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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

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Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-10-11 23:49:02 UTC
Really, AFK Cloakers are fine the way they are.

You can do the same thing to your enemies, and you can always start (HEAVEN FORBID) start ratting in combat ready fits or even ratting in groups.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-10-11 23:53:55 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Donatella D'Tren wrote:
The counter is have friends protect you. Seems simple.

lol. Never been hotdropped huh?


if you were hotdropped, then he wasn't AFK, now was he?

Here's the thing, you don't KNOW if he's AFK so you ALWAYS need to assume he is not.

The idea of a deprecating cloak is sound against the AFK aspect which is the issue I think OP is on about. If he's active, let him recloak all he likes.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-10-11 23:54:29 UTC
And if he had been sitting in the system for 10 hours previously AFK, does it make any difference?

Its the sitting there for 10 hours with ZERO risk and the threat of a hot-drop that is the problem here! If they had to be active to maintain the cloak then there wouldn't be a problem. It would be a pain in the arse when someone did it to you, but it would be OK. The problem is that someone AFK can sit there, with zero risk, holding a entire system to ransom, with no effort.

I use AFK cloaking myself to massive advantage and let me tell you, if people are stupid enough to rat while I'm in system (I check back every few hours when I can) then they generally get a bomb in the face followed by torps at a rather critical moment. If I have cap backup online, well then its even worse for them!

Basically the only defence for AFK cloaking that it's supporters can offer is that it can in theory be defended against, however you are asking the defenders to put literally thousands of times as much effort in as the AFK cloaker AND to be the ones taking the big risks (losing their expensive PvP and ratting ships) which simply isn't viable.

As for 'defending your space', well I can get a SB into ANY SYSTEM IN EVE with virtually no risk or effort so basically what you are saying at the moment is that no alliance in eve is capable of defending it's space....... due to AFK cloaking. If anything this is another reason it needs to be fixed.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
The Apostle
Doomheim
#24 - 2011-10-12 00:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Seatox wrote:
Get in a fleet with your allies (y'know, those people who are supposedly your friends?), get in your voice coms (you have voice coms, right?), have some people in Sabers sitting around fondling their autocannons, and bait that sucker out. Then shoot him. If he lights a cyno, shoot him anyway. If he dosn't do anything then you win anyway, because he's AFK.

I mean, I'm a semi-bear new to this 0.0 thing, but cloakies don't bother me one bit. They just make me ping dscan more for probes and fly something with a decent insurance payout that I can replace if things go welp-shaped.

Read post #16 why escorts are pointless.

Test this theory by sitting with an alt/corpie in a Rapier and tell him to decloak whenever he wants. See if you can lock him before he can type 'boo' into local after he decloaks. If you get lock, see if you can burn to him and kill him before he can type 'hahahahaha' in local.

Ya couldn't could ya? Cyno is up and fleet is in. Bye Bye.....

And insofar as probes. 90% of cloaking is done for 2 reasons.

- Cheap ratter/miner kills
- System denial

Cloakers do not need to probe for either. They can do a very quick single probe drop lasting a few seconds for "fast anom find" mode but they can do it just as easily with no probes.

And insurance is pointless. 95% of 0.0 miners and ratters don't use T1.

In my experience, the only people that support AFK cloakers are AFK cloakers or people who have no idea how effective they can be for a 30 day alt.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2011-10-12 00:10:59 UTC
The Apostle wrote:

Read post #16 why escorts are pointless.



.


See post #11 to see how wrong you are.
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-10-12 00:20:15 UTC
Your refering to the one that links to a page saying 'Kill not found, please use a valid kill id' ?

Or the other one where you are standing up and facing away from us so we can hear you more clearly?

Either way it makes no difference.

The simple fact it requires thousands of times more effort to defend against AFK cloakers than the AFK cloaker puts in is simply unbalanced.

There is a simple solution, head back to hi-sec and run missions. I don't think this is what CCP wants however currently Null is fairly pointless on an individual pilot level unless they are building supers, and afk cloakers been able to do this is one of the main problems.

Again, I do AFK cloaking myself, I know exactly how effective it is, what it can do and the lack of anything regarding risk doing it. If you are inflicting that much economical damage on an enemy, it should take effort and risk, not a free ride which it pretty much is at the moment.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
The Apostle
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-10-12 00:26:39 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
baltec1 wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

Read post #16 why escorts are pointless.
.


See post #11 to see how wrong you are.

