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why give mining barges a ridiculous boost and not tighten restrictions on -10s in highsec?

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Charlie Jacobson
#21 - 2012-07-30 20:54:22 UTC
Think of the poor unarmed asteroids being shot at by the mean laser-hulks!

I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#22 - 2012-07-30 20:59:55 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
I would be more sorry that the victims are playing a PVP game thinking it's something else.


Since when has the most complex Elite clone in history become a PvP game?... must have slipped past my radar, that.^^


Since EVE market.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#23 - 2012-07-30 21:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cyprus Black wrote:
When a 300 million ISK ship can be killed by a 1 million ISK gank ship piloted by a new character,
…it's good design. It means that you cannot buy your way out of trouble and that application of game knowledge goes a long way and that the decision to fit every single EHP-lowering module in the game will come back to bite you.

Price is not a balancing factor.

Quote:
When someone sneezes in the general direction of a mining barge and it explodes, something is indeed wrong.
Yes. The fitting on the barge is wrong.

Quote:
When nobody mines in low and nullsec anymore because the ships are so fragile, something is indeed wrong.
When even the best officer fit exumer tank still falls prey to a solo T1 fitted cruiser, something is indeed wrong.
It sure would be. As luck would have it, neither of those are things that happen in this game.

Quote:
Yes -10 sec players that roam freely in highsec are a problem
No, they really aren't.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#24 - 2012-07-30 21:04:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Price is not a balancing factor.


Grand... wasn't that the exact reason most gankers whined about the barge changes?

... you really have to try harder with your reasoning.^^

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Uyeiu
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-07-30 21:07:24 UTC
The gates should be locked to you for systems your sec status flags you for faction navy response. No docking, no POS installation (negative sec status should figure into the standings equation), NO JUMP CLONES OR MEDICAL CLONES would be accessible in systems you can't access (maybe your med clone automatically defaults to the nearest system with sec status still open to you as soon as you get the neg sec status). It would also be fun to do the same for anyone with GCC.

That would go a long way to curbing criminal activities.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2012-07-30 21:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Shalua Rui wrote:
Grand... wasn't that the exact reason most gankers whined about the barge changes?
No. The upset was that a senior game designer was using price-balancing logic when he knows (or should know, given his position) full well that price isn't a balancing factor.

This game has shown it beyond the shadow of a doubt, which makes his statement even more facepalm-inducing.

Uyeiu wrote:
The gates should be locked to you for systems your sec status flags you for faction navy response.
Why?

Quote:
That would go a long way to curbing criminal activities.
Why should that happen?
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-07-30 21:46:52 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
I would be more sorry that the victims are playing a PVP game thinking it's something else.


Since when has the most complex Elite clone in history become a PvP game?... must have slipped past my radar, that.^^


LOL if that "slipped past your radar" it makes me wonder what else went right over your head. Like how to correctly fit a pre-changed hulk to make it almost impossible to gank.

The LULZ Boat.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-07-30 21:48:20 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Price is not a balancing factor.


Grand... wasn't that the exact reason most gankers whined about the barge changes?

... you really have to try harder with your reasoning.^^


No it wasn't and maybe you should use a little of your "reasoning" to actually make a statement that doesn't make you look like a pants-on-head Rtard.

The LULZ Boat.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#29 - 2012-07-30 21:49:55 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:
LOL if that "slipped past your radar" it makes me wonder what else went right over your head. Like how to correctly fit a pre-changed hulk to make it almost impossible to gank.


You know what? That's true... but I never got ganked, cause I didn't mine Jita. Big smile

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
clamslayer
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-07-30 21:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: clamslayer
Cyprus Black wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the fit options mining barges allow currently.
There is indeed something wrong with the fitting options for mining barges and exumers.

When a 300 million ISK ship can be killed by a 1 million ISK gank ship piloted by a new character, something is indeed wrong.
When someone sneezes in the general direction of a mining barge and it explodes, something is indeed wrong.
When nobody mines in low and nullsec anymore because the ships are so fragile, something is indeed wrong.
When even the best officer fit exumer tank still falls prey to a solo T1 fitted cruiser, something is indeed wrong.
When the last update to mining barges was the Exodus expansion, the second expansion for EvE Online that introduced them back in 2004, something is indeed wrong.

clamslayer wrote:
wtf CCP, why make ships ungankable when the real issue is freedom of -10s in high sec?
They're not ungankable. Nothing is ungankable nor will anything ever be ungankable as per CCPs design. Ganking was never intended to be a profitable profession in highsec. It's a measure players can take if they're desperate for revenge.

