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Barge Fairy Tale

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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2201 - 2012-07-30 16:58:02 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
My only point is that those playstyles (highsec missions and incursions) shouldn't have better or comparable incomes to playstyles who incorporate lots of risk and effort, such as nullsec and wormholes.


Ok, sorry... but your aren't SERIOUSLY playing the FAIRNESS card on me now, are you? As far as I am concerned, I make the money I make by providing you with the materials to build the weapons and ships you people use to gank people like me... figurably speaking... and you are talking about even scales?

Kinda ironic.^^

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#2202 - 2012-07-30 16:58:05 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
I could be wrong, and sorry if I am, But faik the account gets banned, not the ip address. Making accounts for free is easy. and technically unlimited.


not really, if you keep getting alt accounts banned for whatever reason i'm p sure they just ban all of your other accounts too



That would be an assumption. A pretty fair one i must admit, but still an assumption. Only because of family members playing differently, would be brought into the ban hammer range could stop this from happenning.It still means that a ganker has an unlimited amount of biomassable ganking pilots at his disposal.


o7
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#2203 - 2012-07-30 16:58:20 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
And isn't this the epitome of carebearing? "I want to do all sorts of stuff but not suffer any of the consequences, in the Game Of Consequences".

How is it better than dumb miners refusing the consequences of AFK their zero tank Hulk?


i'm pretty sure more people recycle alts to keep concord in belts than people recycling good gank alts

the more you know



Fabrication. Stop.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2204 - 2012-07-30 16:59:04 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
My point is people like you should stop commenting with blatantly false ideas such as ''you can tank concord'' or ''Nullsec is fine you can rat for a billion an hour in sanctums''.


I didn't say that, did I? All I am saying is: Every playstyle has it's place in EVE... and highsec is for those who want to follow their trade (missions, mining, trading, etc.) in relative savety... you want to be a pirate or a corporate warlord? Great, go to lowsec/0.0 and get to it... I don't care.


My only point is that those playstyles (highsec missions and incursions) shouldn't have better or comparable incomes to playstyles who incorporate lots of risk and effort, such as nullsec and wormholes.


I have never understood this myself (find my old threads about the need to nerf L4 income on the mission forums...).

But I have to say this now:

- Mining is pure demand vs offer, a non ISK faucet exactly like Technetium, people pay what they believe their work is worth for.
So mining shouldn't be nerfed.

- L4 have finally been nerfed enough times that they are OK. Only L4 blitzing should receive a sledgehammer.

- Hi sec anoms net stuff that is not a ISK faucet, so once again we are in the "demand vs offer" domain.

- Trading is once again, demand vs offer and it's competitive PvP (with potential losses well outstripping ships PvP. I know, I put 30B at stake on the markets, not some puny 200M).

Incursions have been nerfed enough that now I see them routinely empty.


Nullsec on the other side is not exactly "poor". What's poor is the lack of minimal "comfort" features like decent industry slots, decently close clone stations, decent refining. Plus life just sucks (had to do it for months) if your corp lives at a POS with no station in system.

I have a feeling that nullsec could use a moderate boost to individual income but an huge boost to what I wrote in the paragraph above.

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Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2205 - 2012-07-30 16:59:45 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Skippermonkey wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Why do gankers have LOLhisecgankalts?

Because i like flying around hisec without being shot at by everything


And isn't this the epitome of carebearing? "I want to do all sorts of stuff but not suffer any of the consequences, in the Game Of Consequences".

Not at all, I am well aware of the consequences, and i deal with them on the character that i earn them on.

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2206 - 2012-07-30 17:00:16 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:


What, do you want every single one of us to have to clock 40 hours of work a week just to keep the privilege that is ratting for 40mil/hr in unsafe space? Of course the directors and logistics spergs do harder work than the line members. The point is that NPC null and highsec alliances don't even need anyone to do any of that work and don't need to foot 40 bil a month for sov bills because THEY DON'T EXIST.


