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New dev blog: Tech is fine l2p

First post First post
Author
Charlemeign
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#941 - 2012-07-30 21:44:46 UTC
Sigras wrote:
In eve, I would love to invent a different type of T2 ship that doesnt use Tech, but I cant. Until I can, CCP does need to put in something to allow people to break monopolies.



Yeah, I fully understand that there is absolutely no other way you can break monopolies in Eve.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#942 - 2012-07-30 22:24:19 UTC
Charlemeign wrote:
Sigras wrote:
In eve, I would love to invent a different type of T2 ship that doesnt use Tech, but I cant. Until I can, CCP does need to put in something to allow people to break monopolies.



Yeah, I fully understand that there is absolutely no other way you can break monopolies in Eve.


Yes but those other ways are hard :(

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Janeos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#943 - 2012-07-30 22:59:28 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Charlemeign wrote:
Sigras wrote:
In eve, I would love to invent a different type of T2 ship that doesnt use Tech, but I cant. Until I can, CCP does need to put in something to allow people to break monopolies.



Yeah, I fully understand that there is absolutely no other way you can break monopolies in Eve.


Yes but those other ways are hard :(

And require gunz and stuff. Guns are scary.
Kyle Myr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#944 - 2012-07-31 00:42:13 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
I was all like :sadpanda: when we were told to move to Period Basis. Then I looked at dotlan.

Known Period Basis Moons.

Sov Holders

vOv




Don't trust Dotlan's moon scan data. At best, it's incomplete. At worst, it's a fabrication.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#945 - 2012-07-31 01:03:42 UTC
Kyle Myr wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
I was all like :sadpanda: when we were told to move to Period Basis. Then I looked at dotlan.

Known Period Basis Moons.

Sov Holders

vOv




Don't trust Dotlan's moon scan data. At best, it's incomplete. At worst, it's a fabrication.

Those scans are likely accurate because when they were uploaded there'd have been no reason to lie.
Kyle Myr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#946 - 2012-07-31 02:35:32 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Kyle Myr wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
I was all like :sadpanda: when we were told to move to Period Basis. Then I looked at dotlan.

Known Period Basis Moons.

Sov Holders

vOv




Don't trust Dotlan's moon scan data. At best, it's incomplete. At worst, it's a fabrication.

Those scans are likely accurate because when they were uploaded there'd have been no reason to lie.


Fair enough. I'd certainly believe Cobalt, but I just remember the odd bit of 'found' Tech that some director other squirreled away that we happened across in the north in Branch, Tenal, and Venal. No one had reasons to lie about Cobalt, though, as it wasn't profitable (then, or likely now), then, so I see why you say that.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#947 - 2012-07-31 03:33:01 UTC
Indeed. I always put the probes to a moon before dropping a moon harvesting array. I was more or less pointing out the prevalence of cobalt in Period Basis, rather than the exact locations.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Misaka Todako
Close Proximity
#948 - 2012-07-31 06:37:07 UTC
Sigras wrote:
In eve, I would love to invent a different type of T2 ship that doesnt use Tech, but I cant. Until I can, CCP does need to put in something to allow people to break monopolies.


I think that feature you're looking for is called "Guns". You should give them a try!
Sigras
Conglomo
#949 - 2012-07-31 08:00:00 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Sigras wrote:
ummmm . . . alliance owned stations/outposts already give the brokers fees to the owning corp.

We want the taxes, which are much larger.

im sorry but the game needs all the isk sinks it can get . . .
Sigras
Conglomo
#950 - 2012-07-31 08:04:51 UTC
Misaka Todako wrote:
Sigras wrote:
In eve, I would love to invent a different type of T2 ship that doesnt use Tech, but I cant. Until I can, CCP does need to put in something to allow people to break monopolies.


I think that feature you're looking for is called "Guns". You should give them a try!

No, the closest thing to the feature Im looking for is called "spies" Its the only way that BoB was defeated, and it would be the only way to break the goons.

