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Stealth Bombers

Author
Antonio Medichi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-07-30 21:37:47 UTC
Hello internet.

Since Wh is not quite as pew-pewey as i had hoped, i think i need to change up how i do stuff. and that brings me to stealth bombers, for me meaning the hound. So, in wh space should i even bother with bombs, or are they the most useful tool for hunting? Also, how good are torpedoes? Thirdly, how the hell do u use em?

Yes im a noob, sorry if any bitter vets got severely butthurt by me asking a question.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-07-30 21:51:52 UTC
I am a bit lost as to how you don't find w-space "pew pewy" enough. Don't think that I am judging you or your alliance, but you might want to look for a more active home, here is a comparison of your alliance to some other notable w-space groups: http://whkills.info/stats/?all_id=519

Having said that, SBs are pretty good for w-space but you will always be hunting for fairly small prey and you will spend a lot of time hunting. Any decent size group will be able to assemble a quick response to a lone SB, so that leaves a lot of solo or small groups as your prey. Then you will need to pick the perfect timing, ganking Noctii is pretty easy but will still require that you wait out till the prey finishes their sites. I'd have to say you just need to train into cov ops T3s instead and try to find a decently active group.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#3 - 2012-07-31 05:58:04 UTC
A solo Stealth bomber is pretty much pointless against most T3's. Your torpedoes and Bombs do fairly minor damage.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#4 - 2012-07-31 06:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
It's a lot of fun against haulers and salvagers and weak targets in general, but a lone stealth bomber is quite limited in how much pain it can cause to a proper corporation. Perfect for flying when you are bored but not of much use in actual warfare, unless you fit it with 600M worth of modules and have a skirmish link alt, but that is a bit of a stretch.

The debate between bombs, probes and smartbombs so far has no winner, but everyone agrees on how awesome torpedoes are.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2012-07-31 06:57:53 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
I am a bit lost as to how you don't find w-space "pew pewy" enough. Don't think that I am judging you or your alliance, but you might want to look for a more active home, here is a comparison of your alliance to some other notable w-space groups: http://whkills.info/stats/?all_id=519


VoC has 1559 ship kills in July. 154 of those in w-space. RnK 354 total, 2 in w-space.

Although not as dramatic, the trend is evident in all those figures- less than half of "WH alliance" kills actually happen in w-space. Even if you calculate in that some kills take place on low/null side of a wormhole, while the fighting happened inside, I think it's just honest to say that we all seek pew outside w-space on a regular basis. Summertime especially has been very quiet, I hope people get more active in the coming months.

Stalking can be fun, and I guess higher class whs are easier to cycle because of caps, but sometimes I just want to fly out to low and get near-instant pew without all the hassle of finding targets w-space.

I also hope that some people grow a pair Twisted

@ OP, I agree with Gnaw that a cloaky T3 is quite a bit more useful than a solo bomber in w-space.

.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6 - 2012-07-31 16:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
^^ Yeah this summer wormhole space has been almost as quiet as its been since ~2009. Back in the winter/spring I couldn't even open our static without finding stuff to shoot at, last 2-3 months theres been days when you could crash your static 10-20 times without finding anything noteworthy.


In the right hands the stealthbomber is quite capable, not great against T3s due to the damage application on small sigs but I know a couple of people who tear up wormhole space in them soloing BCs and BS on a regular basis.
Nostradamouse Riraille
S.M.U.G.G.L.E.
#7 - 2012-07-31 18:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nostradamouse Riraille
Eh... Honestly, change corp.


For example, SRS has roams every US East/ Central time evenings. If you want pew, then join Transmission Lost, Elysian Empire, Verge of Collapse, SRS, Talocan or any other reputable wormhole corp/alliance.

Fun will happen.

Even tribal band... (but I think these guys only do null now)
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-08-01 01:00:33 UTC
Antonio Medichi wrote:
Since Wh is not quite as pew-pewey as i had hoped, i think i need to change up how i do stuff. and that brings me to stealth bombers, for me meaning the hound. So, in wh space should i even bother with bombs, or are they the most useful tool for hunting? Also, how good are torpedoes? Thirdly, how the hell do u use em?


Wall of text warning. If you're TL-DR person then skip to the next posting.

Stealth bombers, gang or solo, are a lot of fun. A well flown stealth bomber can obtain a lot of solo kills and a well-run bomber fleet can vapourise formidable targets before they even obtain a lock on their attackers.

A hound is a good bomber, in fact they’re all good. The hound (and purifier) has one less midslots and one more lowslot than the manitcore (nemesis). The hound is smaller and faster and can deliver some pretty prodigious levels of damage … especially when you remind yourself that it’s a frigate. The downside is, as with all stealth bombers, that it is kinda ‘paper thin’ when it comes to tank.

