These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Inner Zone Catalyst and others on Sisi. Ship skinning coming in winter?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#41 - 2012-08-02 00:20:46 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:

Anything to do with AUR....ummm...No.

Just no.

ISK and/or LP, or nothing.

Raw Aur sure. That's why the Ishukone Scorpion never flew. Yet if they add the ability to trade in a player made ship + Aur, for a special painted ship with same stats. What is the problem? Specially if they continue to spread out away from Aur. Like the lp faction avatar clothing.

If they limit the Aur painted ships to "gold" colors yet let other corps paint jobs be sold as LP, or even rare bpc drops. Why not.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#42 - 2012-08-02 00:26:31 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Raw Aur sure. That's why the Ishukone Scorpion never flew. Yet if they add the ability to trade in a player made ship + Aur, for a special painted ship with same stats. What is the problem? Specially if they continue to spread out away from Aur. Like the lp faction avatar clothing.

If they limit the Aur painted ships to "gold" colors yet let other corps paint jobs be sold as LP, or even rare bpc drops. Why not.

Would rather they simply allow you to trade ship+ISK or ship+LP for a new paintjob. Not at all interested in paying RL cash for in-game items when I already pay a subscription to play the game. Regardless of how harmless AUR might actually be, it's Yet Another Currency that we really don't need in the game. Plus, the current inability to trade AUR for anything else means it can pretty much "go outside and play hide and go **** yourself."

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#43 - 2012-08-02 00:37:45 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:

Would rather they simply allow you to trade ship+ISK or ship+LP for a new paintjob. Not at all interested in paying RL cash for in-game items when I already pay a subscription to play the game. Regardless of how harmless AUR might actually be, it's Yet Another Currency that we really don't need in the game. Plus, the current inability to trade AUR for anything else means it can pretty much "go outside and play hide and go **** yourself."


Then you never would get the Aur supplied colors. Just because you wouldn't use the method does not mean it's not valid. Then people who bought the Aur painted ships could in turn put it on market for isk. Then you could buy it anyway.
AUR is in the game to suck surplus plex out of the system. Yet its currently a lousy system to do so since there is nothing worthwhile in the NeX store. Vanity ships would work a lot better than pants.
This proposition is also under the idea Aur wouldn't be the only method to obtaining special colors. Only Specific colors not obtainable elsewhere.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#44 - 2012-08-02 00:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:

Would rather they simply allow you to trade ship+ISK or ship+LP for a new paintjob. Not at all interested in paying RL cash for in-game items when I already pay a subscription to play the game. Regardless of how harmless AUR might actually be, it's Yet Another Currency that we really don't need in the game. Plus, the current inability to trade AUR for anything else means it can pretty much "go outside and play hide and go **** yourself."


Then you never would get the Aur supplied colors. Just because you wouldn't use the method does not mean it's not valid. Then people who bought the Aur painted ships could in turn put it on market for isk. Then you could buy it anyway.
AUR is in the game to suck surplus plex out of the system. Yet its currently a lousy system to do so since there is nothing worthwhile in the NeX store. Vanity ships would work a lot better than pants.
This proposition is also under the idea Aur wouldn't be the only method to obtaining special colors. Only Specific colors not obtainable elsewhere.


Has there ever been even one game that instituted a cash-shop that didn't, eventually, institute "pay for advantage" to some degree, even if not blatant "pay to win?" A little optional "inconsequential" stat-boost here, just a little better armour there that you could get in-game, but that took, coincidentally A LOT of gratingly tedious grinding to get, making the cash "option" more "appealing (LotRO did this, from what I've heard)?"

Even ones that were initially subscribe-to-play? (Ref.: LotRO again -- from what I've heard, long-time subbers got ****** in that game, hard, after a while.)

I can't think of one, except maybe WoW, but **** WoW, it doesn't count.

Slippery slope, maing, with a fall into a long, long abyss at the end of it.

One all the more so, because I don't feel that CCP has earned the right to "double-dip" my RL wallet, to put it very charitably.

