Missions & Complexes

So from playing eve i have learned one good thing. Amarr ships suck so bad its not even funny. I mean what are they good for. all there ships are slow. There hard as hell to fit and they just dont have good versarility. I mean look at there cruisers for instance the only half decent ship is the maller. Its only bearable because it can tank a **** ton of damage but its dps such. It that amarr ships are beaten by every other race. for missions Caldari rules. For pvp its minmitar. I mean come on even gallente ships are better than amarr ships. I mean come on gallente really. Choosing Amarr as my race worst decision in ever. Second worst decision continuing to train Amarr ships. If there is any hope for Amarr ships in pve and pvp please tell me those ships and how to fit them.

Since this is in the PvE forum I'll limit myself to PvE answers.

Amarr has some good ships, but they mostly exist at the higher end of the spectrum. For missions, the Slicer is damn near excellent and the revamped Retribution isn't bad. I haven't played with the revamped T1 frigs so can't comment there. There's also really nothing wrong with the Coercer in L1/2s.

The Arbitrator is a wonderful PvE cruiser, though to get the most of it you need to skill three (yes, all three) weapon systems. It does fine with just drones for starters though. It can handle all L2 missions and can chip away L3s. It's also very nice for exploration (professional sites anyhow). The Pilgrim is a major step up for exploration (again, mostly professional sites, but there is a surprising amount of money to be made there).

Harbinger eats L3s for breakfast. Absolution just makes them silly and can hobble through L4s, though range is an issue there.

I've recently been convinced that a laser Legion is viable in Blood/Sansha low sec exploration, and of course a HAM Legion can do fine in Angel low sec due to the resist profile and damage switching.

The entire Amarr battleship line is great against native enemies in L4s (also rogue drones if you care to farm drone space). NGeddon also has enough selectable damage to operate elsewhere. The Paladin is simply high enough damage to make up for the limited damage types (though many, myself included, prefer the Nightmare).

So what are the problem areas?

Possibly no cheap frigs for low level stuff. Possibly. I haven't worked through what they've done with the reworked frigs enough to really comment.

No really good T1 laser cruiser.

Some difficulties in L4s against Angels and Guristas, though high end BSs still work.

It doesn't seem like it's all that bad....

I have specialized in Amarr ships and regret it. They have good battleships and some good t2 ships. The T1 lineup is otherwise unremarkable.They're totally inflexible and only perform well in a narrow range of situations. Lots of ships are crippled due to bad slot layouts or bonuses. Over the years on and off playing the game, my skillset has gradually become less valuable.

I hope that the ship rebalancing initiative will change things, but CCP has been proven to be inept at balancing in the past, so I recommend to train another race first. Amarr is good to crosstrain for some specific tasks and ships but not as first race.

Gallente drone ships do this a lot better. Vexor > Arbitrator, and Ishtar > Pilgrim. The Ishtar can do high end complexes too with the same fit. Seriously, the Ishtar blows the Pilgrim out of the water. The only advantage of the Pilgrim is the cov ops cloak.

As far as T1 cruisers go, the Amarr lineup is easily the worst.



Like all battlecruisers, a Harbinger will do very well against enemies weak to his primary damage type. A Drake is the better PvE ship though (not against rats dealing em damage of course).



An Apocalypse does DED 5/10 and 6/10 much better for a variety of reasons which I won't go into, but can't do 4/10's. The Legion can do all of them, but it's more expensive and takes longer.



HAM Legion has the perfect resist profile against Angels, but lacks damage and range to do the sites in a reasonable time. You'll struggle to get more than 500 dps out of it while maintaining an adequate tank, and are limited to 20km range. This is as far as DED sites are concerned at least. A Tengu will do much better. It would be different if the the Legion Augmented Capacitor Reservoir had an extra launcher hardpoint.


As for PvP, Amarr is the underdog together with Gallente: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20

If you really feel that way about it there likely won't be any convincing you otherwise.

Personally I can't fly anything but Amarr at the moment, unless you count the Nightmare which I had to train Caldari BS for.

