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ASB is BULL.

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Freezehunter
#121 - 2012-07-29 18:32:17 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
Keep it on topic. Thank you.


OP Just claimed that the topic is Trolling, not his whining about SISI PvP.

Gas thread, Ban OP.


Freezehunter wrote:
By the way, you all got trolled, ASB is just fine.


Bringing you quality trolling since 1998.
You're welcome.


FYP


I got you all riled up, arguing with each other about some guy losing a Bhaalgorn to a Rattlesnake on the test server.

You got trolled, trust me.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Pipa Porto
#122 - 2012-07-29 18:39:54 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
I got you all riled up, arguing with each other about some guy losing a Bhaalgorn to a Rattlesnake on the test server.

You got trolled, trust me.


Looks more like you got butthurt about losing a Bhaal to a Rattler on SISI and decided to try to save face by going
"I TROLLL UUUU.... hurrrrr"

Either way, 0/10 troll.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#123 - 2012-07-29 19:06:53 UTC
Troll or not, ASB is most definitely unbalanced.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#124 - 2012-07-29 19:26:22 UTC
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Troll or not, ASB is most definitely unbalanced.
Lose the minute long reload timer, lower the boost amount to be inline with regular SBs, problem solved.
Freezehunter
#125 - 2012-07-29 19:26:25 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
I got you all riled up, arguing with each other about some guy losing a Bhaalgorn to a Rattlesnake on the test server.

You got trolled, trust me.


Looks more like you got butthurt about losing a Bhaal to a Rattler on SISI and decided to try to save face by going
"I TROLLL UUUU.... hurrrrr"

Either way, 0/10 troll.


Whatever you say bro.

As if anyone gets angry when they lose **** on SiSi, AS IF.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Kraazyfuu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2012-07-29 19:28:19 UTC
So shield tankers got the very powerful ASB while armor tankers got that terribad Reactive Armor Hardener. Wheres the AAB?
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2012-07-29 19:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
The comparison between an ASB and shield extender is a bit flawed, considering that successfully reloading an ASB during a fight is a real possibility. Then the ASB is suddenly twice as good in terms of HP.

Also these comparisons must include things like shield boost amplifiers, ship bonuses that increase the boost amount, combat boosters and crystal implants. These are part of the equation as well.
Pipa Porto
#128 - 2012-07-29 19:46:24 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The comparison between an ASB and shield extender is a bit flawed, considering that successfully reloading an ASB during a fight is a real possibility. Then the ASB is suddenly twice as good in terms of HP.


If you can't kill an ASB in a full minute without reps, you have other problems.

If you can't survive the gimped DPS of a Dual ASB ship for long enough to run its charges down, you have other problems.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#129 - 2012-07-29 19:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bill Serkoff2
Pipa Porto wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The comparison between an ASB and shield extender is a bit flawed, considering that successfully reloading an ASB during a fight is a real possibility. Then the ASB is suddenly twice as good in terms of HP.


If you can't kill an ASB in a full minute without reps, you have other problems.

If you can't survive the gimped DPS of a Dual ASB ship for long enough to run its charges down, you have other problems.

What exactly about a dual-ASB ship's DPS is any lower than something -non? As far as I know, ASB modules have absolutely no effect on low slots, which are the slots that increase DPS. An ASB ship doesn't sacrifice any DPS for their overblown tank.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Pipa Porto
#130 - 2012-07-29 19:56:53 UTC
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The comparison between an ASB and shield extender is a bit flawed, considering that successfully reloading an ASB during a fight is a real possibility. Then the ASB is suddenly twice as good in terms of HP.


If you can't kill an ASB in a full minute without reps, you have other problems.

If you can't survive the gimped DPS of a Dual ASB ship for long enough to run its charges down, you have other problems.

What exactly about a dual-ASB ship's DPS is any lower than something -non? As far as I know, ASB modules have absolutely no effect on low slots, which are the slots that increase DPS. An ASB ship doesn't sacrifice any DPS for their overblown tank.


Try fitting up a Dual X-L ASB Drake. See what kind of fit you can put into their Lows.

ASBs have pretty stiff fitting requirements, and shoehorning them onto your fit requires you to give up a lot.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#131 - 2012-07-29 20:16:18 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The comparison between an ASB and shield extender is a bit flawed, considering that successfully reloading an ASB during a fight is a real possibility. Then the ASB is suddenly twice as good in terms of HP.


If you can't kill an ASB in a full minute without reps, you have other problems.

If you can't survive the gimped DPS of a Dual ASB ship for long enough to run its charges down, you have other problems.

