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ASB is BULL.

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Sang-in Tiers
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-07-29 01:45:35 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Yea well Amarr stuff sucks, its as simple as that. Laser suck, armor tanking sucks. End of.


Show me a bs with 90k raw shields that does 600 dps before drones at 50k with full damage 90% of the time. Might believe you then.

The benefits of other weapon systems and shield tanking are bigger, lasers needs a fix...
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2012-07-29 01:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Cahill
Freezehunter wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
So let me get this straight.

You're pissed at loosing a shitfit bhaal to a well tanked rattlesnake while flying solo.

On sisi.

I have some advice you should follow friend, before you start commenting on the state of mods in eve:

1) Grow some balls and fight on tranq
2) Learn to fit ships.
3) Don't go crying to CCP if you loose a fight. It won't work and just makes you look pathetic.
4) Don't fly what you cant afford to loose (emotionally as well as financially)


How about you shove your advice up your ass?

Judging by your killboard all you do is fly in drake swarm fleets.

Don't give PVP advice when all you do is blob in a drake and count on 50 fleetmates to kill your enemies.

Try giving advice when you use armor tanks, buffers, ECM, painters, webs, scramblers, neutralizers, nosferatus, cap micromanagement, speed tanks and turrets, not the most noob PVP friendly ship in the game whose only skill requirement is pressing F1.


Lmfao if you say so dude because i don't have a slave set in and am not flying around in my geddon as we speak. And not on sisi either. But ok then lets go through you're list:
armor tanks.... covered
buffer tanking: moot as drakes do this you moron
ecm: falcon alt best alt
painters: sure on my bomber, useful for **** all else
webs and scrams: you know every one day old newbie in null uses these?
neuts: hurricanes maybe? or my bhaal perhaps?
nosferatus: pretty pointless these days except on frigs or if you have a spare high on a shield ship to keep you're hardeners running.
cap micromanagement: cheek to talk with you're cap boosterless amarr battleship
speed tanks: on a battleship? really?
turrets: im not even dignifying that with an answer

TL:DR OP is ********, if you're going to bring someones killboard stats to an argument do you're research better than him.

EDIT: for the record when i do do drakeblobs. 50? you do the CFC a disservice sir. Try 500.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2012-07-29 01:50:25 UTC
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Yea well Amarr stuff sucks, its as simple as that. Laser suck, armor tanking sucks. End of.


Show me a bs with 90k raw shields that does 600 dps before drones at 50k with full damage 90% of the time. Might believe you then.

The benefits of other weapon systems and shield tanking are bigger, lasers needs a fix...


I disagree about shields but yes lasers could use a little love.
Freezehunter
#24 - 2012-07-29 01:51:04 UTC
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Yea well Amarr stuff sucks, its as simple as that. Laser suck, armor tanking sucks. End of.


Show me a bs with 90k raw shields that does 600 dps before drones at 50k with full damage 90% of the time. Might believe you then.

The benefits of other weapon systems and shield tanking are bigger, lasers needs a fix...


Regarding lasers I'd be happy if they made pulse tracking a tad better and they added Lux (explosive laser) Crystals back in the game.

Blasters have awesome tracking and damage.
Autocannons have awesome tracking, falloff and ROF, and no energy use.
Rails have awesome sniping capability.
Arty has awesome alpha.
Lasers have....

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Sang-in Tiers
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-07-29 01:52:18 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Yea well Amarr stuff sucks, its as simple as that. Laser suck, armor tanking sucks. End of.


Show me a bs with 90k raw shields that does 600 dps before drones at 50k with full damage 90% of the time. Might believe you then.

The benefits of other weapon systems and shield tanking are bigger, lasers needs a fix...


I disagree about shields but yes lasers could use a little love.

It's funny how almost noone disagrees with that fact and yet CCP doesn't seem to notice or care. :<
Demolishar
United Aggression
#26 - 2012-07-29 01:53:42 UTC
CCP should simply shut down EVE - that would create the greatest tear deluge of all. Who cares that the gameplay is gone - you believe that you know that some other person is crying - while they believe they know the same thing about you and everyone can be happy that everyone else is not happy.

inb4 I'm crying too.
Pipa Porto
#27 - 2012-07-29 01:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).


If Lasers are broken, why are Hellcats and AHAX fairly wonderful fleetcomps.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2012-07-29 01:55:20 UTC
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Yea well Amarr stuff sucks, its as simple as that. Laser suck, armor tanking sucks. End of.


Show me a bs with 90k raw shields that does 600 dps before drones at 50k with full damage 90% of the time. Might believe you then.

The benefits of other weapon systems and shield tanking are bigger, lasers needs a fix...


I disagree about shields but yes lasers could use a little love.

It's funny how almost noone disagrees with that fact and yet CCP doesn't seem to notice or care. :<


Its situational to be honest. Some areas armor is better, some shield.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#29 - 2012-07-29 01:55:51 UTC
My tear cup overfloweth.

And since when does armor tanking suck? I seem to recall some time back in the day when this group commonly refered to as the DRF went hog-wild and crushed the NC using supercap superiority and an alpha-geddon armor BS doctrine.

