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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Exploit? CCP response requested .

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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#21 - 2012-08-02 13:13:20 UTC
(ellipses) (question mark)

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#22 - 2012-08-02 13:59:17 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Acceleration gates are an external warp mechanism. It warps the ship, the ship doesn't use it's own warp drive.


Its a nice rationalization but sadly doesn't explain why the gates can't accelerate a ship that happens to be already warp scrambled before the button is clicked Cool

On the general issue though - its a very very stupid piece of meta-propaganda from the people raising this hue and cry because frankly its something that all sides do and have always done since the acceleration gates were introduced. I'm apparently too stupid to do it myself mind since I've been killed and podded several times on acceleration gates myself Oops

Still its an issue with session changes, quick warping ships etc. I'd like to see with my own eyes whether its possible for a battlecruiser to manage it going into a major with quick tackle waiting to prevent before getting too crazy about it.

On the whole I don't think it damages the game in any serious way for an outnumbered guerilla fleet of dessies to sneak past a larger group of gate campers to get into a complex where they have to stand and fight anyway if they want to achieve their objective of taking the plex. I mean bloody hell, there's worse rubbish than this in eve to worry about!

I would guess this will all come down to how the foundation mechanics with session changes and grid loading work and you might find its too much development effort to "fix" when CCP need to be spending their time on far more serious issues.

Ultimately ask the question - will it improve the game of Faction Warfare if it becomes possible for a larger force to camp minor acceleration gates with 2000 scan resolution tackle frigates for flawless capture of incoming light ships?

Or would we prefer CCP to spend some time and effort sorting out other aspects of the Faction warfare plexing system.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#23 - 2012-08-02 14:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
My question is who doesn't spam "warp" or "jump"?

Are you trying to tell me that Mr. Durrr is an honourable spacediety and he only ever ever presses the button more than once?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#24 - 2012-08-02 14:34:22 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
My question is who doesn't spam "warp" or "jump"?

Are you trying to tell me that Mr. Durrr is an honourable spacediety and he only ever ever presses the button once?



I'm guessing his argument is because he's not a space-politician he doesn't have to hold himself to the finest traditions of the service that hans does. Back in the day the Caldari claimed that I'd dishonoured the role of CSM chair by hotdropping them with a titan bridge you know Cool Politics is serious business.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch
#25 - 2012-08-02 14:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuri Intaki
Jade Constantine wrote:
Back in the day the Caldari claimed that I'd dishonoured the role of CSM chair by hotdropping them with a titan bridge you know Cool Politics is serious business.


And yet you were unwilling to pay three measly carriers to Damar Rocarion for the well being of all the people in Metropolis. You seemed awfully butthurt back then about us ruining your precious lolplaying enviroment by demonstranting what your good friend Ankh did. And CCP still has not fixed the thing.

History repeating itself much now? Perhaps you should circulate an internal memo again. The last one in "K" is pretty hilarious and woefully inaccurate but perhaps this time you get nationalities right.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#26 - 2012-08-02 14:45:58 UTC
Yeah! You should have given Damar Rocarian Yuri Intaki three carriers, Jade!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#27 - 2012-08-02 14:51:38 UTC
Yuri Intaki wrote:
And yet you were unwilling to pay three measly carriers to Damar Rocarion for the well being of all the people in Metropolis. You seemed awfully butthurt back then about us ruining your precious lolplaying enviroment by demonstranting what your good friend Ankh did. And CCP still has not fixed the thing.


Well the mechanic is still pretty stupid Damar. (He's basically referencing the fact that if one has high standings with the Minmatar you can can basically afk plex against minmatar complexes f.ex) You lose standings for shooting the minmatar (or whatever faction npcs) but you lose nothing for completing offensive plexes that actually help take the systems away! Back in the day Damar asked me to pay him 3 carriers or he would use this technique to take away the whole of the warzone from the Minmatar lol!

As for Ankh, well I liked her (she threw a spoon at a fellow CSM during a meeting) - but the way she played FW was pretty twisted.

Yuri Intaki wrote:
History repeating itself much now? Perhaps you should circulate an internal memo again. The last one in "K" is pretty hilarious and woefully inaccurate but perhaps this time you get nationalities right.


I thought it was pretty good actually Cool

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#28 - 2012-08-02 14:52:35 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Yeah! You should have given Damar Rocarian Yuri Intaki three carriers, Jade!


I know right.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#29 - 2012-08-02 14:53:15 UTC
omfg what is he supposed to do? Not spam it so you can tackle him? LOL So bad. L2P and all that good stuff.