What exactly about a dual-ASB ship's DPS is any lower than something -non? As far as I know, ASB modules have absolutely no effect on low slots, which are the slots that increase DPS. An ASB ship doesn't sacrifice any DPS for their overblown tank.


Try fitting up a Dual X-L ASB Drake. See what kind of fit you can put into their Lows.

ASBs have pretty stiff fitting requirements, and shoehorning them onto your fit requires you to give up a lot.

That's kinda' because fitting two absurdly oversized boosters to a ship will pretty much always be a problem.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Freezehunter
#132 - 2012-07-29 21:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Pipa Porto wrote:
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The comparison between an ASB and shield extender is a bit flawed, considering that successfully reloading an ASB during a fight is a real possibility. Then the ASB is suddenly twice as good in terms of HP.


If you can't kill an ASB in a full minute without reps, you have other problems.

If you can't survive the gimped DPS of a Dual ASB ship for long enough to run its charges down, you have other problems.

What exactly about a dual-ASB ship's DPS is any lower than something -non? As far as I know, ASB modules have absolutely no effect on low slots, which are the slots that increase DPS. An ASB ship doesn't sacrifice any DPS for their overblown tank.


Try fitting up a Dual X-L ASB Drake. See what kind of fit you can put into their Lows.

ASBs have pretty stiff fitting requirements, and shoehorning them onto your fit requires you to give up a lot.


Yes, because a Battlecruiser is SUPPOSED to be able to fit two battleship sized shield boosters and still have more than enough PG and CPU to fit other useful ****.

Apparently Pipa has made it a personal habit to talk out of his ass.

If you honestly think that you are a moron.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Pipa Porto
#133 - 2012-07-29 21:30:17 UTC
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
The comparison between an ASB and shield extender is a bit flawed, considering that successfully reloading an ASB during a fight is a real possibility. Then the ASB is suddenly twice as good in terms of HP.


If you can't kill an ASB in a full minute without reps, you have other problems.

If you can't survive the gimped DPS of a Dual ASB ship for long enough to run its charges down, you have other problems.

What exactly about a dual-ASB ship's DPS is any lower than something -non? As far as I know, ASB modules have absolutely no effect on low slots, which are the slots that increase DPS. An ASB ship doesn't sacrifice any DPS for their overblown tank.


Try fitting up a Dual X-L ASB Drake. See what kind of fit you can put into their Lows.

ASBs have pretty stiff fitting requirements, and shoehorning them onto your fit requires you to give up a lot.

That's kinda' because fitting two absurdly oversized boosters to a ship will pretty much always be a problem.


Yeah. If you fit 1 X-L ASB, you die on the Reload. You fit 2 L ASBs, you die while you're repping.

The fitting requirements cause similar problems on Battleships.

1 X-L ASB, You die on the Reload. 2 X-L ASBs, the rest of your fit is badly gimped (and you'll run out of Cargo pretty fast). 2 L ASBs, you die while repping.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#134 - 2012-07-29 21:33:33 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


Try fitting up a Dual X-L ASB Drake. See what kind of fit you can put into their Lows.

ASBs have pretty stiff fitting requirements, and shoehorning them onto your fit requires you to give up a lot.


Yes, because a Battlecruiser is SUPPOSED to be able to fit two battleship sized shield boosters and still have more than enough PG and CPU to fit other useful ****.

Apparently Pipa has made it a personal habit to talk out of his ass.

If you honestly think that you are a moron.


I didn't say that. The guy I responded to was saying that the Dual ASB tank (only viable on ships larger than cruisers with an X-L ASB) didn't gimp your fit. It does. Massively.

1 X-L ASB, you tank till the reload and then die. 2 X-L ASBs, you have a gimped fit, but tank 'till your cargo bay is empty. 2 L ASBs, you just die.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Freezehunter
#135 - 2012-07-29 21:42:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


Try fitting up a Dual X-L ASB Drake. See what kind of fit you can put into their Lows.

ASBs have pretty stiff fitting requirements, and shoehorning them onto your fit requires you to give up a lot.


Yes, because a Battlecruiser is SUPPOSED to be able to fit two battleship sized shield boosters and still have more than enough PG and CPU to fit other useful ****.

Apparently Pipa has made it a personal habit to talk out of his ass.

If you honestly think that you are a moron.


I didn't say that. The guy I responded to was saying that the Dual ASB tank (only viable on ships larger than cruisers with an X-L ASB) didn't gimp your fit. It does. Massively.

