These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

FW Plexing "Alts" - why hate them?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-07-24 11:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
Why do people hate FW plexing alts so much? I don't mean me in particular as I am not an "alt" but there are actual alts in Minmatar FW who plex all day long to get LP. Every single person I see hating on those "plex farmers" also farm LP themselves by doing either plexes or L4 FW missions (the majority of those haters do L4 FW missions). Funnily enough those L4 missions are pretty much easier and faster than plexes and in some ways, safer since you can run most in a single SB in very little time.

Most haters of "plex farmers" actually create more LP and make more ISK than those farmer alts due to those L4 missions. However, their L4 FW mission farming doesn't do anything to contest the systems. Thus, I believe that "plex farmers" are doing Minmatar FW a lot of good compared to those haters, because:

1) Plex farmers help contest the system
2) L4 missions do not do anything to contest the system but give more LP (which in the end means more ISK)

The hate for "plex farmers" is actually based on the notion that those alts "do nothing to help" and "are only here for the ISK" but that's strange because those L4 mission runners actually don't help anything at all and make 5-10 times the ISK a plex farmer does.

So I would say that if anyone should hate anything, L4 mission runners should be hated and plex farmers should be embraced.

The only argument against plex farmers is the fact that L4 mission runners get more LP so they can donate more per week to help us hit T5 every Sunday/Monday. However plex farmers should still be embraced as plexes are needed to contest the system. So "prawns" or "noobs" like those FW plexing alts are needed to contest the systems while "veterans" run the L4 missions in a SB to get more LP so they can donate more per week. So everyone wins - the noobs get their small ISK bonus per week and do their part to help FW, the veterans push us to T5 which in turn keeps the noobs plexing. This is a perfect circle that will not end anytime soon.

So... why the irrational hate? Should I mark it down to a "people are people" kind of thing? Eerily enough this feels like a "pvper hates miner" kind of hate - you know, that kind of hate where people just hate a certain category of players just because they need to hate something.

Thoughts?

.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-07-24 11:54:52 UTC
haters gonna hate

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-07-24 14:44:05 UTC
tbh, I believe every popular/public care bear action gets hate. L4 mission runners, incursion runners etc etc. Remember when Incursions was the big money maker? Forums were blowing up with hate and communities were created to stop them.

Don't worry, when FW gets nerfed during the winter expansion and something else becomes the #1 isk making tool, that will get hate too
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-07-31 02:50:34 UTC
The plex alts get hated because they are more often than not no-skill noob alts in t1 frigates, who simply speed tank and have absolutely nothing at stake.

A person in a stealth bomber running missions likely used FW missions for income long before this revamp. They skilled for it and at least have something at stake in terms of potential isk loss.

There was a barrier to entry before, and a learning curve in trying not to lose too many bombers to pirates or opposing militia. Now it's just a free for all. Any noob alt can rack up tons of lp for clicking orbit for 10-20minutes, which in and of itself is broken. Nothing else in the game allows a completely new character to make that level of income.
Adam Junior
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-07-31 13:08:45 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
tbh, I believe every popular/public care bear action gets hate. L4 mission runners, incursion runners etc etc. Remember when Incursions was the big money maker? Forums were blowing up with hate and communities were created to stop them.

Don't worry, when FW gets nerfed during the winter expansion and something else becomes the #1 isk making tool, that will get hate too

Except wormholes.

Wormholes have the highest reward PvE in the game but hate seems sparse. Maybe you're right and the hate will start in winter. I'd love to see some angry forum-warriors try to gank a couple of C6 caps. (particularly I'd love to see it work)
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#6 - 2012-07-31 15:17:06 UTC
Farming in general is bad, no matter what is being farmed. It is bad in all games of all types. It messes with the game designers ability yo design cool content, because someone will just farm it and they have to waste type building in safeguards or nerfing the content after it has been farmed.

The reason farming is bad is a person is being rewarded fr an activity on a repetive basis, in area that once you have the pattern down it can be repeated sucessfully over and over. It has very little to do with skill or risk and all about ability to stay logged in for hours and withstand the tedium and/or risk of being caught afk playing/macroing.

This particular one is spectacularly bad since it requires very little capital to get started, involves near zero risk (a t1 frig with minimal fitting, and a implantless clone), is most likley could be done mostly "afk" by many people multi box, and is getting the way of the classic farmer (No life play 14 hours a day from mom's basement, but solid skills).

Why is farming bad - creates money or resources outside the planning scale of the game, why this is worse - It actually effects another game players game play beyond the fact you have more resources - it changes the blance of control in FW, it may well be the lowest entry cost - hghest reward per anount of mental effort out there. At least Incursions you needed a great PVE ship, a soliod Pilot, and be at the keyboard most of the time. This appears to be a little less engaging.


Mostly disintrested observer, your milage may vary.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-07-31 15:29:23 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:
Farming in general is bad, no matter what is being farmed. It is bad in all games of all types. It messes with the game designers ability yo design cool content, because someone will just farm it and they have to waste type building in safeguards or nerfing the content after it has been farmed.

The reason farming is bad is a person is being rewarded fr an activity on a repetive basis, in area that once you have the pattern down it can be repeated sucessfully over and over. It has very little to do with skill or risk and all about ability to stay logged in for hours and withstand the tedium and/or risk of being caught afk playing/macroing.

This particular one is spectacularly bad since it requires very little capital to get started, involves near zero risk (a t1 frig with minimal fitting, and a implantless clone), is most likley could be done mostly "afk" by many people multi box, and is getting the way of the classic farmer (No life play 14 hours a day from mom's basement, but solid skills).

