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Mineral Market Will Crash

Author
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#21 - 2012-08-01 05:46:21 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Except if the demand rises as fast as the supply does. I am thinking this move might create a more lasting player base, along with dust514 we may see a rapid and sustained growth for EVE in which case the demand for those minerals may stay ahead of supply. Your story is assuming the demand stays the same or goes down.

Any growth EVE experiences will bring along with it another number of risk-averse, greedy miners. If mining becomes easier/safer, then prices will drop.

The demand for minerals is relatively inelastic. Think of it this way: a player buys a Drake to go on a 0.0 roam. The roam takes two hours, and by the end, the Drake is lost. If minerals are cheaper, then the Drake is easier to acquire. However, that does not mean that the player can fly two Drakes at the same time (because he can only fly one ship at a time), or that he will spend more than two hours roaming (because he doesn't have an infinite amount of hours in a day). The only way for mineral demand to be elastic is for people to find enjoyment in getting their ships exploded in a very quick succession, which, in EVE, doesn't happen.

Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
As CCP revamps the sumer rebalance they also have the opportunity to increase the building minerals used in the construction of those ships. To place even more demand upon the supply.

I can guarantee to you that CCP will not adjust the build costs of in-game items that already exist.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#22 - 2012-08-01 05:48:25 UTC
Of course mineral prices will fall, it has after all been many years since drone poo got removed and humongous stockpiles have had time to deplete.

A small anti-gank buff to mining barges is sure to fix everything.

Nyan

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2012-08-01 05:51:45 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
A small anti-gank buff to mining barges is sure to fix everything.


hi

have you looked at the changes before you made this post because it's not a "small anti-gank buff"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Pipa Porto
#24 - 2012-08-01 05:53:53 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The demand for minerals is relatively inelastic. Think of it this way: a player buys a Drake to go on a 0.0 roam. The roam takes two hours, and by the end, the Drake is lost. If minerals are cheaper, then the Drake is easier to acquire. However, that does not mean that the player can fly two Drakes at the same time (because he can only fly one ship at a time), or that he will spend more than two hours roaming (because he doesn't have an infinite amount of hours in a day). The only way for mineral demand to be elastic is for people to find enjoyment in getting their ships exploded in a very quick succession, which, in EVE, doesn't happen.


I'm gonna mention that another potential source of elasticity is in ship choices.

I see a lot more Cruiser/Frig roams than I used to, and a lot fewer BC roams. I suspect that that is, at least in part, a response to high ship prices.

Whether my experience is common enough for it to affect mineral demand, I don't know.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-08-01 05:55:07 UTC
So be it.

My body is ready.
Gorinia Sanford
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-08-01 05:59:06 UTC
AdmiralJohn wrote:
I guarantee that along with the influx of minerals will be an influx of mad miners complaining about their precious ISK/hr, and all will be as it should be.


Eh, improvise, adapt, overcome.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#27 - 2012-08-01 05:59:40 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The demand for minerals is relatively inelastic. Think of it this way: a player buys a Drake to go on a 0.0 roam. The roam takes two hours, and by the end, the Drake is lost. If minerals are cheaper, then the Drake is easier to acquire. However, that does not mean that the player can fly two Drakes at the same time (because he can only fly one ship at a time), or that he will spend more than two hours roaming (because he doesn't have an infinite amount of hours in a day). The only way for mineral demand to be elastic is for people to find enjoyment in getting their ships exploded in a very quick succession, which, in EVE, doesn't happen.


I'm gonna mention that another potential source of elasticity is in ship choices.

I see a lot more Cruiser/Frig roams than I used to, and a lot fewer BC roams. I suspect that that is, at least in part, a response to high ship prices.

Whether my experience is common enough for it to affect mineral demand, I don't know.

While this is true, it's only true to a small extent. The guys who need to bring 300 arty Abaddons are still going to bring 300 arty Abaddons, and the guys who need Ravens to run missions are still going to use Ravens to run missions. Small-group pvp is probably the lowest source of hull destruction in the game.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Gorinia Sanford
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-08-01 06:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorinia Sanford
Torvin Yulus wrote:
AdmiralJohn wrote:
I guarantee that along with the influx of minerals will be an influx of mad miners complaining about their precious ISK/hr, and all will be as it should be.