These large empires have too much isk and manpower, they cannot be fought, BoB proved that.

Also, apparently CCP sides with me; read the first two paragraphs. :D
UtamaDoc
Heavywater Innovations
#951 - 2012-07-31 11:02:02 UTC
Goon Tears are best Tears.

I don't think it's rocket science, there are a number of arguements to come up with here.

CCP stepping in is not a player driven game... point taken, but when said players spew countless, POS farms across their space and into space not owned by them including low sec that to me is wrong.

it does nothing but promote blob warfare and although yes this game is incredibly social not everyone can spend 23/7 playing the game. Back in 2006 the game was exciting, there were things that small hit and run groups could do. Take a look now and everything points towards blob and alliance whoring memberships.

Ring mining moon goo does not appeal to me in the slightest, just like having industry level 5 and not being able to capture hulks and orca's mining anoms.... Again another mechanic designed to make - creating ISK safe.

Technetium and all moon goo should be seen as oil, eventually it runs out and a new source is found, it really depends on how CCP view null sec....

Do they want eco systems? where people in null sec GTFO out of Jita and live in THEIR space or do they want regions to import and export between each other - in that case the regions need more Differientiation. What will drive conflict is the ability to distrupt each regions activities, I have tried to phrase this next sentence in a way that points to in game mechanics being responsible for the seeminlgy stagnation. this does not include goons going to delve becuase "Weeze can" becuase lets face it they have by far, too much influence in the game becuase "they can".

Everything about null sec requires massive fleets. to me the Fun scale starts at:
1 - 20 man Fleets = Hell fun
21 - 50 man Fleet = fun but the screw is turning
51+ = Eye candy for a bigger blob

With most alliances and corps being several hundred not Thousands then creating activities that "can disrupt SOV holding alliance" would be what causes conflict. Eve news 24 writes a very good post on how everything in game is adding to the stagnation. I remember the days of 10 man fleets being able to disturpt isk making fairly effectively when ISK making in null sec was just anoms and belt ratting.

The point here is that moon goo is a fairly safe ISK activity unless you have a whole lot of people and resource yourself. What I would like to see is CCP return to the days of giving players the ability to easily disrupt ISK making in null sec.

I would have a fair bet that the majority of people who play eve want more choice in PVP, including ways for small gangs to really do some damage. Dominion promised it but the incredibly boring game mechanic of TCU shooting and 3 timers meant for me i'd rather sit in a AFK cloaky. Having a fairly low HP complex that if destroyed effected the bounty on rats or value of ore or caused pos's to go temporily offline (5 minutes tops lets be honest an hour is a lot of time )...that for me would bring back the 10 man hit and run squads and give them a reason to pvp or not just to get a fleet up to " gate camp" or to be caught by a hot drop of 10 man carriers and what other I-win buttons there are.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#952 - 2012-07-31 12:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
UtamaDoc wrote:
CCP stepping in is not a player driven game... point taken,

infact in Phase I they are not even touching the current tech mining system at all. They just add a more or less crappy option for other players to get some tech aswell. That option to react tech via Alchemy is open to everyone (including Goons), wich apparently makes it unfair ><

Phase II however will prolly hit Technetium directly (wouldnt make sense to point that out for Phase I, if it wouldnt be a different case in Phase II), there for i suggest to save some tears for later, when you really need themBlink

shar'ra phone home

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#953 - 2012-07-31 15:04:12 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Sigras wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Sigras wrote:
ummmm . . . alliance owned stations/outposts already give the brokers fees to the owning corp.

We want the taxes, which are much larger.

im sorry but the game needs all the isk sinks it can get . . .


The overwhelming majority of market tax in this game is paid right down in Jita 4-4 (8.1T worth of market transactions in a day, 4.8T of which were in Jita), whereas VFK is absolutely miniscule (0.72% of Jita). If I work backwards through some of Diagoras' stats, us getting market taxes in VFK would be an additional 12B/mo of income - for comparison, a total of 1.75T is removed per month.