Solo w-space bomber PvP is, in my experience, a chess game … and I enjoy chess. Lots of thinking, planning, and preparing for every move you make [1]. If you’re an instant-gratification kind of dood then you may not find it appealing. If you’re not, then it can be a lot of fun.
If you’re solo another critical element, along with infinite patience, is target choice. There are so many things you will not be able to kill solo, a few that you will, and an in-between group where you may be able to (depending on their fit, pilot skill, and luck).

Haulers. W-space PI haulers have been my PvP-noob bread-and-butter. They’re not sexy kills but they are also not without small challenges. I used to bomb-torp, but now I only torp them. Usually you’re hunting one hauler at a time, so your point and torps are a good way to go.
A T2 deep space transport has +2 warp core so for the run-of-the-mill solo bomber they are virtually uncatchable. I was stalking one, having fit a -3 faction scram especially, only to have him warp-away laughing about the stab he had also fitted. When I go back (I have a scanner alt camped in the system) I’ll try for a manti with two scrams.
T2 blockade runners don’t often get used for PI but when they do they are fairly easy catches when they land on the POCO / CO and are uncloaked.
A sensible hauler pilot will warp to somewhere-else before heading to any of the planet POCOs [2] ... but most warp directly from the POS to the POCO, so you can watch them go, and many methodically visit planet I, then II, then III etc. I usually go for tackle on the second or third planet, warping to the first POCO at 100km. This is because they have quite a headstart on the first as it is usually towards the system centre and not so easy for me to be sure which they're heading to. When they're warping from one POCO to the next it is very easy to see which, well before they're in warp, and be there to greet them.

Miners. One bomb is able to put a mining fleet into their pods. Often you’re hunting fleets of miners, plus their hauler or, if you’re lucky, an orca. A well-placed bomb is great here, perhaps while you work to get your point on the orca for later attention (even better if he has drones deployed and they die in the bomb blast).

Gas harvesters. If they’re BCs you’re not likely to kill them with a single bomb … you may tho. If they’re myrms, much more so than the other BC gas harvesters, they probably also have the potential to grief you bigtime (combat drones as well as the ubiquitous ECs).

Salvagers. Again not super-sexy, but killing w-space salvagers as they near the end of their salvaging run, can be pretty lucrative. Even if he has an escort, especially a battleship, you may be able to decloak and kill the noctis before the BS has even got you locked. Not recommended if he has fast frig or cruiser support.

PvE ships. A solo bomber *can* kill a w-space drake, but do not rely on being able to do so. Warrior IIs can ruin your day, and hornet ECs can let him warp away laughing at you. You’re unlikely to have a PvE drake point you … but when one does you can be in a world of hurt very quickly. You can also solo kill battleships … depending on their fit and the skill of their pilot. Sleepers can often help you here … as you watch their drones get killed by the sleepers, do the math, and realise he has no drones left and his cruise missiles (visual recce of the ship) aren’t gonna hurt you much at all. Do wait until they kill all the sleepers though, because a single sleeper frigate can ruin your day when he swaps from the ratter ship to you. A decent w-space ratter will be aligned for much of the site, and especially as he nears site completion, but the vast majority of people you see will be either stationary (Do'oh!) or orbiting something.
If you’re lucky you may be able to solo kill a w-space T3 but it’d have to be poorly fit, half maimed already, and poorly flown. Any decent T3, even PvE fit, should be able to tank your bomber until you run out of bombs and torps. You'd increase your chances by killing his cap, but it's not likely (even using a void bomb) that you'd survive long enough to achieve this.

PvP ships. In theory yes but there are not a lot of PvP ships you’re likely to meet in w-space that you’ll be well able to kill. Of course a highly expert bomber pilot (e.g. Ivaas Pirolat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLtHzH3uWis) will be able to take on, and succeed against, PvP fleets that I wouldn’t yet dream of uncloaking near.

continued ....

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-08-01 01:01:20 UTC
... continued from previous

Frigates and small ****. They are a pain to kill and can often hurt you lots. Solo killing a shuttle (ya, everyone gets desperate at times) takes forever with torpedoes, and a well flown T1 combat frigate will tear you apart.

Bombs v torps? I find myself using torps much more than bombs, but the only really useful alternative for that slot is a smart-bomb (thermal meta or faction … to kill drones) so I usually find myself carrying a bomb launcher even if I don’t use it often. Of course if you’re working w-space you want a probe launcher, either on your bomber or ‘semi-solo’ in a support ship (I always use scanner alts and don’t fit probe launcher to any of my bombers).
Unless you’re in a bomber fleet then choose the bombs and torps that your ship is bonused for. If you’re in a fleet then you usually choose the bomb-type that most ships are bonused for (or that the FC tells you to) and the torp type that your ship is bonused for.

Point v scram. A bomber is not a close-in brawler so you are usually operating in point range. A 30km point is not terribly expensive, altho probably still worth more than the rest of your ship put together, and offers you the fantastic benefit of being able to point your target while launching a bomb at him from optimal range. I have only fitted a scram to my bomber when I have been specifically trying to catch a T2 deep space transport.