1 X-L ASB, you tank till the reload and then die. 2 X-L ASBs, you have a gimped fit, but tank 'till your cargo bay is empty. 2 L ASBs, you just die.


Have you ever considered that the ASB was never intended to be the be all end all module of ultimate invulnerability and it was actually supposed to be, erm... what's that word? Oh yes, BALANCED?

Reminds me of the Invulnerability Field module nerf. MUCH NEEDED and it eventually happened because resistances were becoming ridiculous on shields.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Pipa Porto
#136 - 2012-07-29 21:52:54 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

I didn't say that. The guy I responded to was saying that the Dual ASB tank (only viable on ships larger than cruisers with an X-L ASB) didn't gimp your fit. It does. Massively.

1 X-L ASB, you tank till the reload and then die. 2 X-L ASBs, you have a gimped fit, but tank 'till your cargo bay is empty. 2 L ASBs, you just die.


Have you ever considered that the ASB was never intended to be the be all end all module of ultimate invulnerability and it was actually supposed to be, erm... what's that word? Oh yes, BALANCED?

Reminds me of the Invulnerability Field module nerf. MUCH NEEDED and it eventually happened because resistances were becoming ridiculous on shields.


I'm saying it is balanced. Pretty well even.

1 X-L ASB and you die on the reload. 2 X-L ASBs and you die when your cargo runs out (and you have a gimped fit). 2 L ASBs and you just get your tank broken. Where's the "ultimate invulnerability"?

It's not the "be all end all module of ultimate invulnerability," it's an odd module that in certain situations can be very useful. In many other situations, a ship fitted with it it (or two of it) will DIAF.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#137 - 2012-07-29 22:27:00 UTC
If you can't beat em, join em.. shield tank you Bhal with a ASB.. problem solved Twisted

... What next ??
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2012-07-30 01:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Eternal Error wrote:
Another ASB thread.

Yes they're OP. If you don't think they are OP, you are bad at math and/or bad at eve and/or love power creep for no reason.

Balance the original active tanking modules, then worry about creating new modules.


This. Exactly this.

If people dont think they are OP, go watch the first few rounds of the latest Alliance Tournament. Ships with ASBs were often tanking the entire other team's 5+ ppl dps until the cap charges ran out. That is absolutely silly. They need to be nerfed and quickly.

CCP is great at responding to some issues, but I cant for the life of me fathom why it takes them so long on something like this. Nevermind the comparison with the new armor mod that they were introduced with (there is no comparison). I just dont get it.

Now - I suppose it is possible that CCP is planning on increasing ship bonuses for armor tanking ships (from 7.5%/level to 10%/level, like on the Incursus) to balance the tanking methods out a bit. But I will believe it when I see it.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Pipa Porto
#139 - 2012-07-30 01:22:57 UTC
Hrett wrote:
If people dont think they are OP, go watch the first few rounds of the latest Alliance Tournament. Ships with ASBs were often tanking the entire other team's 5+ ppl dps until the cap charges ran out. That is absolutely silly. They need to be nerfed and quickly.


ASB's are essentially a Buffer Tank module that's only effective in small engagements.

A Buffer tank can tank an unlimited amount of DPS until its buffer runs out. The ASB can tank a limited (but large) amount of DPS until its charges run out.

The 6 man format is basically designed to showcase the ASB by limiting available DPS on the field.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2012-07-30 01:50:03 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Hrett wrote:
If people dont think they are OP, go watch the first few rounds of the latest Alliance Tournament. Ships with ASBs were often tanking the entire other team's 5+ ppl dps until the cap charges ran out. That is absolutely silly. They need to be nerfed and quickly.


ASB's are essentially a Buffer Tank module that's only effective in small engagements.

A Buffer tank can tank an unlimited amount of DPS until its buffer runs out. The ASB can tank a limited (but large) amount of DPS until its charges run out.

The 6 man format is basically designed to showcase the ASB by limiting available DPS on the field.


They do it in the 12 man too. They aren't used as often then which is why I suggested the early rounds, but they tank the DPS portion of the 12 man teams too. I don't do math, but how many raw hp can an XL ASB boost with a full cap booster load? I would bet It's an obscene amount - probably the equal of quite a few LSE....

It takes an armor tank quite a bit of time to rep the amount of 1 1600RTP. How long does it take for an ASB to boost the amount of an LSE? How many LSE equivilants can it boost before it runs out of charges? I don't know the answer, but I would suspect that math is pretty telling. It's possible I'm wrong, but given the anecdotal evidence, I doubt it.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!