Why is farming bad - creates money or resources outside the planning scale of the game, why this is worse - It actually effects another game players game play beyond the fact you have more resources - it changes the blance of control in FW, it may well be the lowest entry cost - hghest reward per anount of mental effort out there. At least Incursions you needed a great PVE ship, a soliod Pilot, and be at the keyboard most of the time. This appears to be a little less engaging.


Mostly disintrested observer, your milage may vary.


So blowing ships up, mining, complex sites, ratting, playing the market, moon mining, etc everything in EVE is bad because it's done on a repetitive basis?

.
Ginger Barbarella
#8 - 2012-07-31 18:47:53 UTC
Why hate them? Because it makes bad poasting on this Forum make people with low self-esteem feel awesome ragging on someone about something they themselves do, too.

How's that?

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
tookar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-07-31 22:32:03 UTC
These afk plexers can be dissuaded by disrupting them with pvp. All you need is a point and web and the npcs will take care of the rest.
A Lach/rapier combo is especially awesome since it's only visible on dscan for a couple of seconds.
I made an alt just to try out the whole plexing for isk thing in the caldari militia and I don't really see the problem. Every single site I've tried to take I've either had enemy militia or local pirates warp in to contest the site, which leaves nothing but hours of time wasted travelling ond orbiting only to be chased off time and time again.

The only success I've had is working in small gangs and killing anyone who tries to interrupt, which is probably as the system was intended.
Kikusama
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-07-31 23:48:44 UTC
tookar wrote:
These afk plexers can be dissuaded by disrupting them with pvp. All you need is a point and web and the npcs will take care of the rest.

They fit warp stabilizers. I caught a Merlin point blank, he warped away before my 2nd volley. And that's only because I was at the warp in, if I get inside the plex the "butan" is around 60-70km away and the NPCs don't scram, so basically he has all the time in the world to warp off.

Also, they don't fit guns. It's embarassing to kill one of these guys because his gunless ship will forever be etched on your killboard.

tookar wrote:
A Lach/rapier combo is especially awesome since it's only visible on dscan for a couple of seconds.

Let me see you how you get a recon through a minor plex gate.

tookar wrote:
I made an alt just to try out the whole plexing for isk thing in the caldari militia and I don't really see the problem. Every single site I've tried to take I've either had enemy militia or local pirates warp in to contest the site, which leaves nothing but hours of time wasted travelling ond orbiting only to be chased off time and time again.

I did the same thing. Made me three RFFs in 30 minutes. Seemed like cheating. Seriously.

tookar wrote:
The only success I've had is working in small gangs and killing anyone who tries to interrupt, which is probably as the system was intended.

I don't think you realise how many systems (other than the vastly populated with ebil piwats and oppossing militia) are there to be farmed.

Guns make the news. Science doesn't.
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-07-31 23:58:05 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:

So blowing ships up, mining, complex sites, ratting, playing the market, moon mining, etc everything in EVE is bad because it's done on a repetitive basis?

So did you just decide not to ackowledge the fact that it's bad because people are able to make ridiculous income with brand new alts in empty clones and frigates costing all of 100K isk..

It takes no player skill, no character skillpoints, it makes some of the best isk/hr in the game, you could probably do it in literally a noob ship, oh and you don't even have to be at your keyboard.

Those just might be the reasons why people aren't too fond of it.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-08-01 12:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
Whar Target wrote:
Private Pineapple wrote:

So blowing ships up, mining, complex sites, ratting, playing the market, moon mining, etc everything in EVE is bad because it's done on a repetitive basis?

So did you just decide not to ackowledge the fact that it's bad because people are able to make ridiculous income with brand new alts in empty clones and frigates costing all of 100K isk..

It takes no player skill, no character skillpoints, it makes some of the best isk/hr in the game, you could probably do it in literally a noob ship, oh and you don't even have to be at your keyboard.

Those just might be the reasons why people aren't too fond of it.


So? "Hate the game, not the player" comes to mind. I even made a thread on the General Discussion forums a while ago about getting this crap nerfed because I made a billion ISK off plexing in my first week with zero seed money (I am just returning to the game, so this is my main character).

And you know what happened?... I posted that thread in Militia chat and even the same haters today hated me for trying to nerf the ISK gain. A lot of the supposedly die-hard militia veterans are no different than the plexing alts - they want their ISK and will hate on anyone trying to nerf their ISK, but the hypocrisy is going "noooo i dont want noobie plex alts to get isk too! only i should be able to get isk, no one else should be able to".

I think I indirectly stated the above in my OP. Those militia veterans make even more ISK than plexing alts because they have access to streamlining L4 missions all day for millions of LP per day - something plex alts will never be able to match. It does not make sense the veterans hate plexers, especially since those plexers are needed to get systems...

.
Jack Togenada
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-08-02 02:19:43 UTC
I hate plexing for it's randomness(Why is the plex here?) and I enjoy FW missions. That being said both of them should be Nerfed in terms of LP.

I'd prefer plexes to start as missions that don't appear in the overview and turn into plexes once the mission objective is met. Only a small portion of the LP should come from finishing the mission. I think this would make plexing more meaningful and give mission a more strategic feel.
Lady Aja
#14 - 2012-08-02 16:01:52 UTC
i see no hating on fw pilots who use alts to run the mission for them.

that was a personal pet peeve of mine when pilots did that.

also the fw missions are far to easy to complete .

I also heard rumours that matar fw pilots wanted lp for defending plex's after they took most of the amarr ones so there was almost nothing left to attack and gain easy as lp with.

heck i am giving strong consideration to getting a fw pilot my self.
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!