Also suggesting "i don't know what im talking about", like most random insults in eve, are effectively a shot in the dark, cause i'm afraid you don't know me. Makes me laugh when the pirate croud shout "carebear!" and stuff at people that disagree with them, as if they must be for not having the same viewpoint.

Improved gate-guns in conjunction with increased low-sec rewards, means more people in and around low-sec. More targets means more explosions! Literally a win, win.

The only argument made against this is to protect your source of easy kills. The suggestion that it would "kill low-sec pvp" is just laughable. More that it would kill low-sec pvp for those players unable to actually hunt down targets, which i guess must be the guys complaining and threatening mass unsubs (never gonna happen).


having more people in lowsec would be great! the thing is some of use don't see anything in this change that will bring more people to lowsec.

hunting down targets is pretty easy, and I'm not even all that good with probes. and usually gives an advantage to the attacker, hello easy kills! if your excuse for not being in lowsec right now is the camps and they get rid of the camps (which as argued in this thread it won't) you will just change to oh I don't go to lowsec because I'll get ganked in a mission/belt/anom.

nearly all the camping I have done was small gang (around 5 I'd say), and there I'd say the guns are about perfect. they destroy your drones and put some extra dps on you. big camps sentries become nearly worthless although these are pretty rare and easy to avoid so meh. gang vs gang fights happen sometimes sentries are a nice little advantage, with the proposed change sentries become an absolute advantage as long as you can live a few mins.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#609 - 2012-08-05 22:15:41 UTC
Marsaac wrote:
This is probably the worst thing I've ever heard, I've lived in low sec almost all of my Eve career as a pirate. This change would effectively kill everything we do, we like to run bcs but if this goes through it sounds like a bc will get insta poped after a minute. Most of our fights are on gates with gcc against FW, this just seems like a total **** you to pirates by giving FW a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge advantage.


Hhhhuuuuuuuge advantage?? Have you seen my security status or that of 99% of my alliance??? We like to get our Yaaaarrrrr on too, this idea that FW pilots are thrilled to have less PvP content around gates to pew with whenever our enemies aren't out and about just isn't true. Many of us are just as concerned about the elimination of gatecamps as you are.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Tirelion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#610 - 2012-08-05 22:21:52 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Marsaac wrote:
This is probably the worst thing I've ever heard, I've lived in low sec almost all of my Eve career as a pirate. This change would effectively kill everything we do, we like to run bcs but if this goes through it sounds like a bc will get insta poped after a minute. Most of our fights are on gates with gcc against FW, this just seems like a total **** you to pirates by giving FW a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge advantage.


Hhhhuuuuuuuge advantage?? Have you seen my security status or that of 99% of my alliance??? We like to get our Yaaaarrrrr on too, this idea that FW pilots are thrilled to have less PvP content around gates to pew with whenever our enemies aren't out and about just isn't true. Many of us are just as concerned about the elimination of gatecamps as you are.

So are you supporting the gate gun change or not then? Because if you are, then you can't cry out as being concerned that camps might get eliminated. Also, as I previously stated the changes proposed ARE NOT really about gate camps, its about not being able to actually roam. People talking about "learn to hunt better!" really don't know what they are talking about. This proposed mechanic change will kill lowsec ROAMING pvp.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#611 - 2012-08-05 22:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Tirelion wrote:

So are you supporting the gate gun change or not then? Because if you are, then you can't cry out as being concerned that camps might get eliminated. Also, as I previously stated the changes proposed ARE NOT really about gate camps, its about not being able to actually roam. People talking about "learn to hunt better!" really don't know what they are talking about. This proposed mechanic change will kill lowsec ROAMING pvp.


Yes, this is exactly what I've already posted internally in my notes to CCP Greyscale. I am firmly of the belief that you make low sec better (in its current form) by allowing more PvP, not by trying to lure more carebears into low sec with a sense of security to engage in lucrative / fun content that isn't really there. Making gate guns safer for travel isn't going to flood lowsec with new activity to be scanned down and attacked off gate, cause there just isn't a wealth of interesting things to do off-gate to begin with.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Tirelion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#612 - 2012-08-05 22:39:18 UTC
Whew, that's good, I didn't want to regret voting for you...with all three of my characters Blink
Elliot Vodka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#613 - 2012-08-05 22:47:20 UTC
I like anything that can mix things up.

For better or worse everyone will have to change tactics to adjust for this.

Its like a mass butf**** to everyone who has been doing the same thing so long that they cant comprehend any other way to accomplish something.

Thats comedy my friend.

Who will adapt the fastest?

The whiners or those who can exploit a better fix?

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?"
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#614 - 2012-08-05 22:48:15 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
I called smart-bombing battleships fat and lazy and no-skill, which other than fat (admittedly it's not a fair descriptor), they most certainly are. It's the laziest, least skillful form of PVP in EVE.