E:

SWGemu is up, it looks like. Darkfall actually looks pretty interesting, open-world non-consensual PvP in a sandbox, even though I'm not a big fan of traditional-fantasy "spell-and-blade" games. The Repopulation seems well on its way.

It would appear that CCP no longer provides the only game in town, as it were, or at least they won't anymore, and soon, not Soon(TM). You might think of it to games like the "Japanese Invasion" was to cars in the North American market starting in the late 1960s/70s.

Just puttin' that out there, food for thought, dont'cha'know Bear

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#45 - 2012-08-02 00:59:25 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Then you never would get the Aur supplied colors. Just because you wouldn't use the method does not mean it's not valid. Then people who bought the Aur painted ships could in turn put it on market for isk. Then you could buy it anyway.
AUR is in the game to suck surplus plex out of the system. Yet its currently a lousy system to do so since there is nothing worthwhile in the NeX store. Vanity ships would work a lot better than pants.
This proposition is also under the idea Aur wouldn't be the only method to obtaining special colors. Only Specific colors not obtainable elsewhere.

Rationally you make a lot of sense, but until there is a direct AUR <-> ISK conversion the danger of pay to win is persistent because AUR is outside of the game on one side or the other. Conversion in the form of clothing or whatever doesn't really cut it. Once you have that conversion AUR doesn't even need to exist, so we might as well just get rid of it. Hence my aversion to anything related to AUR in the slightest.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#46 - 2012-08-02 01:01:25 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
[...]
Rationally you make a lot of sense, but until there is a direct AUR <-> ISK conversion the danger of pay to win is persistent because AUR is outside of the game on one side or the other. Conversion in the form of clothing or whatever doesn't really cut it. Once you have that conversion AUR doesn't even need to exist, so we might as well just get rid of it. Hence my aversion to anything related to AUR in the slightest.


^^And this, too.^^

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#47 - 2012-08-02 01:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:

One all the more so, because I don't feel that CCP has earned the right to "double-dip" my RL wallet, to put it very charitably.


I don't know how much more succinctly I can put it. Its Vanity. There is nothing there to force the double-dip.
CCP pretty much learned is lesson. Just look at the ishukone scorpion (exactly the same as a normal scorpion). They abandoned the idea because it bypassed player industrialists When the players objected, CCP abandoned the idea tell it could be sensibly offered with a proper trade. As NeX was shortsightedly (debatable) designed to only accept Aur trade.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#48 - 2012-08-02 01:11:35 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
I don't know how much more succinctly I can put it. Its Vanity.

This is true, but in EVE ships get destroyed all the time. So would your vanity ships be like your vanity clothing? If so, that'd be pretty ****** up.

Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
CCP pretty much learned is lesson. Just look at the ishukone scorpion. They abandoned the idea because it bypassed player industrialists When the players objected, CCP abandoned the idea tell it could be sensibly offered with a proper trade. As NeX was shortsightedly (debatable) designed to only accept Aur trade.

This could be yet another issue with the colors. Why not let player industrialists profit from the new schemes? You take yet another manufacture avenue away from players which deprives them of that sort of entertainment.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#49 - 2012-08-02 01:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Karl Hobb wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
I don't know how much more succinctly I can put it. Its Vanity.

This is true, but in EVE ships get destroyed all the time. So would your vanity ships be like your vanity clothing? If so, that'd be pretty ****** up.
This could be yet another issue with the colors. Why not let player industrialists profit from the new schemes? You take yet another manufacture avenue away from players which deprives them of that sort of entertainment.


Ships explode. That will always be. The ishukone scorpion (you can manually link it in eve) was just a scorpion with a paint job. There is no hint at what such "fragile" Aur items would cost. (Yet I would look at Dust for examples, like in the double digit range)

Already stipulated in an earlier post that I'm fine with Aur paints, IF, there are other avenues to obtain them. LP, isk, bpc drops, player made (not the aur paints, but other colors)
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#50 - 2012-08-02 01:43:07 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:

One all the more so, because I don't feel that CCP has earned the right to "double-dip" my RL wallet, to put it very charitably.


