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Why are CCP redesigning Exhumers around high-sec suicide gangs?

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Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#1 - 2012-07-30 16:11:29 UTC
They were never intended to be used in high sec anyway.

I'm not concerned with the actual changes CCP are making to these ships but the thought process that goes behind it and it's ramifications for the game as a whole. CCP are catering to the casual players and in doing so are turning New Eden from a dark and consequence filled universe to that of a hand-holding nanny state.

Quote:
The Hulk is the largest craft in the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Hulk is, bar none, the most efficient mining vessel available.


Quote:
The Skiff is the smallest of the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. Skiffs are specialty vessels, designed to mine Mercoxit.


Quote:
The Mackinaw is the medium-sized version of the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Mackinaw is a specialty vessel, ideally suited for ice mining.


Clearly they were not intended for the starter systems which comprise high-sec empire.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-07-30 16:14:29 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Lady Spank wrote:
They were never intended to be used in high sec anyway.

let me guess.....

maybe it is because high-sec was never intended to be playground for the richest 0.0-sec alliance which refunds any ganking losses to its members?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Aprudena Gist
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-30 16:16:10 UTC
It also makes them a lot more useful for w-space which you do have to mine at least gas quite a bit in. But yes it was mostly because a 1m isk blaster thrasher could take out a 300m isk hulk.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#4 - 2012-07-30 16:22:07 UTC
A new gas ship could freshen up the industry but how am I supposed to roleplay a miner, out on the limits of civilised space, bashing my ship with giant wrenches to keep it going and chewing on ore, evading space pirates if my ship is all heavily tanked.

It's not meant to be a combat vessel, a Thrasher is. Hulks also have a far superior tank to a Thrasher.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
The D1ngo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-07-30 16:22:54 UTC
Do the changes preclude/hinder exhumers from operating in low/null/wh?

Does the loss of cargo space on the hulk help solo hulk miners in hi-sec or does it encourage group mining ops like those found in 0.0?

Could the redesign be based around the upcoming changes to moon goo and the need for a competent platform to obtain "spice"?
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#6 - 2012-07-30 16:24:02 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
maybe high-sec was never intended to be battlefield for the richest 0.0-sec alliance which refunds any ganking losses to its members?


I have to agree there.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#7 - 2012-07-30 16:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
Because, for some reason, a game where the community focuses on killing ships that can't shoot back is not drawing in the subscriber base they expected. Maybe they finally realized they would like you to focus on harder tasks that actually make the game... emergent.

Also, please educate me on "Hulk were never intended for HiSec" Where does it say that? Capital Ships and Titan/SuperCap construction was never intended for HiSec, as a result, they are banned in lowsec by game mechanics (ban in Hisec=true). Please show me where this was the case for Hulks? Description? Announcement? Are the restrictions broken?

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Rengerel en Distel
#8 - 2012-07-30 16:41:04 UTC
We need another option next to the Like, which is a Special Snowflake, for those who have an idea so profound, that it couldn't be stated in any of the other threads on a topic.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Hypercake Mix
#9 - 2012-07-30 16:43:50 UTC
Because T1 barges suck. And "Tiericide"
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 - 2012-07-30 16:45:37 UTC
Nice quoting. Let me join in.

Skiff wrote:

The exhumer is the second generation of mining vessels created by ORE. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, were each created to excel at a specific function, the Skiff's being durability. With that in mind, the designers could only make space to fit one mining or ice harvesting module. To mitigate the effect this would have on its mining output, they came up with a unique loading system that allows this one module to work at triple efficiency.
Exhumers are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining and Ice Harvesting modules.


Mackinaw wrote:
The exhumer is the second generation of mining vessels created by ORE. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, were each created to excel at a specific function, the Mackinaw's being storage. Although it only has space to fit two mining or ice harvesting modules, a fast loading system allows those two module to do the work of three modules.
Exhumers are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining and Ice Harvesting modules.


Hulk wrote:
The exhumer is the second generation of mining vessels created by ORE. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, were each created to excel at a specific function, the Hulk's being mining yield. The additional yield comes at a price, as the Hulk has weaker defenses and a smaller ore bay than the other exhumers.
Exhumers are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining and Ice Harvesting modules.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#11 - 2012-07-30 16:47:35 UTC
to make you post whiny **** posts, thats why.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#12 - 2012-07-30 16:49:51 UTC
Thank you for confirming the new quotes cleverly remove any reference to their original intended use in 'deep space'.

I'm still surprised that high-sec miners never actually adapted to all the suicide ganging and simply carried on getting themselves killed but I suppose that says more about society and their senses of entitlement than it does about internet spaceships.

I have never been suicide ganked even once, I don't know how other people make such big targets of themselves and then expect to have a right to complain.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
stoicfaux
#13 - 2012-07-30 16:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
CCP Goliath wrote:
Nice quoting. Let me join in.
...