Every time some new Greyscale change comes out of the closet, it always concerns one or another form of non-consensual player interaction. That type of interaction immediately becomes the "laziest, least skillful form of PVP in EVE." First it was wars, then it was suicide-ganking, and now it's low-sec gate-camping. It seems to me that in the bears' eyes, all forms of pvp denote lazy, skill-less activities. And why shouldn't they think that way? After all, they spend their time painstakingly mining Veldspar, and then calculating how much Tritanium they need for two runs of a Raven BPO. It's difficult, honest labor!

God forbid these people would take an extra thirty seconds to warp to a celestial before warping to the next gate from a different angle, so as to avoid the smartbombs entirely. They simply can't spare the time from their busy, productive EVE lives for that kind of endeavor.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#615 - 2012-08-05 22:49:58 UTC
Tirelion wrote:
Whew, that's good, I didn't want to regret voting for you...with all three of my characters Blink


Well thanks, I really appreciate that. And I totally understand everyone wanted the satisfying "HELL NO THIS IS HORRIBLE" response during the summit, but I knew there would be plenty of time afterwords to hash all this out. I know this didn't come across in the minutes, and its a great lesson for future transcriptions to check for language and tone. Like I said, I was more excited that they willing to ease up on the frigate brutality, and I didn't want to give a knee-jerk response that left CCP Greyscale the impression we didn't want this touched at all. (Some don't, and that's valid) I'm still hearing from most of you that there are some worthwhile ways we can tweak gate guns to enhance PvP on gates (tracking, range), just obviously not by making them into UBERWTFPWNED beasties.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#616 - 2012-08-05 23:04:15 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I'm still hearing from most of you that there are some worthwhile ways we can tweak gate guns to enhance PvP on gates (tracking, range), just obviously not by making them into UBERWTFPWNED beasties.

The simplest solution is to make them do damage based on signature radius, and to make tracking a factor to make speed tanks viable, at least for a short time (a tackled frigate won't move fast, so now players will be required to take initiative to exploit the sentries to their own advantage). This too would make frigates able to tank sentries for a while.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Tirelion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#617 - 2012-08-05 23:09:14 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I'm still hearing from most of you that there are some worthwhile ways we can tweak gate guns to enhance PvP on gates (tracking, range), just obviously not by making them into UBERWTFPWNED beasties.

The simplest solution is to make them do damage based on signature radius, and to make tracking a factor to make speed tanks viable, at least for a short time (a tackled frigate won't move fast, so now players will be required to take initiative to exploit the sentries to their own advantage). This too would make frigates able to tank sentries for a while.



This is a decent idea
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#618 - 2012-08-05 23:10:58 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
I called smart-bombing battleships fat and lazy and no-skill, which other than fat (admittedly it's not a fair descriptor), they most certainly are. It's the laziest, least skillful form of PVP in EVE.

Every time some new Greyscale change comes out of the closet, it always concerns one or another form of non-consensual player interaction. That type of interaction immediately becomes the "laziest, least skillful form of PVP in EVE." First it was wars, then it was suicide-ganking, and now it's low-sec gate-camping. It seems to me that in the bears' eyes, all forms of pvp denote lazy, skill-less activities. And why shouldn't they think that way? After all, they spend their time painstakingly mining Veldspar, and then calculating how much Tritanium they need for two runs of a Raven BPO. It's difficult, honest labor!

God forbid these people would take an extra thirty seconds to warp to a celestial before warping to the next gate from a different angle, so as to avoid the smartbombs entirely. They simply can't spare the time from their busy, productive EVE lives for that kind of endeavor.

So after gate camping, what's next, the bubble camp or the titan hotdrop?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#619 - 2012-08-05 23:13:50 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
I called smart-bombing battleships fat and lazy and no-skill, which other than fat (admittedly it's not a fair descriptor), they most certainly are. It's the laziest, least skillful form of PVP in EVE.

Every time some new Greyscale change comes out of the closet, it always concerns one or another form of non-consensual player interaction. That type of interaction immediately becomes the "laziest, least skillful form of PVP in EVE." First it was wars, then it was suicide-ganking, and now it's low-sec gate-camping. It seems to me that in the bears' eyes, all forms of pvp denote lazy, skill-less activities. And why shouldn't they think that way? After all, they spend their time painstakingly mining Veldspar, and then calculating how much Tritanium they need for two runs of a Raven BPO. It's difficult, honest labor!

God forbid these people would take an extra thirty seconds to warp to a celestial before warping to the next gate from a different angle, so as to avoid the smartbombs entirely. They simply can't spare the time from their busy, productive EVE lives for that kind of endeavor.

So after gate camping, what's next, the bubble camp or the titan hotdrop?

I think Greyscale might give "Awoxing" a look-over. We could probably use an internal pvp toggle for corporations. You know, for balancing.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#620 - 2012-08-05 23:16:25 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So after gate camping, what's next, the bubble camp or the titan hotdrop?

I think Greyscale might give "Awoxing" a look-over. We could probably use an internal pvp toggle for corporations. You know, for balancing.

Oh.

Alright, that makes sense, actually. There are enough tales of people blowing up their "corpmates" to help justify that, right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?