That 12B doesn't sound like much, but with CCP nerfing moons now and talking about removing moons as the source of moongoo in the future with no promises on replacing even a fraction of the income we get from them, every little bit helps. Meanwhile, on the isk sink front, it's a rounding error.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#954 - 2012-07-31 15:46:15 UTC
Haw, goons are sad.

I like the goons, but sadness is amusing.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#955 - 2012-07-31 16:41:15 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Kyle Myr wrote:
Don't trust Dotlan's moon scan data. At best, it's incomplete. At worst, it's a fabrication.

Those scans are likely accurate because when they were uploaded there'd have been no reason to lie.

What you might find is the occasional moon that was labelled as a 'worthless' cobalt to disguise a 'valuable' dyspro/prom moon, as they would have been at the time of the data being submitted.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

UtamaDoc
Heavywater Innovations
#956 - 2012-07-31 17:53:27 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Sigras wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Sigras wrote:
ummmm . . . alliance owned stations/outposts already give the brokers fees to the owning corp.

We want the taxes, which are much larger.

im sorry but the game needs all the isk sinks it can get . . .


The overwhelming majority of market tax in this game is paid right down in Jita 4-4 (8.1T worth of market transactions in a day, 4.8T of which were in Jita), whereas VFK is absolutely miniscule (0.72% of Jita). If I work backwards through some of Diagoras' stats, us getting market taxes in VFK would be an additional 12B/mo of income - for comparison, a total of 1.75T is removed per month.

That 12B doesn't sound like much, but with CCP nerfing moons now and talking about removing moons as the source of moongoo in the future with no promises on replacing even a fraction of the income we get from them, every little bit helps. Meanwhile, on the isk sink front, it's a rounding error.


Show me where it says removal of moon mining
Zhade Lezte
#957 - 2012-07-31 19:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhade Lezte
corestwo wrote:
Sigras wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Sigras wrote:
ummmm . . . alliance owned stations/outposts already give the brokers fees to the owning corp.

We want the taxes, which are much larger.

im sorry but the game needs all the isk sinks it can get . . .


The overwhelming majority of market tax in this game is paid right down in Jita 4-4 (8.1T worth of market transactions in a day, 4.8T of which were in Jita), whereas VFK is absolutely miniscule (0.72% of Jita). If I work backwards through some of Diagoras' stats, us getting market taxes in VFK would be an additional 12B/mo of income - for comparison, a total of 1.75T is removed per month.

That 12B doesn't sound like much, but with CCP nerfing moons now and talking about removing moons as the source of moongoo in the future with no promises on replacing even a fraction of the income we get from them, every little bit helps. Meanwhile, on the isk sink front, it's a rounding error.


Not to mention that every sovholding alliance already has to deal with an additional isk sink that no highsec or sov-free nullsec entity has to.
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#958 - 2012-07-31 19:12:45 UTC
Sigras wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Sigras wrote:
ummmm . . . alliance owned stations/outposts already give the brokers fees to the owning corp.

We want the taxes, which are much larger.

im sorry but the game needs all the isk sinks it can get . . .


(hahaha he thinks the transaction tax in VFK isn't negligible as an ISK sink)
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#959 - 2012-07-31 19:14:55 UTC
UtamaDoc wrote:


it does nothing but promote blob warfare and although yes this game is incredibly social not everyone can spend 23/7 playing the game. Back in 2006 the game was exciting, there were things that small hit and run groups could do. Take a look now and everything points towards blob and alliance whoring memberships.


Blob warfare, the metagame and space Game Of Thrones politics are literally the only reasons to play EVE. Small gang elite pvp (tildes, tildes) can be had in every other game in the world, including Call of Duty, Halo, World of Tanks, etc. There is no other game that offers 2000 vs 2000 space battles.
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#960 - 2012-07-31 19:17:09 UTC
Hell if you're into mining and industry and you hate blobs, you might as well try Minecraft or Dwarf Fortress.