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Improve the Hulk Please!
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Axe Coldon
#1 - 2012-07-28 08:21:51 UTC
Why can't the Hulks get some love? Unless they are making crystals smaller, 350 isnt' going cut it. currently when Null mining I carry a full set, . with an m3 of 350 we will only be able to carry 4 sets. every 4 rock types we have to run back to the pos?

The tank is still super weak ore hold sucks. and this is the biggest most expensive exhumer in the universe? I mean come on. How does that make sense?

The hulk should have the most tank, the biggest cargo, most output.

only good thing will be hulks will get super cheap cause no one will fly them anymore. Skiffs and Macks will rule. Awesome tank, huge ore hold, decent mining output.

IF this was real life, the hulk manufacturer would go bankrupt. no one would buy them. The new changes to the skiffs and macks will make the hulk seem like a joke.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#2 - 2012-07-28 08:42:00 UTC
Gods, there's just no pleasing some people vOv...

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Dave stark
#3 - 2012-07-28 09:44:28 UTC
they did reduce the crystals; at the same time they reduced the cargo bay so the problem they were trying to fix wasn't really fixed.

it isn't meant to be some ore carrying behemoth, that's the mackinaw's purpose. if you want ore space grab a mackinaw. all that space and cost went in to increasing it's yield not it's cargo space.

the hulk shouldn't have the best of all 3 at all, biomass yourself.

no, people who want to make money will still fly a hulk in 0.0 because a hulk is capable of tanking belt rats if you put the effort in and it'll out mine all the other ships.

if this was real life i'd be in a bar with a 3 titted hooker cracking jokes about the film total recall.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#4 - 2012-07-28 17:38:49 UTC
learn the new mining ship roles you twunt.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#5 - 2012-07-28 18:56:02 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:


IF this was real life, the hulk manufacturer would go bankrupt. no one would buy them. The new changes to the skiffs and macks will make the hulk seem like a joke.


I know this is only tangentially relevant to the argument at hand here, but did you notice that ORE manufactures all of the exhumers? All of them?

Even then, you are completely missing the point of their role changes here. The Hulk has the best mining rate, the Mackinaw has the best ore hold and the Skiff is incredibly tanky. Hulks will be very useful in coordinated supported teams, much like how they seem to be used now, to my knowledge (I'm not actually a miner so take anything I say with a grain of salt).

What you're proposing essentially is a throwback to the tier system, in which the hulk did have the best of all possible things going for it.

Nobody really used the other two for anything, especially the Skiff.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#6 - 2012-07-28 19:00:44 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:
Why can't the Hulks get some love? Unless they are making crystals smaller, 350 isnt' going cut it. currently when Null mining I carry a full set, . with an m3 of 350 we will only be able to carry 4 sets. every 4 rock types we have to run back to the pos?

The tank is still super weak ore hold sucks. and this is the biggest most expensive exhumer in the universe? I mean come on. How does that make sense?

The hulk should have the most tank, the biggest cargo, most output.

only good thing will be hulks will get super cheap cause no one will fly them anymore. Skiffs and Macks will rule. Awesome tank, huge ore hold, decent mining output.

IF this was real life, the hulk manufacturer would go bankrupt. no one would buy them. The new changes to the skiffs and macks will make the hulk seem like a joke.


go get a corvetor...

hulk is a nono for solo play...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Dave stark
#7 - 2012-07-28 19:30:02 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Axe Coldon wrote:
Why can't the Hulks get some love? Unless they are making crystals smaller, 350 isnt' going cut it. currently when Null mining I carry a full set, . with an m3 of 350 we will only be able to carry 4 sets. every 4 rock types we have to run back to the pos?

The tank is still super weak ore hold sucks. and this is the biggest most expensive exhumer in the universe? I mean come on. How does that make sense?

The hulk should have the most tank, the biggest cargo, most output.

only good thing will be hulks will get super cheap cause no one will fly them anymore. Skiffs and Macks will rule. Awesome tank, huge ore hold, decent mining output.