I don't regret it, and don't plan on cross-training yet, still lots of Amarr ships I have to train for to fly effectively.

My hangar is fairly full, Nightmare, NGeddon, Zealots, Purifiers, Punishers, Retribution, Vengeance, Pilgrim, Arbitrator, Curse. Don't have a Legion yet but working on it for gang support role.

Then there is the Guardian for armor Logi.

Apoc/Napoc both useful and fairly forgiving beginner ships.

All have their uses, and I like flying them all.

Are they always as good or as FOTM as another races counterpart? No. Are they useless? No.

Az

Train - Get Paladin - Profit

Thanks guys. See u don't hate amarr ships I just am disappoined in them thanks for all the great comments.

I see you are beginning to see the light. Amarr ships are not bad and have some very good choices in each class. People have touched on some of the better ones and I agree with many of their choices.

From the prospective of someone who can fly every sub-cap ship in the game and use every t2 weapon (I am currently training every spec skill to 5), there are many things about amarr ships to love. Amarr t2 ships really stand out, I have multiple setups of each one and often reach for one first.

Scorch is probably the best PvP t2 ammo in the game, it has amazing damage projection that when combined with a hull with a range bonus makes pulses almost unfair. Amarr ships are almost always fighting in optimal, as crystal changes are instantaneous. The effect of this is much more than EFT leads you to believe, hit quality drops as you go into falloff, resulting in a greater drop in DPS. Many of those people who whine about autocannon range, really don't understand how falloff effects DPS. Instead lasers just instantly change range and eliminate that problem.

Rigs/modules that effect optimal are very good on amarr ships. Just like boosting falloff is so good for projectiles, boosting optimal can be very effective (and unexpected) on our ships. In general our ships have strong tanks, large capacitors and good bonuses. While we do have some ships that do well being nano'd, in general propulsion mods aren't all that necessary on Amarr ships.

In many cases it comes down to how you like to fight. If you want "risk adverse" PvP, look elsewhere. As our ships tend to commit to the end. While we can't really match the "face-melting" DPS of Hybrids, we don't have to contend with the shorter range and tracking issues either, as we tend to be able to project our DPS fairly well.

I know EvE is going through this whole "ship balancing" phase atm, but ship balance in EvE at the moment is probably the best it's been in the last 6 years. Oh and since you posted this in the "Missions & Complex" (PvE) section. The Apoc is a very good mission ship, as is the Absolution, Zealot and Sac. If the Paladin had the range bonus, it would beat the nightmare hands down, as it is it still works very well against EM/thermal weak enemies(Bloods, Sansha, Drones, Mercs and Serps - not too bad). The ability to put a MWD on it so that you can use pulses and the web bonus, (and t2 crystals including conflag) makes it a nice mission runner too.

Before you say that another ship is imbalanced, I suggest you fly it and experience it's pluses and minuses. You might be surprised.

You may wish to try a geddon with 5xGarde II's, you might change your mind. Though every so often you have to bring them back to optimal.

Good Amarr Ships:

Punisher - One of the better T1 frigs in the game
Navy Slicer - So ******* fast, awesome kiting
Vengeance - Epic tank
Retribution - Also epic tank
Crusader - Same as Navy Slicer
Sentinel - Did you watch ATX?
Arbitrator - Best drone cruiser in game IMO
Navy Omen - DPS
Navy Augoror - Absolutely ******** tank (160k+ EHP)
Zealot - Tons of DPS
Pilgrim - Best solo roaming recon
Curse - Amazing solo potential, strong shield tank, huge range on neuts
Devoter - Massive buffer, best armor HIC
Guardian - Best gang sustained armor logi
Legion - Cloaky neut fits, tanky DPS HAM or lasers, easy PVE thanks to scorch
Harbinger - The best tank-n-spank BC
Absolution - One of the game's better command ships
Apocalypse - Great long range beam capability
Abaddon - Amazing armor tank, great in fleets

You can stop crying now.