You know as well as I do it was a lucky kill (or stupid pilots). I've chased SB fleets that have dropped all around space after they did a bombing run and split up. They go doggoe and just wait it out.

With 20 or so ratters in system and maybe a few miners you simply cannot escort against bombers before they do a kill because you do NOT know where they're gonna drop.

Sure you might get them afterwards, if they're stupid enough to try and break out immediately or forget to cloak up.

EDIT: That's also a bait Raven and neither of them did a drop.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2011-10-12 00:29:03 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

Read post #16 why escorts are pointless.
.


See post #11 to see how wrong you are.

You know as well as I do it was a lucky kill (or stupid pilots). I've chased SB fleets that have dropped all around space after they did a bombing run and split up. They go doggoe and just wait it out.

With 20 or so ratters in system and maybe a few miners you simply cannot escort against bombers before they do a kill because you do NOT know where they're gonna drop.

Sure you might get them afterwards, if they're stupid enough to try and break out immediately or forget to cloak up.


After 2 days of me kicking them about they left the system and didnt return. Job done.
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-10-12 00:33:55 UTC
Well done, you managed to prove there are two fail SB pilots.... thats all.

Either that or they disconnected/lagged out. (since deliberatly forcing them to lag out is an exploit this isn't a valid tactic)

You have successfully proved nothing.... zero, zip, nada.

Either come back with something constructive or please just leave. You've made yourself look bad enough for one day ;)

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2011-10-12 00:36:24 UTC
Rhinanna wrote:
Well done, you managed to prove there are two fail SB pilots.... thats all.

Either that or they disconnected/lagged out. (since deliberatly forcing them to lag out is an exploit this isn't a valid tactic)

You have successfully proved nothing.... zero, zip, nada.

Either come back with something constructive or please just leave. You've made yourself look bad enough for one day ;)


I dont get bottled up by afk cloakers while you do. Who is doing badly here?
The Apostle
Doomheim
#31 - 2011-10-12 00:46:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rhinanna wrote:
Well done, you managed to prove there are two fail SB pilots.... thats all.

Either that or they disconnected/lagged out. (since deliberatly forcing them to lag out is an exploit this isn't a valid tactic)

You have successfully proved nothing.... zero, zip, nada.

Either come back with something constructive or please just leave. You've made yourself look bad enough for one day ;)


I dont get bottled up by afk cloakers while you do. Who is doing badly here?

lol. They were NOT AFK cloakers.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-10-12 00:48:56 UTC
Who said I do? I'm normally the one doing the AFK cloaking thanks.
I also don't really participate in activities where AFK cloaking is going to affect me. I have many other ways to generate ISK.

For a Goon, they probably aren't that much of a problem either since if they aren't dumb, you can just move to another system.
Try thinking of someone OTHER than yourself for a change.

Now what about alliances that only have 2-3 systems? One player can place massive threat on all their systems in one go.... For virtually no effort or risk, vs a massive amount of effort to TRY to find and destroy/bait them or guarding all your ratters to try and defend against them.

Please try showing how that is in ANY WAY balanced. Quite simply it isn't.

Even with the ideas suggested for the de-cloak pulse every hour, a AFK cloaker can still lock down a system for a while for the cheap cheap price of 35mil (one SB), while the victim alliance is likely to have lost 100mil + in income they didn't get during the same period.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2011-10-12 00:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
The Apostle wrote:

lol. They were NOT AFK cloakers.


They were for the 5 hours before they attacked me.

Rhinanna wrote:
Who said I do? I'm normally the one doing the AFK cloaking thanks.
I also don't really participate in activities where AFK cloaking is going to affect me. I have many other ways to generate ISK.

For a Goon, they probably aren't that much of a problem either since if they aren't dumb, you can just move to another system.
Try thinking of someone OTHER than yourself for a change.

Now what about alliances that only have 2-3 systems? One player can place massive threat on all their systems in one go.... For virtually no effort or risk, vs a massive amount of effort to TRY to find and destroy/bait them or guarding all your ratters to try and defend against them.

Please try showing how that is in ANY WAY balanced. Quite simply it isn't.

Even with the ideas suggested for the de-cloak pulse every hour, a AFK cloaker can still lock down a system for a while for the cheap cheap price of 35mil (one SB), while the victim alliance is likely to have lost 100mil + in income they didn't get during the same period.


As opposed to the instant intel the ratter has to put no effort into meaning most of the time they are 100% safe from attack.