IF this was real life, the hulk manufacturer would go bankrupt. no one would buy them. The new changes to the skiffs and macks will make the hulk seem like a joke.


go get a corvetor...

hulk is a nono for solo play...


and how does buying the t1 variant solve anything?
Unit757
North Point
#8 - 2012-07-28 19:35:52 UTC
Not sure if serious....
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#9 - 2012-07-28 19:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
MeBiatch wrote:
Axe Coldon wrote:
Why can't the Hulks get some love? Unless they are making crystals smaller, 350 isnt' going cut it. currently when Null mining I carry a full set, . with an m3 of 350 we will only be able to carry 4 sets. every 4 rock types we have to run back to the pos?

The tank is still super weak ore hold sucks. and this is the biggest most expensive exhumer in the universe? I mean come on. How does that make sense?

The hulk should have the most tank, the biggest cargo, most output.

only good thing will be hulks will get super cheap cause no one will fly them anymore. Skiffs and Macks will rule. Awesome tank, huge ore hold, decent mining output.

IF this was real life, the hulk manufacturer would go bankrupt. no one would buy them. The new changes to the skiffs and macks will make the hulk seem like a joke.


go get a Retriever

hulk is a nono for solo play...


Fixed, but also, truth.

Post-patch Retri can't be profitably solo-ganked, and with MSE + resist rigs + DCU II + aggressive drones should survive a "proper" gank (Because "gank" originally = GANg Kill) if the pilot's even awake.

Proof:

(Testing on SiSi against my manufacturing/industry alt -- that is with a Small Shield Extender in the mid-slot, by the way, although max-max skill ArtyToro with T II Arty and Quake will finish it--not the MSE version, though)

Standard lowish-skill Tornado Urp-splosion fit (with not so cheap meta 4 guns, and also very-expensive-on-TQ slot 9 and 10 hardwirings. Large Proj Turret skill at 3, BC skill at 4, Turret Control "Improved" certificate)

Noooo Alpha fo' you! One month!

Retriever Fit (Told you it was just an SSE II).

Covetor fit, tanked with named MSE.

This can still be two-shotted with the aforesaid/fitted as shown lowish skill Toro, though.

Which is fine, as you're supposed to use these in at least a small group, where it's presumed someone will be paying attention, no?

E:

Linky-fail should fail less now.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-07-28 20:22:41 UTC
We are swtiching from tier to roles.

Now you will choose between Skiff, mack and Hulk depending on the situation. instead of working way through them.

With new rigs you can now mine Ice just like you did in the Mack!
If goons are doing their ice interdiction you will awant tow switch to a Skiff in high sec cut mining down by 25% but you have a real big HP buffer tank.

If you have not hauler then you may want to use the mack and just step away from the key board every 45 mins

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Dave stark
#11 - 2012-07-28 20:34:18 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Axe Coldon wrote:
Why can't the Hulks get some love? Unless they are making crystals smaller, 350 isnt' going cut it. currently when Null mining I carry a full set, . with an m3 of 350 we will only be able to carry 4 sets. every 4 rock types we have to run back to the pos?

The tank is still super weak ore hold sucks. and this is the biggest most expensive exhumer in the universe? I mean come on. How does that make sense?

The hulk should have the most tank, the biggest cargo, most output.

only good thing will be hulks will get super cheap cause no one will fly them anymore. Skiffs and Macks will rule. Awesome tank, huge ore hold, decent mining output.

IF this was real life, the hulk manufacturer would go bankrupt. no one would buy them. The new changes to the skiffs and macks will make the hulk seem like a joke.


go get a Retriever

hulk is a nono for solo play...


Fixed, but also, truth.

Post-patch Retri can't be profitably solo-ganked, and with MSE + resist rigs + DCU II + aggressive drones should survive a "proper" gank (Because "gank" originally = GANg Kill) if the pilot's even awake.

Proof:

(Testing on SiSi against my manufacturing/industry alt -- that is with a Small Shield Extender in the mid-slot, by the way, although max-max skill ArtyToro with T II Arty and Quake will finish it--not the MSE version, though)

Standard lowish-skill Tornado Urp-splosion fit (with not so cheap meta 4 guns, and also very-expensive-on-TQ slot 9 and 10 hardwirings. Large Proj Turret skill at 3, BC skill at 4, Turret Control "Improved" certificate)

Noooo Alpha fo' you! One month!