They don't reap the benefits either. Before joining a sov alliance, our 0.0 POSes did not spew billions of moon goo worth a month. Before joining a sov alliance we had no station in all but 1 system. Before joining a sov alliance we were in some lolbadtruesec. Before joining a sov alliance we did not have Titan bridges and similar. It was like "wait 1 week till next JF runs to take stuff to low sec or come by foot (passing in half of Goon space BTW).

Risk and reweard. You only show your risks and don't show your rewards while downplaying the others'. I have been in 1 NPC nullsec corp and 2 sov alliances (my other alts were in Initiative alliance) and I kind of know how it goes.


hi

Lowsec and NPC null also have moons to mine.
Moon mining is not linked to having sov.
The good moons (technetium) are going to be nerfed to crap on august 8.



Yes we had Cobalt and atmospheric gases. That made us rich.

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Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2207 - 2012-07-30 17:00:50 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
The good moons (technetium) are going to be nerfed to crap on august 8.


Not to divert this ~wonderful~ thread off track, but I thought the whole moon mining aspect was something The Mittani wanted to have "fixed" since he and apparently many others saw as broken...? Add how many posts over time from members of Goons claiming to have billions upon billions of ISK freely lying around, "good moons ... nerfed to crap" should not be an issue, yes?
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2208 - 2012-07-30 17:01:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


I have a feeling that nullsec could use a moderate boost to individual income but an huge boost to what I wrote in the paragraph above.


Then, we basically agree.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2209 - 2012-07-30 17:01:47 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
I could be wrong, and sorry if I am, But faik the account gets banned, not the ip address. Making accounts for free is easy. and technically unlimited.


not really, if you keep getting alt accounts banned for whatever reason i'm p sure they just ban all of your other accounts too


Mostly if not only for botting and / or RMTing.

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Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2210 - 2012-07-30 17:02:14 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
The good moons (technetium) are going to be nerfed to crap on august 8.


Not to divert this ~wonderful~ thread off track, but I thought the whole moon mining aspect was something The Mittani wanted to have "fixed" since he and apparently many others saw as broken...? Add how many posts over time from members of Goons claiming to have billions upon billions of ISK freely lying around, "good moons ... nerfed to crap" should not be an issue, yes?


Yes, it is something we wanted, but CCP has just taken it out without replacing it with another form of (weaker) taxable income. Thus, it sucks. An optimized alliance today would simply not have sov.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2211 - 2012-07-30 17:03:02 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
And isn't this the epitome of carebearing? "I want to do all sorts of stuff but not suffer any of the consequences, in the Game Of Consequences".

How is it better than dumb miners refusing the consequences of AFK their zero tank Hulk?


i'm pretty sure more people recycle alts to keep concord in belts than people recycling good gank alts

the more you know


No, because (since I have seen it done a lot), you shoot 1 ship, get a tiny sec loss and then have a full day to recover it by just killing the rats hitting on the mining ship.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2212 - 2012-07-30 17:05:27 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Skippermonkey wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Why do gankers have LOLhisecgankalts?

Because i like flying around hisec without being shot at by everything


And isn't this the epitome of carebearing? "I want to do all sorts of stuff but not suffer any of the consequences, in the Game Of Consequences".

Not at all, I am well aware of the consequences, and i deal with them on the character that i earn them on.


What consequence do you endure by pod warping from station to Orca, reshipping, going in blowing and insta warping to safe again?

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2213 - 2012-07-30 17:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


I have a feeling that nullsec could use a moderate boost to individual income but an huge boost to what I wrote in the paragraph above.


Then, we basically agree.


Sure, if you just paused a second the parade about how though is to be in sov nullsec and tralala and would sit to a table and talk about the dry topics.


Werst Dendenahzees wrote:

Yes, it is something we wanted, but CCP has just taken it out without replacing it with another form of (weaker) taxable income. Thus, it sucks. An optimized alliance today would simply not have sov.