DOTLAN? I operate in a very quiet eve timezone, so DOTLAN is a fantastic tool for me when I hop into another w-system with evil intent. Checking the peak times for NPC kills often helps me get an idea of when they're active ... and so decide whether to hang around or move on. Most w-space folk run their anoms / sigs in their evenings, when they have time available, but some also do their PI in the mornings (?before heading to school/work), just before DT (logging on solely to do a quick PI update), or just before their sleeper ratting session. OFC on weekends they can be doing stuff at any eve-time.

Probe scanning, system scanner, & directional scan [3]. Their power can never be overstated for w-space PvP ops. You can find any POS, relatively quickly, with DS only ... and know whether it's got bubble setup to catch unwary visitors before you warp-in to observe. You can find all anoms in a system using your SS. You do need probes to locate cosmic signatures though ... but if you use them with care (mainly choosing a time when the locals are logged off) you can do so without anyone knowing you're there. You can probe scan a site, or a ship, without being noticed ... but should not rely on being able to do so routinely as you are usually relying on a combination of good luck and their incompetence.

Bubbles. Depending on what you're carrying you can often have one or two small bubbles in your cargo. These can be nasty sneaky little beasts. Setting up a stop bubble, 300km from their POS inline with the site they're working, can let you catch their whole mining fleet ... or can delay their return in PvP ships if some pods escape the site. Most people, when spooked, warp to their POS [4].

Comments & Counters.
1. Observing their habits and practices takes time and is often a big-part of successful solo w-space PvP. I'd try to mix-up my activities but it's all-too-easy to fall into habits and patterns of behaviour.
2. I use an offgrid BM farside from the sun on my outermost-planet POS, just for this purpose. If someone is watching me leave the POS I am hoping they will think I am warping to a nearby wormhole. OFC they can always sit and camp near one of the POCOs and wait, but that is even more hit-and-miss than watching the target leave the POS ... unless you have a covops alt to watch while you wait at one of the POCOs.
3. The DS and probes are also amongst the main defences of w-space PvE folk. A deep space probe can be used very effectively to warn of new wormholes and (uncloaked) ships, while the DS can warn of hostile probes and uncloaked ships within range. "Spamming DS" is, or should be, and integral part of w-space PvE ops.
4. I use an offgrid bookmark, out of the main system axis (e.g. 1200km below), near my POS. When I do PvE stuff I'd have that BM selected in the open P&P folder and would be aligned to it whenever practicable.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#10 - 2012-08-01 01:48:30 UTC
There is a technique for killing drakes with a stealth bomber - the critical thing being with a reasonably skilled drake pilot using both light drones and precisions your pretty much not going to get that kill, but if they use t1/furys and/or you get the bomb in at the right time to nuke their drones its possible for a practised stealth bomber pilot to take down a PVE drake solo.
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#11 - 2012-08-01 18:14:54 UTC
As was stated, the whole "w-space is quiet" thingy, not true. Find a corp/ alliance that goes out and gets the pew you are looking for.

http://whkills.info/stats/?m=7&y=2012?a=corp_detail&crp_id=98

KAIRS (Transmission Lost) got just under 74% of it's kills last month in w-space. Not saying that is better or worse than any other type of kill, but w-space is not quiet and there are many many kills to be gotten. It's all about initiative, and going out and looking for fights. Some good fights do show up on your doorstep but waiting for that is going to get very frustrating and lead to excessive boredom. Big smile

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

Antonio Medichi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-08-02 03:24:57 UTC
yeah, i guess i should at least find a corp in my timezone....

anyways, is the hound the best tool for this job? i know that the purifier has more cargospace to fit an extra bomb, and that damage types change between each bomber. Seeing as my targets will be mainly indy's and salvagers, should i even worry about damage type seeing as how paper thin they are?
Omg Corn
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2012-08-03 16:01:45 UTC
Here's a nice stealth bomber in Wh blog.

http://evestealthbomber.blogspot.com/

I stopped playing a few years ago just as I finished sb training, and derping around wormholes sounds like a great way to get my feet wet again.
Renfus
Dread Fleet
Drop Imminent
#14 - 2012-08-04 12:05:54 UTC
Rroff wrote:

In the right hands the stealthbomber is quite capable, not great against T3s due to the damage application on small sigs but I know a couple of people who tear up wormhole space in them soloing BCs and BS on a regular basis.


Can a single SB do decent enough dmg to kill a tanked BC or BS before being popped him self?

Ive never used one so im wondering about the dmg output of bombs and i know you can only fit 1 bomb launcher...
also SBs are easy to kill once their targeted... so im assuming you would uncloak launch a bomb & cloak up again asap?

lol like i said ive never used them.. :)

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