Know that the problem of highsec ganking has more roots than a single problem to point at. It's multiple problems that exacerbate each other. Yes -10 sec players that roam freely in highsec are a problem and yes the fragility of mining barges/exumers are also a problem. Together they cause what we currently see today.


it shouldnt cost a hundreds of millions to gank a skiff if you want to use that logic. my point is that -10s can use gates while in a ship, this is bullshit, i can understand moving your pod through high sec, but you shouldnt be able to jump your -10 thrasher pilot.

nore should you be able to launch a -10 pilot from an orca

or hop into a gank ship that is empty in a safe spot and then be able to warp right away to roid belt to gank a target.

if -10 allts couldnt do the above mentioned things, then there would be a lot less griefing of miners
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#31 - 2012-07-30 21:51:48 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:

When a 300 million ISK ship can be killed by a 1 million ISK gank ship piloted by a new character, something is indeed wrong.

When a ? Trillion ISK alliance can be disbanded by 1 character w/ a few Billion ISK in his wallet just because he has access to the red button, something is indeed wrong.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-07-30 21:53:21 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
When a 300 million ISK ship can be killed by a 1 million ISK gank ship piloted by a new character, something is indeed wrong.


yeah the problem there is that the guy in the 300 million ISK ship was AFK mining in 0.5 space in an untanked, expanded exhumer

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#33 - 2012-07-30 22:01:11 UTC
clamslayer wrote:
my point is that -10s can use gates while in a ship, this is bullshit, i can understand moving your pod through high sec, but you shouldnt be able to jump your -10 thrasher pilot.

nore should you be able to launch a -10 pilot from an orca

or hop into a gank ship that is empty in a safe spot and then be able to warp right away to roid belt to gank a target.
Why not?
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-07-30 22:04:20 UTC
clamslayer wrote:
Cyprus Black wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the fit options mining barges allow currently.
There is indeed something wrong with the fitting options for mining barges and exumers.

When a 300 million ISK ship can be killed by a 1 million ISK gank ship piloted by a new character, something is indeed wrong.
When someone sneezes in the general direction of a mining barge and it explodes, something is indeed wrong.
When nobody mines in low and nullsec anymore because the ships are so fragile, something is indeed wrong.
When even the best officer fit exumer tank still falls prey to a solo T1 fitted cruiser, something is indeed wrong.
When the last update to mining barges was the Exodus expansion, the second expansion for EvE Online that introduced them back in 2004, something is indeed wrong.

clamslayer wrote:
wtf CCP, why make ships ungankable when the real issue is freedom of -10s in high sec?
They're not ungankable. Nothing is ungankable nor will anything ever be ungankable as per CCPs design. Ganking was never intended to be a profitable profession in highsec. It's a measure players can take if they're desperate for revenge.

Know that the problem of highsec ganking has more roots than a single problem to point at. It's multiple problems that exacerbate each other. Yes -10 sec players that roam freely in highsec are a problem and yes the fragility of mining barges/exumers are also a problem. Together they cause what we currently see today.


it shouldnt cost a hundreds of millions to gank a skiff if you want to use that logic. my point is that -10s can use gates while in a ship, this is bullshit, i can understand moving your pod through high sec, but you shouldnt be able to jump your -10 thrasher pilot.

nore should you be able to launch a -10 pilot from an orca

or hop into a gank ship that is empty in a safe spot and then be able to warp right away to roid belt to gank a target.

if -10 allts couldnt do the above mentioned things, then there would be a lot less griefing of miners


So what you're saying is that if you are a -10 pilot nothing in the ENTIRE GAME should work if you are in highsec? Overkill much??

The LULZ Boat.
clamslayer
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-07-30 22:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: clamslayer
Tippia wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
my point is that -10s can use gates while in a ship, this is bullshit, i can understand moving your pod through high sec, but you shouldnt be able to jump your -10 thrasher pilot.

nore should you be able to launch a -10 pilot from an orca

or hop into a gank ship that is empty in a safe spot and then be able to warp right away to roid belt to gank a target.
Why not?



-you dont think that its a bit ridiculous that you can harbor a -10 pilot in your orca with out consequence?
-pretty obvious that gates should be restricted to positive sec status pilots
-being able to hop into a ship that has been sitting in space and literally warp to your target immediately? with all the other bullshit timers in eve there might as well be a timer to prevent this
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#36 - 2012-07-30 22:06:21 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:
No it wasn't and maybe you should use a little of your "reasoning" to actually make a statement that doesn't make you look like a pants-on-head Rtard.


Namecalling... classy... but I'll play along.