As for that little alliance, I was in one of those for many years before joining goons and we had no problem keeping our space secure and the isk flowing.
Imaginary Girlfriend
Exploit Inc.
#34 - 2011-10-12 00:52:15 UTC
Sniped117 wrote:
in the best interest of my alliance im posting on an alt.

READ: AFK Cloakers shut down our bots


Get some PVP ships and go to their space.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#35 - 2011-10-12 00:54:18 UTC
Rhinanna wrote:
Who said I do? I'm normally the one doing the AFK cloaking thanks.
I also don't really participate in activities where AFK cloaking is going to affect me. I have many other ways to generate ISK.

For a Goon, they probably aren't that much of a problem either since if they aren't dumb, you can just move to another system.
Try thinking of someone OTHER than yourself for a change.

Now what about alliances that only have 2-3 systems? One player can place massive threat on all their systems in one go.... For virtually no effort or risk, vs a massive amount of effort to TRY to find and destroy/bait them or guarding all your ratters to try and defend against them.

Please try showing how that is in ANY WAY balanced. Quite simply it isn't.

Even with the ideas suggested for the de-cloak pulse every hour, a AFK cloaker can still lock down a system for a while for the cheap cheap price of 35mil (one SB), while the victim alliance is likely to have lost 100mil + in income they didn't get during the same period.

The AFK cloaky alt issue has been an issue for quite some time, as was pointed out, but it has become much more pronounced since the sanctum nerfs.

It REDUCED the benefits of being in 0.0 by a big margin imho and quite possibly drove many out.

It will remain that way until the AFK cloaky issue has been resolved - for better or worse.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
The Apostle
Doomheim
#36 - 2011-10-12 01:00:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rhinanna wrote:
Well done, you managed to prove there are two fail SB pilots.... thats all.

Either that or they disconnected/lagged out. (since deliberatly forcing them to lag out is an exploit this isn't a valid tactic)

You have successfully proved nothing.... zero, zip, nada.

Either come back with something constructive or please just leave. You've made yourself look bad enough for one day ;)


I dont get bottled up by afk cloakers while you do. Who is doing badly here?

lol. They were NOT AFK cloakers.


They were for the 5 hours before they attacked me.

May be. But for you to catch 2 SB's in a Raven suggests they had nfi what they were doing.

I do agree though that once they are NOT AFK, you've got a chance. One of my most memorable kills was getting a Rapier to agress on a scramming blockade runner - it was a cheap kill but funny as hell

And herein is the OP's point - it's the AFK cloaking that's the issue, not the cloaking.....

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2011-10-12 01:04:08 UTC
The Apostle wrote:

May be. But for you to catch 2 SB's in a Raven suggests they had nfi what they were doing.

I do agree though that once they are NOT AFK, you've got a chance. One of my most memorable kills was getting a Rapier to agress on a scramming blockade runner - it was a cheap kill but funny as hell

And herein is the OP's point - it's the AFK cloaking that's the issue, not the cloaking.....


How is it an issue when people are making their isk while the afk cloaker just sits there and does nothing?

It is only the falt of the bears if they fail to organise themselves and just cower in station.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#38 - 2011-10-12 01:06:30 UTC
If you're talking about me i don't hot drop people. I just sit still, cloaked, in yar sanctums preventing them from despawning.

Works the same way.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
rootimus maximus
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-10-12 01:12:25 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Here's the thing, you don't KNOW if he's AFK so you ALWAYS need to assume he is not


If you act like that, your fabricated "problem" goes away.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-10-12 01:14:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

May be. But for you to catch 2 SB's in a Raven suggests they had nfi what they were doing.

I do agree though that once they are NOT AFK, you've got a chance. One of my most memorable kills was getting a Rapier to agress on a scramming blockade runner - it was a cheap kill but funny as hell

And herein is the OP's point - it's the AFK cloaking that's the issue, not the cloaking.....


How is it an issue when people are making their isk while the afk cloaker just sits there and does nothing?

It is only the falt of the bears if they fail to organise themselves and just cower in station.

You're kidding right?

So if you were ratting in a PvE Tengu worth 100's of millions or a fleet of Hulks worth 100's of millions you'd be happy to accept the threat of a hotdrop at ANY tme?

You have absolutely no idea when - or if in all fairness - a drop could occur. You could put a 100 escorts in system and have every ratter/miner on watch list. By the time cyno is lit, drop made and bombs launched the escorts are only half way through warp to the screaming victim. And that's IF you're on the ball ready for it.

AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]