BECAUSE IT WILL BE A LEGITMATE COMPALINT!

CCP is going to nerf the miener income because tthey don't like miners very much. mission runner isk per our is never affected by mineral prices but why is miners?

anbd people tell me that I am contributing to the problem by mining too much and that yield buffs will not make me more money well THAT IS WRONG. Increasing mining yield will get me more money because I bring in more minerals per hour!


Christ, it's called the market you dolt. Put on your big girl pants and suck it up snowflake.

EDIT: Yes, I'm a miner, I figured it was a fairly easy inroad into EvE and making some ISK. It's done me well since I started in early April. However, I do some trading from time to time (got to sell those minerals I mine and refine) and I also work on my other skills to maximize my ISK potential. If and when the market changes, I will adapt, because it does no good to whine about it.
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-08-01 06:38:18 UTC  |  Edited by: nat longshot
Torvin Yulus wrote:
AdmiralJohn wrote:
I guarantee that along with the influx of minerals will be an influx of mad miners complaining about their precious ISK/hr, and all will be as it should be.


BECAUSE IT WILL BE A LEGITMATE COMPALINT!

CCP is going to nerf the miener income because tthey don't like miners very much. mission runner isk per our is never affected by mineral prices but why is miners?

anbd people tell me that I am contributing to the problem by mining too much and that yield buffs will not make me more money well THAT IS WRONG. Increasing mining yield will get me more money because I bring in more minerals per hour!


Fact is mission running does not change with the market bounty's are a set thing. But our payout on loot and sal changes with the market so there ya go.

Setting your income to one part of the game is like fighting with one hand tied behind your back not wise and more then likey youll lose the fight.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#30 - 2012-08-01 06:38:24 UTC
Gorinia Sanford wrote:
I will adapt, because it does no good to whine about it.

Gank victims disagree, lol.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#31 - 2012-08-01 06:43:37 UTC
The prices will drop, but the drop won't be as significant as people think it will, for one reason. Miners will not start flying tanked hulks or take advantage of the buff in anyway. Simply put, miners always go for max yield in High Sec with the presumption that its perfectly safe (because it should be according to them). Even the fact that an announced event that rewards people for killing Hulks was going on it didn't suddenly prevent even a single bloody miner to alter the way they grind resources, fit ships or tactically behave.

Simply put, Miners aren't particularly clever players, its why they mine, its the simplest thing you can do in the game. It take no skills, understanding of the mechanics, practice, talent or event a smudging of intelect. Point laser at rock... sit and wait. If you get blown up, come to the forum and cry about it.

Suicide Gankers on the other hand are the most adaptive players in the game. No matter how they bloody do it, they will find a way to blow up Hulks again. In 6 years of playing this game I have never seen a time when Suicide Gankers where ever detered from anything. All they need is something to motivate them to do it and these guys are easy... a little contest that puts a crown on the best one and they will come out in droves to claim it.

I expect a drop in resource prices, but we won't see a return to 1 isk Trit days.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 

Dave stark
#32 - 2012-08-01 06:44:29 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Torvin Yulus wrote:


BECAUSE IT WILL BE A LEGITMATE COMPALINT!

CCP is going to nerf the miener income because tthey don't like miners very much. mission runner isk per our is never affected by mineral prices but why is miners?

anbd people tell me that I am contributing to the problem by mining too much and that yield buffs will not make me more money well THAT IS WRONG. Increasing mining yield will get me more money because I bring in more minerals per hour!


I just suffered a sarcasm overload reading that.


Based on his other posts I don't think that is sarcasm.


it is, he misread some thing i said yesterday and is on some kind of childish tantrum crusade.

i simply pointed out that even if miner income goes down, so do the prices of things miners buy. so in reality miners don't care because they'll sit in an asteroid belt for x hours to buy item y regardless of mineral prices. some how he managed to interpret that as something entirely different. i'm still trying to figure out exactly what he thought i meant though since he's about as eloquent as a child throwing a tantrum.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#33 - 2012-08-01 06:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Suicide Gankers on the other hand are the most adaptive players in the game. No matter how they bloody do it, they will find a way to blow up Hulks again. In 6 years of playing this game I have never seen a time when Suicide Gankers where ever detered from anything.

Gank victims disagree, lol.