Isn't it a bit too early to get out doom prophecies? We don't even know the final coefficients and you know that Alchemy won't kill it (Alchemy is engineered to be worth 0 below a certain minimum thresold anyway).

Edit: sure, gone are the days of 200k a piece, but then 200k a piece was the very reason why CCP got out the nerf hammer.
It used to be <= 100k and no one thought it was worthless.

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Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2214 - 2012-07-30 17:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Skippermonkey
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
What consequence do you endure by pod warping from station to Orca, reshipping, going in blowing and insta warping to safe again?
Well, if thats how you think its done, why dont you scan down the POD in space and come kill me?

Negative ten toons are flashy red and able to be shot at by anyone, thats the consequence

jeez, im learning all sorts today, lol

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2215 - 2012-07-30 17:11:35 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


I have a feeling that nullsec could use a moderate boost to individual income but an huge boost to what I wrote in the paragraph above.


Then, we basically agree.


Sure, if you just paused a second the parade about how though is to be in sov nullsec and tralala and would sit to a table and talk about the dry topics.


Werst Dendenahzees wrote:

Yes, it is something we wanted, but CCP has just taken it out without replacing it with another form of (weaker) taxable income. Thus, it sucks. An optimized alliance today would simply not have sov.


Isn't it a bit too early to get out doom prophecies? We don't even know the final coefficients and you know that Alchemy won't kill it (Alchemy is engineered to be worth 0 below a certain minimum thresold anyway).


See Weaselior's calculator
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqcVTxvQXiL3dHJXYXcwejAtemZ2MlVxQkhWSnVfRGc#gid=0
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2216 - 2012-07-30 17:12:47 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
What consequence do you endure by pod warping from station to Orca, reshipping, going in blowing and insta warping to safe again?
Well, if thats how you think its done, why dont you scan down the POD in space and come kill me?

Negative ten toons are flashy red and able to be shot at by anyone, thats the consequence

deal with it


If they are in a ship. Shooting the pod isn't allowed.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2217 - 2012-07-30 17:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Skippermonkey
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Skippermonkey wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
What consequence do you endure by pod warping from station to Orca, reshipping, going in blowing and insta warping to safe again?
Well, if thats how you think its done, why dont you scan down the POD in space and come kill me?

Negative ten toons are flashy red and able to be shot at by anyone, thats the consequence

deal with it


If they are in a ship. Shooting the pod isn't allowed.


-10's in a pod can be shot on sight

ok, moving on, lol

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2218 - 2012-07-30 17:16:26 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Yes, it is something we wanted, but CCP has just taken it out without replacing it with another form of (weaker) taxable income. Thus, it sucks. An optimized alliance today would simply not have sov.


Ahhh, so CCP basically half-assed it again...?

I saw the notices of the changes, but since I am not directly involved in moon mining, I did not keep up-to-date over the changes. Initially, it seemed (to me) that you quote was a complaint from loosing billions upon billions in revenue and only gaining millions upon billions. But if the whole aspect was gutted without anything suitable as a replacement - something a bit more "balanced" over the gaming universe, then I can understand the frustration.

My apologies if you might have taken offense at my words.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2219 - 2012-07-30 17:18:15 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
What consequence do you endure by pod warping from station to Orca, reshipping, going in blowing and insta warping to safe again?
Well, if thats how you think its done, why dont you scan down the POD in space and come kill me?

Negative ten toons are flashy red and able to be shot at by anyone, thats the consequence

deal with it


I don't think you sit a capsule in the same spot forever.
Also, the flashy red is cute but for personal experience (deal with it indeed), you'll land at 100km off my ship to kill somebody, it's not so easy to catch you in the handful of seconds before you are done.

Even if you land at optimal, it's not easy, it involves SEBO and to pay SUPER attention for hours (it's not like you put a sign with your activity hours). It's easy to lose attention after 2 hours of nothing, it's not like real combat where you know stuff happens soon.

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Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2220 - 2012-07-30 17:20:19 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
it's not like real combat where you know stuff happens soon.

You dont seem to be dealing with it very well

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION