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Help Me find a good missioning ship
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Baltarrisk
Theran Industries
#1 - 2012-08-01 04:40:16 UTC
Hello,

Ive just recently gotten back into the game after leaving for about a year before i left i liquidated everything i had thinking i wasnt coming back. Now that im back ive have started mining but feel the need to blow stuff up. Im currently located in caldari space ( lonetrek region) and have access to level 4 mission with republic security services.

My question is whats a good all around mission boat for level 4's i was thinking an ishtar as found i had one that i gave to my alt. but after trying a few fits i realized it will do crappy against angels with my skills. These are my skills http://eveboard.com/pilot/Baltarrisk what is the best level 4 ship/fit that i can fly that is reasonably priced. I dont want a 7b faction fit tengu or something like that just something that will get the job done.


Thank you,
Baltarrisk
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-08-01 05:18:03 UTC
Start with drake while you are skilling up for raven.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Rinnve Elennean
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-08-01 07:12:23 UTC
You have BC 5 and Caldari Cruiser 5, and some Heavy Missiles skills. Use DRAEK for now, train HMs at least to 4 and then train Tengu - it's not only one of the best mission running ships, but very flexible and useful platform both for PVE and PVP.
Or, you can train T2 sentry drones and use Ishtar or (better) Gila with new drone damage modules. But IMHO Tengu is much better SP investment.
And don't even consider Raven or CNR, it's dead end.
Hemdal
Space Knights Templar
Jita Holding Inc.
#4 - 2012-08-01 11:03:05 UTC
Tengu. Nuff sead.
Baltarrisk
Theran Industries
#5 - 2012-08-01 18:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Baltarrisk
Thank you for the replies. Im currently training HM5 right now can all i need to train for a tengu is the sub system skills. The issue is what should i be using for a fit? Im not really good at fitting ships. And the subsystems throw me of when fitting a tengu.


Thank You,
Baltarrisk
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-08-01 18:26:12 UTC
Hemdal wrote:
Tengu. Nuff sead.

this.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-08-01 19:35:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Baltarrisk wrote:
Thank you for the replies. Im currently training HM5 right now can all i need to train for a tengu is the sub system skills. The issue is what should i be using for a fit? Im not really good at fitting ships. And the subsystems throw me of when fitting a tengu.


It took me a few tries to wrap my head around T3s. Here's a T2 fit:

[Tengu, T2 mishin]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Medium Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

If you want to go all out and omni tank, here's an expensive option:

[Tengu, buffer booster mishin tengu]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Dread Guristas EM Ward Amplifier
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir


Notice that the subsystems are the same; this combination gives you great range, good speed, and 6 launchers with enough tank to get through anything if you keep moving. The first fit runs barely cap stable at max skills, but you can always turn off the booster every once in awhile if you don't have, say, AB 5 or Shield Compensation 5. The second fit is all about damage and damage application but also sports a pimped tank that gives you some protection against alpha strikes (from Tornados, not from mission rats).

Edit: I should disclaim that I don't use a Tengu to run missions; I just much prefer a Machariel or Nightmare depending on what space I'm in. But I do fly one for exploration. The second fit is slightly modified from one that occasionally floats around the forums and the first one is an update of another forum fit that takes advantage of the new CPU rig (the old one went for a co-processor and CCC; this gives more cap stability).
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#8 - 2012-08-02 03:34:16 UTC
People really have a massive hard-on for the Tengu. It makes me giggle.
Baltarrisk
Theran Industries
#9 - 2012-08-02 03:41:59 UTC
Paikis wrote:
People really have a massive hard-on for the Tengu. It makes me giggle.


If you have a better idea Im open. i never said i had to have a tengu from what im reading if you mess up your screwed. Id much prefer a ship that has a good tank. I linked my skills but i get battleships are a waste of sp yet ive already trained them lol. Im just looking for a decently priced level 4 mission ship that i can semi afk in lol.
Mocktar Olachenko
#10 - 2012-08-02 04:17:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocktar Olachenko
Paikis wrote:
People really have a massive hard-on for the Tengu. It makes me giggle.


Ooooo, smugposting with lack of a relevant point. Yummy.

Baltarrisk wrote:
If you have a better idea Im open. i never said i had to have a tengu from what im reading if you mess up your screwed. Id much prefer a ship that has a good tank. I linked my skills but i get battleships are a waste of sp yet ive already trained them lol. Im just looking for a decently priced level 4 mission ship that i can semi afk in lol.


Based on your skills and what you want, you should probably look to the Dominix. I can't think of any other ship that's as flexible. You can dual LAR it, aggro everything in the room, and go make dinner while your drones do all the work (albeit slowly). Alternatively, you can shield tank it, pack the lows with mags and drone damage thingies and do insane dps. Or you can take the middle ground and armor tank with 3 ddas and omnis/dncs for your sentries/heavies. Not to mention, the hulls are dirt cheap so it's easy to buy a few and rig them different ways depending on how you want to fit them. Just getting Gallente BS to 3 (4 would be better of course) would give you a very serviceable mission ship while you round out gunnery skills, though if you're going to armor tank I recommend getting Hull Upgrades V and Repair Systems V asap.

Alternatively, if you'd prefer to work on your missile skills there is the Rattlesnake, which has an exceptional tank and uses cruise missiles and drones. Also good for semi-afking. The difference being that while your hybrids on a domi are every bit as valuable as your drones, cruises on the rattler are merely supplementary dps, typically doing maybe a quarter of your total dps. There are some that torp fit Rattlesnakes but I don't have any experience with that.
Baltarrisk
Theran Industries
#11 - 2012-08-02 04:31:27 UTC
Mocktar Olachenko wrote:
Paikis wrote:
People really have a massive hard-on for the Tengu. It makes me giggle.


Ooooo, smugposting with lack of a relevant point. Yummy.

Baltarrisk wrote:
If you have a better idea Im open. i never said i had to have a tengu from what im reading if you mess up your screwed. Id much prefer a ship that has a good tank. I linked my skills but i get battleships are a waste of sp yet ive already trained them lol. Im just looking for a decently priced level 4 mission ship that i can semi afk in lol.


Based on your skills and what you want, you should probably look to the Dominix. I can't think of any other ship that's as flexible. You can dual LAR it, aggro everything in the room, and go make dinner while your drones do all the work (albeit slowly). Alternatively, you can shield tank it, pack the lows with mags and drone damage thingies and do insane dps. Or you can take the middle ground and armor tank with 3 ddas and omnis/dncs for your sentries/heavies. Not to mention, the hulls are dirt cheap so it's easy to buy a few and rig them different ways depending on how you want to fit them. Just getting Gallente BS to 3 (4 would be better of course) would give you a very serviceable mission ship while you round out gunnery skills, though if you're going to armor tank I recommend getting Hull Upgrades V and Repair Systems V asap.

Alternatively, if you'd prefer to work on your missile skills there is the Rattlesnake, which has an exceptional tank and uses cruise missiles and drones. Also good for semi-afking. The difference being that while your hybrids on a domi are every bit as valuable as your drones, cruises on the rattler are merely supplementary dps, typically doing maybe a quarter of your total dps. There are some that torp fit Rattlesnakes but I don't have any experience with that.


I had entirely forgot about the domi i used to use one when i was in null to complement my alt running an ishtar. I had planned on using the ishtar but it seems the missions id be getting (aka angel) missions the ishtar sucks at tanking. granted im in guristas space i have no clue why im getting angel missions lol.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#12 - 2012-08-02 05:19:44 UTC
Mocktar Olachenko wrote:
Paikis wrote:
People really have a massive hard-on for the Tengu. It makes me giggle.


Ooooo, smugposting with lack of a relevant point. Yummy.


I tire of typing the same stuff out over and over... however, once more it is.

Tengus are good ships, but they are not the godmobiles that people on this forum make them out to be. They have several weaknesses that Battleships don't have;
- The damage comes from the massive bonus to kinetic. The minute you're shooting something without a Kinetic weakness, the Tengu's effectiveness takes a nose-dive.
- The tank comes from moving fast and having a small sig. If you get webbed, you're going to explode. If you get target painted, you're going to be taking more damage.
- No drones. Gotta shoot the frigs.

Having said that, the Tengu will be a good choice for missions with lots of travel, against kinetic-weak rats. For everything else, a battleship is better.
Mocktar Olachenko
#13 - 2012-08-02 05:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocktar Olachenko
Paikis wrote:

I tire of typing the same stuff out over and over... however, once more it is.

Tengus are good ships, but they are not the godmobiles that people on this forum make them out to be. They have several weaknesses that Battleships don't have;
- The damage comes from the massive bonus to kinetic. The minute you're shooting something without a Kinetic weakness, the Tengu's effectiveness takes a nose-dive.
- The tank comes from moving fast and having a small sig. If you get webbed, you're going to explode. If you get target painted, you're going to be taking more damage.
- No drones. Gotta shoot the frigs.

Having said that, the Tengu will be a good choice for missions with lots of travel, against kinetic-weak rats. For everything else, a battleship is better.


That's a lot more constructive, thanks. To address your points:

1) Thankfully, missiles do come in different damage flavors. While you lose the 25% dmg bonus, I believe math has been done (I'm in no way bored enough to find the threads but they're out there) showing that even without the bonus, damage appropriate missiles will still do more damage than just sticking with Scourge. Anecdotally speaking, I'm lazy and still stick with Scourge for everything and I do fine. Sure, those Sansha and Blood Raider missions take a little longer, but I generally blitz anyway.

2) All it takes is a little situational awareness. See webs, immediately kill webbers. If the trigger is the one webbing, kill it and burn away and make use of your range.

3) With three rigor rigs, Target Nav Prediction at IV and Guided Missile Precision at III (far from perfect skills) I still kill frigates very quickly even with T1 missiles. Is it faster than drones? No, but it's not that much longer either.

No the Tengu is not a godmobile, but no ship is and if there was we'd all be using it. Its deficiencies however are, IMO, easier to overcome than other ships. But to each their own.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2012-08-02 06:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Paikis wrote:

Tengus are good ships, but they are not the godmobiles that people on this forum make them out to be. They have several weaknesses that Battleships don't have;
- The damage comes from the massive bonus to kinetic. The minute you're shooting something without a Kinetic weakness, the Tengu's effectiveness takes a nose-dive.
- The tank comes from moving fast and having a small sig. If you get webbed, you're going to explode. If you get target painted, you're going to be taking more damage.
- No drones. Gotta shoot the frigs.

Having said that, the Tengu will be a good choice for missions with lots of travel, against kinetic-weak rats. For everything else, a battleship is better.


Pretty much agreed. Webs are a problem (though nets are even worse). Like I said already, I don't use a Tengu for missions.

As for damage types, shooting Blood/Sansha with Scourge is just as bad as shooting Guristas and Angels with Scorch: not recommended. Serpentis will go down in either case really.

I have to admit I didn't look at the skill sheet in question. If a Dominix is really that close then it's a very good option; I'd happily take one over a Tengu and a Navy Domi twice over. Travel time will be more of an issue though.

Edit: if you do end up with a Tengu, Scourge for everything except Bloods, Sansha, and Amarr, Mjolnir for them. Rogue Drones are an edge case but usually the damage bonus covers the resistance difference. Precision helps on tackle frigs and really, really helps on spider drones.
Baltarrisk
Theran Industries
#15 - 2012-08-02 07:29:47 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:


I have to admit I didn't look at the skill sheet in question. If a Dominix is really that close then it's a very good option; I'd happily take one over a Tengu and a Navy Domi twice over. Travel time will be more of an issue though.


i can fly a fairly decent dominix i guess ill just go with that for now. speed isnt really a bother as i usually salvage anyway.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-08-02 08:10:58 UTC
Paikis wrote:
I tire of typing the same stuff out over and over... however, once more it is.

Tengus are good ships, but they are not the godmobiles that people on this forum make them out to be. They have several weaknesses that Battleships don't have;
- The damage comes from the massive bonus to kinetic. The minute you're shooting something without a Kinetic weakness, the Tengu's effectiveness takes a nose-dive.
- The tank comes from moving fast and having a small sig. If you get webbed, you're going to explode. If you get target painted, you're going to be taking more damage.
- No drones. Gotta shoot the frigs.

Having said that, the Tengu will be a good choice for missions with lots of travel, against kinetic-weak rats. For everything else, a battleship is better.


What he said, with one additional note: Tengu is actually superior to Battleship for missions with lots of small targets (frigs-cruisers), because even if you have to shoot them, they drop a LOT faster than vs. drones. On the other hand, a good battleship, such as CNR, with absolutely destroy the Tengu on Battleship heavy missions, where cruise missiles, torpedoes or heavy guns can hit reliably and with full power.

Long story short: use both and switch according to the mission :)
hwhiskey
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-08-02 08:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: hwhiskey
Tengus really only have an advantage in L4s when you're dealing with very specific conditions: blitzing missions for a corp that sends you fighting kinetic weak rats most of the time, with an LP store where you're getting a very good lp/isk payout ratio.

Beyond that, for about the same price tag you could get a perfectly great navy domi, shield tank it, and throw out 1100 dps with t1 guns and t2 sentries while still fielding a respectable tank. Or you could just a regular domi or two and use the advantage of being able to tailor your tank extremely well to whatever mission you've got lined up.

If you're willing to spend the training time to get t2 sentries, you'll fall in love with the domi. Also, dual LAR cap stable fits are perfect for stepping away for a minute or forty and coming back to a room full of wrecks.

Edit: Here's a domi fit i threw together

[Dominix, shield l4]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Garde II x5

Decent resists, 1100 dps with fation ammo and no implants. One thing to note is that while you could fit 6 350mm guns, I much prefer 5 of the big guns and the DLA because there's a lot of missions where without a DLA your sentries can't start firing right away, which serious adds to completion times.

Can swap out the LSB for an ALSB or AXLSB if getting cap charges isn't a problem. This would allows you to fit a DCII and swap the cap rigs out. Tank is a bit light so be careful on certain missions, but with proper range/trigger management you'll pop things so fast it won't matter.
Baltarrisk
Theran Industries
#18 - 2012-08-02 18:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Baltarrisk
Thanks for all the help. I had an alt that could use just about every T2 drone including sentries. so there on my list of must trains. i have a couple decent armor tanked domi setups ive never tried to shield tank one. i have an alt that i was gonna set to salvaging duties but i may bring them along as support i havent decided yet. I also tried my hand and fitted a fairly decent rattlesnake with torps and just about a 800dps passive shield tank i just dont feel like spending ~600mil for a ship right now lol.
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-08-02 18:50:13 UTC
Baltarrisk wrote:
Paikis wrote:
People really have a massive hard-on for the Tengu. It makes me giggle.


If you have a better idea Im open. i never said i had to have a tengu from what im reading if you mess up your screwed.


Whoever told you that is bad and they should feel bad. Nothing outtanks a Tengu.

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
Rinnve Elennean
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-08-02 20:55:26 UTC
Zicon Shak'ra wrote:
Baltarrisk wrote:
Paikis wrote:
People really have a massive hard-on for the Tengu. It makes me giggle.


If you have a better idea Im open. i never said i had to have a tengu from what im reading if you mess up your screwed.


Whoever told you that is bad and they should feel bad. Nothing outtanks a Tengu.

r u trolling or what? Tengu is good little sturdy cruiser, but it's cruiser still. Properly fitted tanky BS like Rattlesnake or Navy Dominix can take much more beating while requiring much less flight skills (and i'm not talking about SP).
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