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ASB is BULL.

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Pipa Porto
#41 - 2012-07-29 02:20:33 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:
so TL : DR

I took an expensive ship hunting and got my ass beat by another expensive obviously better fit ship. /RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*EDIT - for YEARS people have been screaming at CCP to make it so 5 VS. 1 is not an instant win.... WISH GRANTED :)


His ship cost what, 2 thousand ISK? Since when is that expensive? Twisted

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2012-07-29 02:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Freezehunter wrote:
Never understood why lasers in Eve don't have near perfect tracking, they are energy beam weapons (light of speed hitting), lasers IRL have amazing tracking just like CIWS miniguns.
Because it's difficult to keep the beam focused on the same spot to the extent needed to start punching holes in stuff. Pointing a laser at a target is easy; making it have more effect than a fancy torch is not.

…and if you want to make an argument about realism, everyone would just be using missiles anyway.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#43 - 2012-07-29 02:21:49 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:

Now you are talking about balance when you call me a ******** whiner for complaining that there is a mod in the game that can take a rattlesnake from 5% shield to 100% shield 5 times in a row.

Hypocrite much?


Just imagine how much he's crying over whatever it is you said. He's imagining the same thing about you too! It's such a happy little relationship on the EVE forums.
Freezehunter
#44 - 2012-07-29 02:24:05 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).

Enormous base damage? wat...
"Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with cap use"... loal, yes thats why you can run out of cap by just running your turrets on a battleship in a few minutes. :D


EDIT: How often do you actually fly Amarr in PVP, tell me.



A Hellcat Abaddon with 2 Damage mods hits 900 DPS at 20km (15km with 2 tracking scripts instead) with Navy Multi. 1k DPS Attention with Conflag, but that's somewhat situational and harder to apply.

Then you have the MAGIC that is Scorch, pushing that same boat to 717DPS at 58km (45km). Reach out and touch someone indeed.

At the same time it has 130k EHP. They're a great fleetcomp.

That's 2 Damage mods. A Machariel running Hail and 2 damage mods does only 930 DPS at 3km. By the time you get to 15km, it's dropped to below 800 DPS. That's compared to a non-Pirate faction BS.

An Abaddon is gankier than a Machariel when fit similarly. Ponder that for a moment when you say Lasers don't have great damage.

Now, on to range projection:
Abaddon Scorch: 717 DPS all the way out to 60km (45 w/ Tracking).
Machariel Barrage: 665 DPS all the way out to 8km (6 w/ tracking), by 60km it's dropped below 500 DPS (below 500 DPS at 45km with Tracking).


I love the Harbi. I flew the Hellcat and the Ahac (<3 AHAX) with Red Legion in Detorid. The Guardian rocks. The Punisher is one of my favorite Frigates.


Your stats are all wrong, how is it that I have a Machariel that does 1200 gun DPS?

Nothing beats Machariel at turrets, and especially not pathetic lasers.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#45 - 2012-07-29 02:24:18 UTC
You were playing on SISI, where everyone flies Deadspace A-type Tank, faction damage mods, 6% hard wirings, leadership bonuses, Strong Drugs, High Grade Crystal/Slave implants, Super high meta mods.


What you experience on Sisi, is hardly reflective on what actually happens on TQ.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2012-07-29 02:25:27 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:


Now you are talking about balance when you call me a ******** whiner for complaining that there is a mod in the game that can take a rattlesnake from 5% shield to 100% shield 5 times in a row.

Hypocrite much?