I don't know how much more succinctly I can put it. Its Vanity. There is nothing there to force the double-dip.
CCP pretty much learned is lesson. Just look at the ishukone scorpion (exactly the same as a normal scorpion). They abandoned the idea because it bypassed player industrialists When the players objected, CCP abandoned the idea tell it could be sensibly offered with a proper trade. As NeX was shortsightedly (debatable) designed to only accept Aur trade.


I hope you're right. I most ardently do.

The rationalist/cynic in me who has some idea how the MMO industry really works --especially given that it appears that CCP may be trying to "go mainstream" again, because that worked so well last time!-- believes otherwise.

Slippery slope, man, like I said;

And CCP doesn't appear to be the only game in town anymore, or at least won't be in relatively short order (plus, The Repopulation is F2P, incidentally).


Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#51 - 2012-08-02 02:54:28 UTC
The ONLY effect people buying ISK for PLEX has is that as they do it more PLEX prices drop.

That's good for me.

In combat... who cares? I get schooled in pimpmobiles all the time in cheap ships. I've brought down billion isk ships w a drake. You can't buy a win... I just don't buy into that. You can pay to play but you can't buy an advantage.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-08-02 05:06:12 UTC
I dislike how they are doing this. Instead of actual skinning they are going to create "faction" variations of every ship? I was under the impression that the V3 project was going to allow actual skinning of ships. This seems like a clunky workaround. It's also going to just saturate the market. Do not like.
Cahvus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-08-02 05:11:42 UTC
I hope so! I really agree with the guy talking about paint job BPs
iskflakes
#54 - 2012-08-02 08:05:09 UTC
If they introduce faction variants of each ship then that's good. Market clutter.. who cares?

I would prefer to see paintjobs as a seperate process you can apply later, but it doesn't matter.

I actually like AURUM. It's not "pay to win" if you can buy it with ISK. If ship skins are purely aesthetic then they should only be available for AUR. Funny how the ones who complain are the ones who can't afford it...

-
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#55 - 2012-08-02 14:41:46 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
If they introduce faction variants of each ship then that's good. Market clutter.. who cares?

I would prefer to see paintjobs as a seperate process you can apply later, but it doesn't matter.

I actually like AURUM. It's not "pay to win" if you can buy it with ISK. If ship skins are purely aesthetic then they should only be available for AUR. Funny how the ones who complain are the ones who can't afford it...


I think more could be done with it, one thing this game needs is more incentives to do anything other than just "more isk".
A certain scan sites for various pirates could yield a specific camo style.
Running cargo missions for interbus would yield a corp lp bought skin.
A sleeper site could have a pattern and so on.
Aur would be for the monocle top hat man about space gaudy looking colors.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#56 - 2012-08-02 14:55:46 UTC
I d buy AUR anytime so i can purchase some paintjobs for my ships. I really dont see anything wrong there.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#57 - 2012-08-02 15:09:07 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
I d buy AUR anytime so i can purchase some paintjobs for my ships. I really dont see anything wrong there.


As would many people. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Even if you could not get them initially any other way that spending cash (which blatantly won't happen), they would STILL end up available to everyone in game for ISK when people resell them on the open market.

No, the only tricky part is how to involve player industry in the process, either via selling BPC's for the paint jobs or some other mechanic.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#58 - 2012-08-02 15:31:44 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
No, the only tricky part is how to involve player industry in the process, either via selling BPC's for the paint jobs or some other mechanic.

What will probably happen is something like the LP store: AUR + ship = painted ship.

If they go that route I'd hope they do something more sensible and have a "paint booth" at stations owned by certain corporations where you exchange LP + ship for a corporation painted ship, since this more closely matches our current method of acquiring faction ships.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#59 - 2012-08-02 20:20:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Excerpt from the CSM meeting may-june

Quote:

CSM: Can the new systems (such as V3) make it easy for players to color their own ships?

Art: It would be possible to do this, but a decision has to be made about how much freedom is appropriate, and then mechanisms have to be added to the game to support whatever decision is made.