Retriever Fit (Told you it was just an SSE II).

Covetor fit, tanked with named MSE.

This can still be two-shotted with the aforesaid/fitted as shown lowish skill Toro, though.

Which is fine, as you're supposed to use these in at least a small group, where it's presumed someone will be paying attention, no?

E:

Linky-fail should fail less now.


if you're willing to give up those 2 mlus, t2 bulkheads will stop that ret getting ganked. you'll get 33k ehp out of a ret on sisi with dc2 bulkheads and some thing else... saw a screenshot of it in one of the general discussion threads.
Axe Coldon
#12 - 2012-07-29 00:36:49 UTC
well you all don't mine. Real miners would like to see a better hulk.

I am not solo. lol . Just saying the hulks has lots of draw backs and nothing is done for it.

Likely I will switch to one of the uber tanking smaller ship. like Skiff or Mack. I like the skiff. it goes faster, warps fast, aligns faster. and it can actually hold (almost) a full set of crystals.

because of lack of space in the new fit would run the hulk with t1.s perfect skills, prefect rorq and 5% implant is 166k per hour.

The skiff, only has 1 laser and room for t2.s it can do 153k per hour. much larger cargo hold. and I can easily get a 74k buffer tank on it. (2 med core def field extenders, 2 invulns, EM ward Thermic dissapation. ). the hulk is weak by comparison. and only does 13k per hour more in this comparison.

and even though skiffs are a rip off, they are still cheap to make. 56mil atm.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Tassian Marrix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-07-29 02:53:11 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:
well you all don't mine. Real miners would like to see a better hulk.

I am not solo. lol . Just saying the hulks has lots of draw backs and nothing is done for it.

Likely I will switch to one of the uber tanking smaller ship. like Skiff or Mack. I like the skiff. it goes faster, warps fast, aligns faster. and it can actually hold (almost) a full set of crystals.

because of lack of space in the new fit would run the hulk with t1.s perfect skills, prefect rorq and 5% implant is 166k per hour.

The skiff, only has 1 laser and room for t2.s it can do 153k per hour. much larger cargo hold. and I can easily get a 74k buffer tank on it. (2 med core def field extenders, 2 invulns, EM ward Thermic dissapation. ). the hulk is weak by comparison. and only does 13k per hour more in this comparison.

and even though skiffs are a rip off, they are still cheap to make. 56mil atm.



A "real miner" would understand that a hulk can still bring in the most m3 per hour. A "real miner" would also understand the new role system of mining ships. The hulk is now only king of yield and does that by a large margin (~20% over the other t2 miners). Now you actually have a choice when picking a ship to fly out to a belt.

Ohh and in Jita last night macks were going for 200m and skiffs for 175m. Hulks were still around 220m so for isk / hour those prices seem about right. I do wonder if the mack / skiff will have the production cost increased any after this.
Dave stark
#14 - 2012-07-29 07:22:18 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:
well you all don't mine. Real miners would like to see a better hulk.


wrong.
Austneal
Nero Fazione
#15 - 2012-07-29 23:14:08 UTC
Quick on-topic (sorta) question: Does the skiff still get its +2 to warp strength?
Dave stark
#16 - 2012-07-29 23:21:22 UTC
Austneal wrote:
Quick on-topic (sorta) question: Does the skiff still get its +2 to warp strength?


no.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-07-30 15:21:48 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

it isn't meant to be some ore carrying behemoth, that's the mackinaw's purpose. .


link please.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Dave stark
#18 - 2012-07-30 19:44:35 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

it isn't meant to be some ore carrying behemoth, that's the mackinaw's purpose. .


link please.


dev blog.
Bo Kantrel
GETCO
#19 - 2012-07-31 03:28:52 UTC
Austneal wrote:
Quick on-topic (sorta) question: Does the skiff still get its +2 to warp strength?



How about giving the +2 warp strength to the Hulk since it's seems to be loosing end of the nerf bat.
At least it would get something instead of loosing.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#20 - 2012-07-31 06:24:51 UTC
Axe Coldon wrote:


The hulk should have the most tank, the biggest cargo, most output.



And lighting out of the eyes, fireballs out of the dronebay

It´s (gonna be) a group mining maschine (read: orca supported)

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