I'm suggesting a change that would 'probably' be beneficial to the game. I work around the current state of affairs instead of loosing one fight against ship fitted with a mod due to my own ineptitude then go ***** about how its op and needs nerfed " NOW BECAUSE MY AWSOME PIRATE BS THAT I'M TOO MUCH OF A WIMP TO FLY ON THE REAL SERVER SHOULD BE AN AUTOMATIC I WIN BUTTON WAH etcetc."
Zoe Athame
Don't Lose Your Way
#47 - 2012-07-29 02:25:57 UTC
Maybe I havn't been flying in the right corps, but how often do you 1v1 a bhaalgorn vs a rattlesnake?
Freezehunter
#48 - 2012-07-29 02:26:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Never understood why lasers in Eve don't have near perfect tracking, they are energy beam weapons (light of speed hitting), lasers IRL have amazing tracking just like CIWS miniguns.
Because it's difficult to keep the beam focused on the same spot to the extent needed to start punching holes in stuff. Pointing a laser at a target is easy; making it have more effect than a fancy torch is not.

…and if you want to make an argument about realism, everyone would just be using missiles anyway.


Good point, but still.

Lasers IRL can use computers to stay focused on a missile going mach 5 long enough to make its fuel detonate and bring it down.

You would expect tech 24000 years from now to be better than that would you not?

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Freezehunter
#49 - 2012-07-29 02:26:41 UTC
Zoe Athame wrote:
Maybe I havn't been flying in the right corps, but how often do you 1v1 a bhaalgorn vs a rattlesnake?


On the test server, every 20 minutes or so.

And unless Rattle has a bullshit OP mod on it or 2, Bhaalgorn always wins.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Pipa Porto
#50 - 2012-07-29 02:27:24 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).

Enormous base damage? wat...
"Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with cap use"... loal, yes thats why you can run out of cap by just running your turrets on a battleship in a few minutes. :D


EDIT: How often do you actually fly Amarr in PVP, tell me.



A Hellcat Abaddon with 2 Damage mods hits 900 DPS at 20km (15km with 2 tracking scripts instead) with Navy Multi. 1k DPS Attention with Conflag, but that's somewhat situational and harder to apply.

Then you have the MAGIC that is Scorch, pushing that same boat to 717DPS at 58km (45km). Reach out and touch someone indeed.

At the same time it has 130k EHP. They're a great fleetcomp.

That's 2 Damage mods. A Machariel running Hail and 2 damage mods does only 930 DPS at 3km. By the time you get to 15km, it's dropped to below 800 DPS. That's compared to a non-Pirate faction BS.

An Abaddon is gankier than a Machariel when fit similarly. Ponder that for a moment when you say Lasers don't have great damage.

Now, on to range projection:
Abaddon Scorch: 717 DPS all the way out to 60km (45 w/ Tracking).
Machariel Barrage: 665 DPS all the way out to 8km (6 w/ tracking), by 60km it's dropped below 500 DPS (below 500 DPS at 45km with Tracking).


I love the Harbi. I flew the Hellcat and the Ahac (<3 AHAX) with Red Legion in Detorid. The Guardian rocks. The Punisher is one of my favorite Frigates.


Your stats are all wrong, how is it that I have a Machariel that does 1200 gun DPS?

Nothing beats Machariel at turrets, and especially not pathetic lasers.


When Fit Similarly.

Fit an Abaddon with the same number of DPS mods as you need to hit 1200 DPS on a Mach and it hits 1228 DPS. And it projects that DPS much better.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Freezehunter
#51 - 2012-07-29 02:28:07 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
You were playing on SISI, where everyone flies Deadspace A-type Tank, faction damage mods, 6% hard wirings, leadership bonuses, Strong Drugs, High Grade Crystal/Slave implants, Super high meta mods.


What you experience on Sisi, is hardly reflective on what actually happens on TQ.


True I guess, the Bhaalgown was actually fully T2 fit, and no implants in my head.

The whole thing would be just about 1.2 bil on TQ.

Yeah, that might have been the problem as well, I agree.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Sang-in Tiers
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-07-29 02:28:46 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:

Enormous base damage? wat...

they do - which is why you usually won't see bonuses for turret damage on amarr ships and why their cap and PG requirements are balanced in a way that makes fitting them to non-amarr ships pretty much impossible.

lasers are by design overpowered relative to the other weapon types.