CCP has stated that the ASB was designed to make active shield tanking more viable in pvp. So working as intended.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2012-07-29 01:57:45 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).


If Lasers are broken, why are Hellcats and AHAX fairly wonderful fleetcomps.


This.

They could do with a slight pg req. reduction though ;P.
Sang-in Tiers
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-07-29 02:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sang-in Tiers
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).

Enormous base damage? wat...
"Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with cap use"... loal, yes thats why you can run out of cap by just running your turrets on a battleship in a few minutes. :D


EDIT: How often do you actually fly Amarr in PVP, tell me.

Cameron Cahill wrote:

Its situational to be honest. Some areas armor is better, some shield.

Was talking about the laser part, if they fixed tracking it would be quite okay I guess.
Freezehunter
#32 - 2012-07-29 02:04:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).


If Lasers are broken, why are Hellcats and AHAX fairly wonderful fleetcomps.


This.

They could do with a slight pg req. reduction though ;P.


Well to be fair the high PG use makes sense on lasers.

Crap tracking does not, pulse lasers should track even better than blasters or at least a little better than Autocannons.

Right now they are at just about Railgun level and that is weird.

Never understood why lasers in Eve don't have near perfect tracking, they are energy beam weapons (light of speed hitting), lasers IRL have amazing tracking just like CIWS miniguns.

The downside to lasers would totally be justified if they at least had blaster-level tracking.

But enough about lasers needing a buff, lets return to bitching about ASB being OP now.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Quaaid
Phoenix Foundry
#33 - 2012-07-29 02:05:50 UTC
Quote:
So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.

It was a 1 v 1 fight versus a RATTLESNAKE in a BHAALGORN and I LOST.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do, the typical super passive+crap boring drones and pathetic 150 dps cruise missiles setup.


You lost a Bhaal to a Mission Runner?
Were you even pointed?
Could you not cap him and run if you were pointed?
Did you not kill his drones?



Quote:
If this was a TQ fight I would have been ******* pissed for losing a Bhallgorn to a **** fit mission rattlesnake with two bullshit overpowered mods on it.


So, to be clear... you are not mad now? You just would be mad IF if was on TQ. So this is not rage posting?
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-07-29 02:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Sang-in Tiers wrote:

Enormous base damage? wat...

they do - which is why you usually won't see bonuses for turret damage on amarr ships and why their cap and PG requirements are balanced in a way that makes fitting them to non-amarr ships pretty much impossible.

lasers are by design overpowered relative to the other weapon types.

(my personal feeling is that lasers are in a fine place right now - they were very strong ca. 2008 but since projectiles and hybrids got buffs and the field is relatively balanced; putting them back into a significantly stronger position now would only initiate another cycle of stat inflation)

.
Freezehunter
#35 - 2012-07-29 02:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Quaaid wrote:
Quote:
So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.

It was a 1 v 1 fight versus a RATTLESNAKE in a BHAALGORN and I LOST.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do, the typical super passive+crap boring drones and pathetic 150 dps cruise missiles setup.


You lost a Bhaal to a Mission Runner?
Were you even pointed?
Could you not cap him and run if you were pointed?
Did you not kill his drones?



Quote:
If this was a TQ fight I would have been ******* pissed for losing a Bhallgorn to a **** fit mission rattlesnake with two bullshit overpowered mods on it.


So, to be clear... you are not mad now? You just would be mad IF if was on TQ. So this is not rage posting?


I ain't even mad.

Yes, I was pointed and Target painted.

It's just that it seems dumb that I killed 2 other guys, all his drones and got him into 5% shields 5 times in a row and I still lost.

All he did was just sit there and turn his ASB on to go back to almost full/full shields.

Not fair and balanced in terms of player skill.

If this was a FPS and the guy would have aimed slow like a ******, didn't move and only shot randomly in my direction, he would have been dead, in eve he can just turn his overpowered instant buffer on and win.

Reminded me of the Heavy class in TF 2. Just stand there and spam your huge damage cone minigun until something dies before your 300 HP runs out.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-07-29 02:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Garreth Vlox
Freezehunter wrote:
So, I just had a test fight on SiSi.

It was a 1 v 1 fight versus a RATTLESNAKE in a BHAALGORN and I LOST.

My Bhaalgorn had 250 K EHP, 850 gun + 200 drone DPS, dual web, dual NOS, one neutralizer, one tracking computer with tracking scripts, one target painter, one warp scrambler and 4 T2 pulses with COnflagration L crystals.

The other guy had a generic mission carebear **** fit like all rattlesnakes do, the typical super passive+crap boring drones and pathetic 150 dps cruise missiles setup.

I got the guy into 5% shield FIVE ******* TIMES IN A ROW and he always bounced right up back to 70-100% in a few short seconds.

If this was a TQ fight I would have been ******* pissed for losing a Bhallgorn to a **** fit mission rattlesnake with two bullshit overpowered mods on it.

Any word on when the F you intend to NERF the ASB or at least limit the son of a ***** to ONE per ship, CCP?

The other day I had this guy in a MERLIN tank SIX GUYS in CA 1 in PVH for 8 consecutive minutes using ASB.

