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With the rebalance to T1 frigs ... what happens with T2 frigs?
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Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#1 - 2012-07-30 01:15:49 UTC
Will the new bonis be aplied to T2 versions? Punisher > Vengeance / Retribution for example?

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Pipa Porto
#2 - 2012-07-30 02:02:33 UTC
They'll probably get their own rebalance.

Who knows what that'll look like.


I got my EAF training. Bear

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-30 02:53:39 UTC
This is exactly the problem with partial rebalancing.
you fix 1 thing, make 3 others obsolete until you fix them too.
always better to take more time and do everything at once.

that said, T1 frigs are never going to be better than T2s.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Pipa Porto
#4 - 2012-07-30 03:00:44 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
This is exactly the problem with partial rebalancing.
you fix 1 thing, make 3 others obsolete until you fix them too.
always better to take more time and do everything at once.

that said, T1 frigs are never going to be better than T2s.


Trying to do everything at once only works if your Devs are smarter than the combined intelligence of all EVE players.

Doing it a bit at a time allows them to gauge the effects of the changes and learn to balance better as they go along.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-07-30 03:24:26 UTC
Not really seeing a problem here ... every race has a usable T1 frig now ... previously it was just the 1. Cant wait for the upcoming whole t1 frig lineup tuning.

But even with buffs ... none of the "new" t1 frigs makes any of the T2 ships look bad.

So wheres the problem ?
Alara IonStorm
#6 - 2012-07-30 04:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Cedo Nulli wrote:

But even with buffs ... none of the "new" t1 frigs makes any of the T2 ships look bad.

So wheres the problem ?

No one doubts the High HP / Resists and Heavy DPS of T2 Assault Frigates makes them better in a straight out slug out but the new T1 Frigates are significantly faster then their T2 counterparts.

Merlin 388m/s Base / 2814m/s MWD
Harpy 330m/s Base / 2199m/s MWD
Merlin 3.4 s/align
Harpy 3.9 s/align

Incursus 425m/s Base / 3033m/s MWD
Enyo 360m/s Base / 2380m/s MWD
Incursus 3 s/align
Enyo 4.3 s/align

When they buffed the Frigates they buffed their speed and agility significantly. They are buffing Attack Frigate and probably every other Frigates speed as well but they did not adjust Assault Frigate speed at all.

They however can't just buff them so significantly when they haven't finished live tests with the T1 models yet. A Harpy moving 2800m/s might have consequences for say Faction or Pirate Ship Balance leading to a high end frigate market crash. What is more it could lead to problems balancing the other T1 Frigates against them since they received significant Combat Buffs before an all encompassing T1 Frigate Speed Buff.

They will probably require further balance.
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-07-30 08:14:52 UTC
All T1/T2/and Faction Frigs are great and have their uses. Many are great for solo PVP, others are good for ATX, and others are good for small gang PVP. But... they are all good. Balance or no balance... pilot skill is a bigger factor.

You can kill any frigate with any frigate.

Except maybe the Bantum... that one is a ***** to fit.

I'm back!
Alara IonStorm
#8 - 2012-07-30 08:24:40 UTC
Jude Lloyd wrote:

Except maybe the Bantum... that one is a ***** to fit.

They are making that a ranged fit Rail Frigate with Naga like bonuses last I heard.
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-07-30 08:25:54 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Jude Lloyd wrote:

Except maybe the Bantum... that one is a ***** to fit.

They are making that a ranged fit Rail Frigate with Naga like bonuses last I heard.


Good, I'll start soloing in it then.

I'm back!
smokess
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-07-30 08:59:18 UTC
Unnecessary and incorrect latinisation makes me a sad panda.
Bent Barrel
#11 - 2012-07-30 10:00:26 UTC
do they need it ? I prefer the ishkur/enyo for exploration to the new incursus .... much more staying power and DPS.
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#12 - 2012-07-30 10:15:04 UTC
T1 frigs have ALWAYS been faster than there T2 variations.

Also T1 frigs will never ever ever be as powerful as an AF/Ceptor.
Niart Gunn
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-07-30 17:38:03 UTC
Gibbo3771 wrote:
T1 frigs have ALWAYS been faster than there T2 variations.

Also T1 frigs will never ever ever be as powerful as an AF/Ceptor.


Sorry to disappoint you, but the new Incursus and Merlin will shred any interceptor anyday if flown correctly, including the Taranis. They can even go toe to toe with some AFs, like the Jaguar.
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-07-30 20:30:14 UTC
Niart Gunn wrote:
Gibbo3771 wrote:
T1 frigs have ALWAYS been faster than there T2 variations.

Also T1 frigs will never ever ever be as powerful as an AF/Ceptor.


Sorry to disappoint you, but the new Incursus and Merlin will shred any interceptor anyday if flown correctly, including the Taranis. They can even go toe to toe with some AFs, like the Jaguar.


Ill say it again... its more pilot skill than anything. I can kill a ceptor with a t1 frig, I can kill a t1 frig with a ceptor.

I'm back!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#15 - 2012-07-30 20:31:24 UTC
Niart Gunn wrote:
Gibbo3771 wrote:
T1 frigs have ALWAYS been faster than there T2 variations.

Also T1 frigs will never ever ever be as powerful as an AF/Ceptor.


Sorry to disappoint you, but the new Incursus and Merlin will shred any interceptor anyday if flown correctly, including the Taranis. They can even go toe to toe with some AFs, like the Jaguar.


lulz.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#16 - 2012-07-31 03:09:36 UTC
I belive some of you got me wrong.

I NEVER had any fear T1 Frigs might be more powerfull then T2!

I just like to know, if CCP plan to convert the new bonis OR if they just start to handle T2 ships independend from T1 (which would be absolut fine for me!).

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-31 06:22:16 UTC
Niart Gunn wrote:
Gibbo3771 wrote:
T1 frigs have ALWAYS been faster than there T2 variations.

Also T1 frigs will never ever ever be as powerful as an AF/Ceptor.


if flown correctly


You could have stopped right there...
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-07-31 07:10:32 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
I belive some of you got me wrong.

I NEVER had any fear T1 Frigs might be more powerfull then T2!

I just like to know, if CCP plan to convert the new bonis OR if they just start to handle T2 ships independend from T1 (which would be absolut fine for me!).


I for one would prefer at least the Blarpy to stay as it is. Both range bonuses combined = optimal Blaster range outside any but the largest officer smartbombs, which in my book is cool as hell :D

I do have to admit, though, the new (is it still considered new? :p) Merlin is awesome for its cost. :D
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#19 - 2012-07-31 12:31:31 UTC
smokess wrote:
Unnecessary and incorrect latinisation makes me a sad panda.

QFT

Not only would the normal english plural be bonuses in the same way as we don't refer to people's ani...

As I understand it the latin root for bonus would be bonum which should pluralise as bona (in the same way as media is the plural of medium) and so boni would be the wrong suffix anyway...
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-07-31 22:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Will the new bonis be aplied to T2 versions....?




Who are these Boni's that you speak of? Are they the ship's crews?


As far as the bonuses go I think the T1 frig buffs are fair. Having better DPS makes them worth using. Just look at how many were in this year's Alliance Tournament. Even Punishers. T1 frigs will still be squishy but at least now they can be useful while they last.

The benefit of T2 frigs is in their tank and extra bonuses like tracking and range. Buffing their already considerable damage would take them out of frig territory and firmly into cruiserland. No need I say. And I love my frigates.
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