(my personal feeling is that lasers are in a fine place right now - they were very strong ca. 2008 but since projectiles and hybrids got buffs and the field is relatively balanced; putting them back into a significantly stronger position now would only initiate another cycle of stat inflation)

Hybrids got higher dps and better tracking, higher falloff, but worse optimal.
Pipa Porto
#53 - 2012-07-29 02:29:07 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Zoe Athame wrote:
Maybe I havn't been flying in the right corps, but how often do you 1v1 a bhaalgorn vs a rattlesnake?


On the test server, every 20 minutes or so.

And unless Rattle has a bullshit OP mod on it or 2, Bhaalgorn always wins.


So, unless they use a fit that specifically counters your fit, they win? Try finding a counter to the ASB. All you need is to tank them until they run out of Cargo room.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Freezehunter
#54 - 2012-07-29 02:29:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Pipa Porto wrote:

Fit an Abaddon with the same number of DPS mods as you need to hit 1200 DPS on a Mach and it hits 1228 DPS. And it projects that DPS much better.


True, but it does not do Explosive and Kinetic damage.

It does not go 700 mps.

It can't tank 500 DPS.

It can't instapop frigates and cruisers between 10 and 80 kilometers.

Needs cap for guns.

Meeeeeeeeh...

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-07-29 02:30:21 UTC
I CANT SOLO A TITAN IN MY REAPER WTF CCP

hello
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-07-29 02:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Freezehunter wrote:

Your stats are all wrong, how is it that I have a Machariel that does 1200 gun DPS?

Nothing beats Machariel at turrets, and especially not pathetic lasers.

Hellcat is a fleet fitting and the Machariel Pipa Porto compares it to is "fit similarly".

Using a typical Machariel fleet fitting I get 891 - 1015 gun dps using RF EMP and faction heat sinks (depending on whether I go with one or two nanofibers).

.
Pipa Porto
#57 - 2012-07-29 02:33:21 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Fit an Abaddon with the same number of DPS mods as you need to hit 1200 DPS on a Mach and it hits 1228 DPS. And it projects that DPS much better.


True, but it does not do Explosive and Kinetic damage.


The Mach doesn't do EM or Therm at 1200 DPS. It has to drop 25% of its DPS to shoot outside of essentially pure EXP damage.

Nobody leaves big enough holes for the damage types to matter particularly.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Freezehunter
#58 - 2012-07-29 02:33:32 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Zoe Athame wrote:
Maybe I havn't been flying in the right corps, but how often do you 1v1 a bhaalgorn vs a rattlesnake?


On the test server, every 20 minutes or so.

And unless Rattle has a bullshit OP mod on it or 2, Bhaalgorn always wins.


So, unless they use a fit that specifically counters your fit, they win? Try finding a counter to the ASB. All you need is to tank them until they run out of Cargo room.


Can't tank when all I have is a buffer.

He had a buffer + huge passive recharge and 2 ASB, impossible to beat before my buffer runs out.

And it's not like he was using turrets so I could just be smart and outmaneuver his guns.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2012-07-29 02:34:14 UTC
Also lol OP bringing up my kb stats 138 kills with losses being almost exclusively frigs with some very badly fit gallente bs thrown in. Very impressive...
Freezehunter
#60 - 2012-07-29 02:34:29 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Fit an Abaddon with the same number of DPS mods as you need to hit 1200 DPS on a Mach and it hits 1228 DPS. And it projects that DPS much better.


True, but it does not do Explosive and Kinetic damage.


The Mach doesn't do EM or Therm at 1200 DPS. It has to drop 25% of its DPS to shoot outside of essentially pure EXP damage.

Nobody leaves big enough holes for the damage types to matter particularly.


Wrong.

Mach does the same thermal, explosive and EM DPS, you just need to switch ammo.

Only kinetic is lower. By about 400 DPS.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.