Braitai wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right place to post about this, but..

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/xjssf/hans_jagerblitzen_a_member_of_the_csm_exploited/

So, is activating an acceleration gate on arrival to avoid being tackled an exploit?

Spamming the acceleration gate as you land has been a "tactic" used in FW since before Hans started playing eve, the political issue here is an irrelevant distraction. This is the first time in nearly four years of FW that I've heard this described as an "exploit".

nom nom
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#30 - 2012-08-02 14:54:48 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Back in the day Damar asked me to pay him 3 carriers or he would use this technique to take away the whole of the warzone from the Minmatar lol!


lol.

I'm glad I discovered Damar. He brightens my EVE experience.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Vordak Kallager
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#31 - 2012-08-02 15:16:08 UTC
What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#32 - 2012-08-02 15:23:15 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls.


B-b-b-b-but my ganks!!!!!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Vordak Kallager
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#33 - 2012-08-02 15:25:18 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls.


B-b-b-b-but my ganks!!!!!


None of the Amarr old-guard (who value combat plexes as the tool they are designed to be) are complaining about this supposed "exploit". It's only Fweddit who are sad they couldn't gank our cruiser/thrasher fleets at 3:1 odds. vOv

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#34 - 2012-08-02 15:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Vordak Kallager wrote:
What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls.





This is a good and important point.

I'm coming round to the opinion that whether this stuff is a bug or not then it SHOULD work this way because its better for the Faction Warfare GAME to allow people to get their ships into complexes and fight there (by the ship weight restrictions) than it is to allow a one-size fits all fleet to effectively gate camp the in-complexes and get results with an omni fleet.

So perhaps the solution here is for CCP to just say "working as intended" or to make a change that allows any ship whether warp scrambled or not to activate the Acceleration gate and warp into the complex (just as a ship can activate a stargate or transition to wormhole.).

That way the whole issue becomes a non argument and people will need to play Faction Warfare by putting the appropriate ship classes into the appropriate complexes (even if this means splitting a fleet up) and fighting multiple smaller battles.

(which was I think the point of the original design.)

All in all this thread does make Fweddit look exceedingly petty.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-08-02 15:38:04 UTC
Why didn't some of your guys just reship down and come get us?
You could have camped the star gates with big ships to allow your smaller ships to get through into system, then drop onto the accel gate with your BCs and cruisers, etc to escort the smaller ships that then go into the plex.

You had 60 players active in Huola. Surely you could have managed to break 15-20 off into dessies and come get us. I do not understand why you decided to complain about an old mechanic instead.

TL;DR version:
Get dessies.
Escort dessies to accel gate (if you need to camp something)
Jump dessies in and bounce us out
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#36 - 2012-08-02 15:41:00 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Minmatar dislike a game mechanic = Hans has fixed immediately
Amarr dislike a game mechanic = Must be complaining


Feels so good.

pew pew
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#37 - 2012-08-02 16:01:27 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls.





This is a good and important point.

I'm coming round to the opinion that whether this stuff is a bug or not then it SHOULD work this way because its better for the Faction Warfare GAME to allow people to get their ships into complexes and fight there (by the ship weight restrictions) than it is to allow a one-size fits all fleet to effectively gate camp the in-complexes and get results with an omni fleet.

So perhaps the solution here is for CCP to just say "working as intended" or to make a change that allows any ship whether warp scrambled or not to activate the Acceleration gate and warp into the complex (just as a ship can activate a stargate or transition to wormhole.).

That way the whole issue becomes a non argument and people will need to play Faction Warfare by putting the appropriate ship classes into the appropriate complexes (even if this means splitting a fleet up) and fighting multiple smaller battles.

(which was I think the point of the original design.)

All in all this thread does make Fweddit look exceedingly petty.


Very petty.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-08-02 16:06:53 UTC
This one time, I missed a point on a ship I could totally kill.

It made me sad.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#39 - 2012-08-02 16:38:14 UTC
I feel this should be a "working as intended" mechanic. A-gates, S-gates and WH should all cancel out warp scrams.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#40 - 2012-08-02 16:38:34 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:

If you want an exercise in hypocrisy, let me tell you about how Hans told me he can't control Susan or his own militia in response to Susan'stroll post and in the same breath told me I should do my best to control my militia and keep their rhetoric focused and constructive, if I care about the future of FW.

That's not a troll post. THIS is a troll post.