Edit: I mean look, half the responses in these threads are still "GANKER TEARS LMAO!!1" despite us telling them that this isn't going to affect our ganking efforts (and in fact, is likely to increase them out of spite, just like after the CONCORD insurance removal).

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#34 - 2012-08-01 07:15:28 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Suicide Gankers on the other hand are the most adaptive players in the game. No matter how they bloody do it, they will find a way to blow up Hulks again. In 6 years of playing this game I have never seen a time when Suicide Gankers where ever detered from anything.

Gank victims disagree, lol.

Edit: I mean look, half the responses in these threads are still "GANKER TEARS LMAO!!1" despite us telling them that this isn't going to affect our ganking efforts (and in fact, is likely to increase them out of spite, just like after the CONCORD insurance removal).


Well they are the most adaptive players, but they are also the biggest cry babies in Eve.... it takes a true tard to be a ganker. But still, I admire their spunk and commitment to losing ISK for the sake of ******* with people and as one who makes ISK off their tardation, I support them whole-heartedly... but it is a fact that no matter what changes have taken place in this game, their have always been suicide gankers who found a way to make it happen. Changing the rules of the game has done nothing to deter them. Unlike Miners who haven't changed since release day, still fiting their ships exactly as they did 7 years ago, mining the same belts they did 7 years ago and still getting ganked on a regular as they did 7 years ago.

I think as long as someone out there is willing to shell out to maintain the Hulkagedon or whatever its called, there will be people trying to figuire out how to blow them up.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 

Dave stark
#35 - 2012-08-01 07:23:31 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
commitment to losing ISK for the sake of ******* with people


except that's why the barges are getting an ehp buff, because most of the time the suicide ganks weren't making a loss. when you consider 1 t2 strip miner alone is more than a catalyst hull...

ccp don't want suicide ganking to be profitable.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#36 - 2012-08-01 07:24:47 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
commitment to losing ISK for the sake of ******* with people


except that's why the barges are getting an ehp buff, because most of the time the suicide ganks weren't making a loss. when you consider 1 t2 strip miner alone is more than a catalyst hull...

ccp don't want suicide ganking to be profitable.

We'll still do it. In fact, plans are being worked on to increase gank volume over pre-barge-buff levels.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Dave stark
#37 - 2012-08-01 07:27:23 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
commitment to losing ISK for the sake of ******* with people


except that's why the barges are getting an ehp buff, because most of the time the suicide ganks weren't making a loss. when you consider 1 t2 strip miner alone is more than a catalyst hull...

ccp don't want suicide ganking to be profitable.

We'll still do it. In fact, plans are being worked on to increase gank volume over pre-barge-buff levels.


i'm glad to hear that you will.
if you carry on ganking and actually incur a loss for doing so then i have nothing to do but respect you for your dedication. however when catalysts are popping hulks like pinatas because the module drops alone will cover the cost of the concored ship, it was almost obvious another ganker "nerf" would be on it's way.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-08-01 07:27:40 UTC
AdmiralJohn wrote:
I guarantee that along with the influx of minerals will be an influx of mad miners complaining about their precious ISK/hr, and all will be as it should be.



Strangely enough Trit price just drop from 10 to 6.5 isk/un and new mining barges aren't even there.

Imho trading and market manipulations need a huge nerf bat, not mining or mining barges. Keep dumping your stuff and try to make some profit out of it.

brb

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#39 - 2012-08-01 07:30:20 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
commitment to losing ISK for the sake of ******* with people


except that's why the barges are getting an ehp buff, because most of the time the suicide ganks weren't making a loss. when you consider 1 t2 strip miner alone is more than a catalyst hull...

ccp don't want suicide ganking to be profitable.

We'll still do it. In fact, plans are being worked on to increase gank volume over pre-barge-buff levels.


Bluffing

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Dave stark
#40 - 2012-08-01 07:31:55 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
AdmiralJohn wrote:
I guarantee that along with the influx of minerals will be an influx of mad miners complaining about their precious ISK/hr, and all will be as it should be.



Strangely enough Trit price just drop from 10 to 6.5 isk/un and new mining barges aren't even there.

Imho trading and market manipulations need a huge nerf bat, not mining or mining barges. Keep dumping your stuff and try to make some profit out of it.


where are you buying your trit? over the last week or so it's gone from 7-6.5 in jita