CCP Huskarl: I would prefer to limit the possible variations, just as when you buy a car you choose from several pre-defined paint schemes.

Seleene/Two step: Are you leaning towards a few CCP-defined schemes, or providing players with several limited palettes (main color, highlight, etc.) to choose from.

CCP Huskarl: More towards the latter.

CCP Mannbjörn: I tend towards the former, because it's not just the color that you have to worry about, but the material (and how it interacts with the lighting). There are just too many knobs that would have to fiddle with.

Two step: I would expose the knobs and let interested players tweak them and then sell their color schemes.

In response to a question from Two step, CCP Mannbjörn noted that updating T3 ships to V3 models will be easier than updating the T1 and T2 ships.

Seleene: Is this (coloring ships) still envisioned as a microtransaction thing?

CCP Unifex: We haven't made those decisions, but my feeling is that if (Art) spends a lot of time making a custom scheme, that would be an Aurum thing. But other paint schemes might be rare drops, or available in an LP store. I think there needs to be a blend, and just doing one will **** off one or more of the stakeholders. The same goes for clothing; there may be a rare "Field Marshall" jacket only available as a drop

Two step approved of this approach. Getting back to ship skins, he commented that while he understands CCP's concerns about the look of the game ("no pink ships"), EVE is a sandbox game and it would be nice to be able to be a professional ship skin designer.

CCP Huskarl appreciated this point of view, but noted there would have to be limits. There was a short discussion of possible ways to achieve the goal.

Seleene raised the issue of corporate/alliance skins and color schemes.

Two step suggested it would be nice for industrialists to be able to produce custom ships with variations in both attributes and color schemes, so that the ships could be branded.

CCP Unifex: Nice dream.

Seleene: Talk to Stoffer (CCP Soundwave) and see how far you get.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#60 - 2012-08-02 20:29:25 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Excerpt from the CSM meeting may-june

Quote:

CSM: Can the new systems (such as V3) make it easy for players to color their own ships?

Art: It would be possible to do this, but a decision has to be made about how much freedom is appropriate, and then mechanisms have to be added to the game to support whatever decision is made.

CCP Huskarl: I would prefer to limit the possible variations, just as when you buy a car you choose from several pre-defined paint schemes.

Seleene/Two step: Are you leaning towards a few CCP-defined schemes, or providing players with several limited palettes (main color, highlight, etc.) to choose from.

CCP Huskarl: More towards the latter.

CCP Mannbjörn: I tend towards the former, because it's not just the color that you have to worry about, but the material (and how it interacts with the lighting). There are just too many knobs that would have to fiddle with.

Two step: I would expose the knobs and let interested players tweak them and then sell their color schemes.

In response to a question from Two step, CCP Mannbjörn noted that updating T3 ships to V3 models will be easier than updating the T1 and T2 ships.

Seleene: Is this (coloring ships) still envisioned as a microtransaction thing?

CCP Unifex: We haven't made those decisions, but my feeling is that if (Art) spends a lot of time making a custom scheme, that would be an Aurum thing. But other paint schemes might be rare drops, or available in an LP store. I think there needs to be a blend, and just doing one will **** off one or more of the stakeholders. The same goes for clothing; there may be a rare "Field Marshall" jacket only available as a drop

Two step approved of this approach. Getting back to ship skins, he commented that while he understands CCP's concerns about the look of the game ("no pink ships"), EVE is a sandbox game and it would be nice to be able to be a professional ship skin designer.

CCP Huskarl appreciated this point of view, but noted there would have to be limits. There was a short discussion of possible ways to achieve the goal.

Seleene raised the issue of corporate/alliance skins and color schemes.

Two step suggested it would be nice for industrialists to be able to produce custom ships with variations in both attributes and color schemes, so that the ships could be branded.

CCP Unifex: Nice dream.

Seleene: Talk to Stoffer (CCP Soundwave) and see how far you get.

Well... they're obviously doing something. Big smile I think the "blend" approach is a really good idea.

Signatures should be used responsibly...