No seriously, when are you nerfing that ****?

If you're going to leave it like that, at least make armor repairers or armor plates repair armor passively when inactive and work like an ASB when activated.

Seriously CCP, ASB is retardedly OP right now.


so TL : DR

I took an expensive ship hunting and got my ass beat by another expensive obviously better fit ship. /RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*EDIT - for YEARS people have been screaming at CCP to make it so 5 VS. 1 is not an instant win.... WISH GRANTED :)

The LULZ Boat.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2012-07-29 02:08:42 UTC
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).

Enormous base damage? wat...
"Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with cap use"... loal, yes thats why you can run out of cap by just running your turrets on a battleship in a few minutes. :D


EDIT: How often do you actually fly Amarr in PVP, tell me.

Cameron Cahill wrote:

Its situational to be honest. Some areas armor is better, some shield.

Was talking about the laser part, if they fixed tracking it would be quite okay I guess.


On smalls yes but i can deal with the tracking if i can fit heavy pulses and a 1600 plate to my harbinger. or a full rack of tachyons on any t1 bs without more than 1 fitting mods.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2012-07-29 02:14:44 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).


If Lasers are broken, why are Hellcats and AHAX fairly wonderful fleetcomps.


This.

They could do with a slight pg req. reduction though ;P.


Well to be fair the high PG use makes sense on lasers.

Crap tracking does not, pulse lasers should track even better than blasters or at least a little better than Autocannons.

Right now they are at just about Railgun level and that is weird.

Never understood why lasers in Eve don't have near perfect tracking, they are energy beam weapons (light of speed hitting), lasers IRL have amazing tracking just like CIWS miniguns.

The downside to lasers would totally be justified if they at least had blaster-level tracking.

But enough about lasers needing a buff, lets return to bitching about ASB being OP now.


You're talking lore not mechanics. It may make sense but its unbalanced. But if you're going to have that argument targeting computers would be able to hit almost anything with almost anything at 1k+ out so irl arguments about spaceship gun tracking are kind of daft.
Pipa Porto
#39 - 2012-07-29 02:19:02 UTC
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).

Enormous base damage? wat...
"Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with cap use"... loal, yes thats why you can run out of cap by just running your turrets on a battleship in a few minutes. :D


EDIT: How often do you actually fly Amarr in PVP, tell me.



A Hellcat Abaddon with 2 Damage mods hits 900 DPS at 20km (15km with 2 tracking scripts instead) with Navy Multi. 1k DPS Attention with Conflag, but that's somewhat situational and harder to apply.

Then you have the MAGIC that is Scorch, pushing that same boat to 717DPS at 58km (45km). Reach out and touch someone indeed.

At the same time it has 130k EHP. They're a great fleetcomp.

That's 2 Damage mods. A Machariel running Hail and 2 damage mods does only 930 DPS at 3km. By the time you get to 15km, it's dropped to below 800 DPS. That's compared to a non-Pirate faction BS.

An Abaddon is gankier than a Machariel when fit similarly. Ponder that for a moment when you say Lasers don't have great damage.

Now, on to range projection:
Abaddon Scorch: 717 DPS all the way out to 60km (45 w/ Tracking).
Machariel Barrage: 665 DPS all the way out to 8km (6 w/ tracking), by 60km it's dropped below 500 DPS (below 500 DPS at 45km with Tracking).


I love the Harbi. I flew the Hellcat and the Ahac (<3 AHAX) with Red Legion in Detorid. The Guardian rocks. The Punisher is one of my favorite Frigates.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Freezehunter
#40 - 2012-07-29 02:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:

Crap damage types.
Crap tracking (when lasers IRL can shoot down missiles going mach 5)
Huge cap usage.


Meeeeh.


Enormous base Damage. (2 Heatsinks on a Hellcat give you ~900dps)
Fit on wonderful ships. Ships that are designed to deal with the Cap use.
Spectacular damage projection.

The damage types aren't really a problem either, since most people patch their holes (Therm is usually the heardest to patch, btw).


If Lasers are broken, why are Hellcats and AHAX fairly wonderful fleetcomps.


This.

They could do with a slight pg req. reduction though ;P.


Well to be fair the high PG use makes sense on lasers.

Crap tracking does not, pulse lasers should track even better than blasters or at least a little better than Autocannons.

Right now they are at just about Railgun level and that is weird.

Never understood why lasers in Eve don't have near perfect tracking, they are energy beam weapons (light of speed hitting), lasers IRL have amazing tracking just like CIWS miniguns.

The downside to lasers would totally be justified if they at least had blaster-level tracking.

But enough about lasers needing a buff, lets return to bitching about ASB being OP now.


You're talking lore not mechanics. It may make sense but its unbalanced. But if you're going to have that argument targeting computers would be able to hit almost anything with almost anything at 1k+ out so irl arguments about spaceship gun tracking are kind of daft.


Now you are talking about balance when you call me a ******** whiner for complaining that there is a mod in the game that can take a rattlesnake from 5% shield to 100% shield 5 times in a row.

But of course you support that, you fly in Drake blob fleets and that overpowered ASB crap probably saved your ass more than once.

Hypocrite much?

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.