Translation: We changed things. Get over it. And why aren't you posting in the pre-existing threadnaught?



edit: To be fair, I like the "not a high-sec ship" twist to justify a "new" thread. Good trolling fundamentals. Kudos to Lady Spank.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Hypercake Mix
#14 - 2012-07-30 16:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Hypercake Mix
Lady Spank wrote:
Thank you for confirming the new quotes cleverly remove any reference to their original intended use in 'deep space'.

I'm still surprised that high-sec miners never actually adapted to all the suicide ganging and simply carried on getting themselves killed but I suppose that says more about society and their senses of entitlement than it does about internet spaceships.

I have never been suicide ganked even once, I don't know how other people make such big targets of themselves and then expect to have a right to complain.

Well, not everyone is as clearly informed about current mining related trends.

Edit:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Nice quoting. Let me join in.

And they're in that same style the Tier 3 BCs were done with the bolded reference links to ORE, Mining Barge skill and Exhumer skill.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#15 - 2012-07-30 16:56:42 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Because, for some reason, a game where the community focuses on killing ships that can't shoot back is not drawing in the subscriber base they expected. Maybe they finally realized they would like you to focus on harder tasks that actually make the game... emergent.

Also, please educate me on "Hulk were never intended for HiSec" Where does it say that? Capital Ships and Titan/SuperCap construction was never intended for HiSec, as a result, they are banned in lowsec by game mechanics (ban in Hisec=true). Please show me where this was the case for Hulks? Description? Announcement? Are the restrictions broken?


I'd be willing to bet that if that was set to True for Exhumers, then people ganking Exhumers wouldn't be such a hot button topic. IDK though, the tear drought on the forums would cause some other "bane" to rear its ugly head over high-sec.

TBH, I think I'd be cooler with that than the new changes. Might be an idea to give them a 50% buff to CPU/PG and maybe a slight buff to overall EHP (like 10-25%), but only if they were banned in high-sec.

Also, AFAIK, weren't Cap/SuperCaps allowed in high-sec at one point?
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#16 - 2012-07-30 16:57:10 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Nice quoting. Let me join in.
...


Translation: We changed things. Get over it. And why aren't you posting in the pre-existing threadnaught?



edit: To be fair, I like the "not a high-sec ship" twist to justify a "new" thread. Good trolling fundamentals. Kudos to Lady Spank.


because she's special, and we should pat her on the back for her original insights which no other gankbear scrub has ever whined before.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#17 - 2012-07-30 16:57:42 UTC
Deep space is defined as any region of outer space beyond the earth and moon.

So again, how is deep space limited to nul? Deep space is pretty much anywhere in eve. If you wish to refine the definition, it would at best be any part of space outside the influence of any planet's gravitational pull. That would still fit for belts in hi, low, or nul sec.

Come on, you can troll better than this.
Deacon of Destruction
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-07-30 17:01:39 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Thank you for confirming the new quotes cleverly remove any reference to their original intended use in 'deep space'.

I'm still surprised that high-sec miners never actually adapted to all the suicide ganging and simply carried on getting themselves killed but I suppose that says more about society and their senses of entitlement than it does about internet spaceships.

I have never been suicide ganked even once, I don't know how other people make such big targets of themselves and then expect to have a right to complain.

This is where you revealed you were just trollin'. If you had been doing any ganking recently, you'd know that the majority of the miners have learned their lessons well. Easy targets are harder and harder to find. Also, some miners are using their own suicide approach and flying in retrievers and just writing down losses as the cost of doing business.

You've become boring in your old age. Go out, shoot something and STFU.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#19 - 2012-07-30 17:02:15 UTC
Denidil wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Nice quoting. Let me join in.
...


Translation: We changed things. Get over it. And why aren't you posting in the pre-existing threadnaught?



edit: To be fair, I like the "not a high-sec ship" twist to justify a "new" thread. Good trolling fundamentals. Kudos to Lady Spank.


because she's special, and we should pat her on the back for her original insights which no other gankbear scrub has ever whined before.


Feel free to point out any high sec suicide gank I have taken part in, because I don't recall ever having done so. Thanks for proving how worthless your opinion is since you are incapable of posting objectively.


Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Deep space is defined as any region of outer space beyond the earth and moon.

So again, how is deep space limited to nul? Deep space is pretty much anywhere in eve. If you wish to refine the definition, it would at best be any part of space outside the influence of any planet's gravitational pull. That would still fit for belts in hi, low, or nul sec.

Come on, you can troll better than this.


Feel free to point this out in the New Eden dictionary. Stop using old fashioned Earth definitions as they are irrelevant.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Odin Tribus
KFC Delivery Service
#20 - 2012-07-30 17:02:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Odin Tribus
Hi-sec miners never adapted to being ganked because they've all had the "greed fit". All the ones I have ganked have had no tank whatsoever yet they feel they have the right to complain.

The worst ones are the "greed fitted" AFK miners.

I do hope the barge prices will reflect the changes which would make ganking all the more worthwhile!
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