Since the barge changes where announced, there has been an uproar throughout the community stating two things:

- Mining barges shouldn't be buffed on the defense side, cause it would be harder (as in: more expensive) to gank highsec miners in great numbers.

- Mining barges shouldn't be buffed on the efficiency side, cause it would be unfair to all the "highrisk" lowsec/0.0 folk... incomewise.

ALL the complains I read had a finencial component (balancing)... or just came from b*tt hurt gankers.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
clamslayer
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-07-30 22:07:02 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
Cyprus Black wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the fit options mining barges allow currently.
There is indeed something wrong with the fitting options for mining barges and exumers.

When a 300 million ISK ship can be killed by a 1 million ISK gank ship piloted by a new character, something is indeed wrong.
When someone sneezes in the general direction of a mining barge and it explodes, something is indeed wrong.
When nobody mines in low and nullsec anymore because the ships are so fragile, something is indeed wrong.
When even the best officer fit exumer tank still falls prey to a solo T1 fitted cruiser, something is indeed wrong.
When the last update to mining barges was the Exodus expansion, the second expansion for EvE Online that introduced them back in 2004, something is indeed wrong.

clamslayer wrote:
wtf CCP, why make ships ungankable when the real issue is freedom of -10s in high sec?
They're not ungankable. Nothing is ungankable nor will anything ever be ungankable as per CCPs design. Ganking was never intended to be a profitable profession in highsec. It's a measure players can take if they're desperate for revenge.

Know that the problem of highsec ganking has more roots than a single problem to point at. It's multiple problems that exacerbate each other. Yes -10 sec players that roam freely in highsec are a problem and yes the fragility of mining barges/exumers are also a problem. Together they cause what we currently see today.


it shouldnt cost a hundreds of millions to gank a skiff if you want to use that logic. my point is that -10s can use gates while in a ship, this is bullshit, i can understand moving your pod through high sec, but you shouldnt be able to jump your -10 thrasher pilot.

nore should you be able to launch a -10 pilot from an orca

or hop into a gank ship that is empty in a safe spot and then be able to warp right away to roid belt to gank a target.

if -10 allts couldnt do the above mentioned things, then there would be a lot less griefing of miners


So what you're saying is that if you are a -10 pilot nothing in the ENTIRE GAME should work if you are in highsec? Overkill much??


are you ******* stupid? i specifically mentioned gates only
clamslayer
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-07-30 22:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: clamslayer
Shalua Rui wrote:
Garreth Vlox wrote:
No it wasn't and maybe you should use a little of your "reasoning" to actually make a statement that doesn't make you look like a pants-on-head Rtard.


Namecalling... classy... but I'll play along.

Since the barge changes where announced, there has been an uproar throughout the community stating two things:

- Mining barges shouldn't be buffed on the defense side, cause it would be harder (as in: more expensive) to gank highsec miners in great numbers.

- Mining barges shouldn't be buffed on the efficiency side, cause it would be unfair to all the "highrisk" lowsec/0.0 folk... incomewise.

ALL the complains I read had a finencial component (balancing)... or just came from b*tt hurt gankers.


so you think it should require multiple gank fitted tornados to kill a 200million isk skiff. the ratio of isk destroyed vs isk destroyed by concord is a bit ******
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#39 - 2012-07-30 22:13:35 UTC
clamslayer wrote:
so you think it should require multiple gank fitted tornados to kill a 200million isk skiff. the ratio of isk destroyed vs isk destroyed by concord is a bit ******


You ask me? From my point of view, suicide ganking is stupid and invantile behavior...

...but if people can't help the urge to do it, they should pay for it, simple as that.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#40 - 2012-07-30 22:14:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
clamslayer wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the fit options mining barges allow currently.

wtf CCP, why make ships ungankable when the real issue is freedom of -10s in high sec?

Miners are being ganked indiscriminately because:

-10 can fly around high sec in destroyers with out being stopped at gates. -10s shouldnt be able to jump a ship through gates
-10 can hope into an empty gank fitted ship in a safe spot and immediately warp to a roid belt to kill a target
-10 can be launched from a positive sec status orca

this is the problem, too much freedom for -10 players in high sec and not enough consequence for killing a target in high sec


Ah, **** it.

I'm done playing "nice" with you lot, and I consider myself at least a little bit of a carebear at heart:

Leave our sandbox, now, and feel free to...not come back.

There are no "safe-zones" in EVE, there are no "no-touch halos" around your head,

THIS.
IS.
NOT.
WoW.
(Or any of its many even worse clones/wannabes, for that matter.)

What the f is so bloody hard about this?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.