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Many dead in shooting at Batman premier in Denver...
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Nicoli Voldkif
Legion of the Obsidion Star
#281 - 2012-07-28 05:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoli Voldkif
Had a much longer post but it got wiped so here is the short version

Legal guns are not used in the majority of "regular" day to day crime in the US according to the FBI

They are however utilized by people who are mentally unstable because we in the US would rather protect the reputation of the mentally unstable then the dozens of people that he may harm. If there is anything that needs to be fixed is that.

Most guns are not for self defense but for other reasons, I have 3 myself and they are 2 historic firearms and 1 .22LR for target shooting. The one historic doubles as a hunting rifle.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2012-07-28 05:42:44 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Most of the media is focusing on the AR and the fact that the gunman was using a high capacity 100-rounds magazine. But nobody actually knows how many rounds were fired with the AR before it jammed. I might have been 2 or 3 rounds for all we know. ARs are known to jam a lot, specially when used with modified after market magazines (I've seen this happen at the range more than once).


It's more a maintenance thing, I don't think the guy that tried to wield 3 firearms at once has the first clue about weapons maintenance. My M16(A4!) only ever jammed once on me when I put too many rounds in the magazine so it double fed.

Also those high capacity magazines do have a rather crappy track record of reliability P

You want high capacity get something belt fed




Here, strap your bacon onto this.


That would be good for duck hunting... if the ducks were T-rex sized Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#283 - 2012-07-28 06:40:15 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Car-jacked at gun point? In Spain? ROTFL! Lol

This is not the USA, chaval. I've spent a lot of time and words trying to tell you how different laws and a different culture produce different crime and different criminals, and all I got from you is trolling...


Don't make a blank statement to provoke a reaction and then come back saying "oh I was talking about Spain only". Troll...



I've been talking about firearms and cirme in Spain since the first comment on homicide rate. I wonder what low reading comprehension it takes to not notice it for several days and messages... Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Dunan Sanis
Perkone
Caldari State
#284 - 2012-07-29 16:26:15 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
I looked around trying to find more info on the weapons used...

From this article we get that the gunman used the shotgun first, then switched to AR-15, which jammed, and then finished with a handgun.

Most of the media is focusing on the AR and the fact that the gunman was using a high capacity 100-rounds magazine. But nobody actually knows how many rounds were fired with the AR before it jammed. I might have been 2 or 3 rounds for all we know. ARs are known to jam a lot, specially when used with modified after market magazines (I've seen this happen at the range more than once).

The shotgun is another puzzle. Shotgun shells can have hundreds of small pellets (for birds) or one gigantic slug (for deer). Here again, he might have killed a few with it, or might have killed none.

The handgun was first reported to be a glock .40 but later it was corrected to be a Les Baer .45 pistol. If my info is correct (1911 fans correct me if I'm wrong), that holds 8 rounds in the magazine and 1 in the chamber... 9 rounds total. The lethality of the of 45ACP cartridge afaik is about 90% for victims that had only one shot (again, correct me if I'm wrong). From that I honestly believe most of the fatalities were from the handgun.

It was also reported that the gunman was using a tactical vest. I have no doubt he had extra magazines for the 45 in it. I'm not sure if this gun is a "last-shot-hold-open" or not. If it is, it would be real easy and fast even for a novice to change magazines.

Personally, I'm not in favor of any gun-bans AT ALL. But if something is to get banned, lets at least ban the weapon that was most lethal, and not the one that "looked" lethal. Such measure would at least make *some* sense.

Several countries (Brazil for example) have gun laws that restrict civilians from using handgun calibers bigger than 380ACP. The idea is that you can defend yourself, but are less likely to kill. Anybody from Vera Cruz please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you go to Europe, several law enforcement agencies use the 380ACP as the standard issue round. (our Spain friend can comment on this).

Like I said, while I'm against any time of restrictions. Caliber restrictions on handguns do make more sense (1911 fans please don't hate me). And no, I'm not saying it just because I have an itty bitty tiny 380ACP pocket pistol myself. The 380ACP serves a purpose when carrying conceal in 100 degrees Floridian weather, wearing only a t-shirt and short pants.



Caliber has nothing to do with lethality.

A .45 fired by your typical handgun will go through a body cleanly while a 5.56 fired by a standard assault rifle will cause TERRIBLE damages.

After that you give the exemple of the 380ACP like if it was a gentle bullet not meant to kill... First 9mm is A LOT. Would you consider 7.62 to be small?

Secondly 9mm is a VERY common caliber so using it as a special exemple is a little strange

Finally the reaon the 380ACP can be considered low power is not because of the caliber of the bullet at all but the length of the cartridge.
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#285 - 2012-07-29 20:42:31 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

I've been talking about firearms and cirme in Spain since the first comment on homicide rate. I wonder what low reading comprehension it takes to not notice it for several days and messages... Roll


You were talking about "the rest of the world" and making assumptions left and right about why Americans do what they do, based on sources you failed to cite. I do appreciate your Spain specific input. I love to learn as much as possible about other countries, specially Spanish speaking countries.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#286 - 2012-07-29 20:43:15 UTC
Dunan Sanis wrote:

Caliber has nothing to do with lethality.
...
Finally the reaon the 380ACP can be considered low power is not because of the caliber of the bullet at all but the length of the cartridge.


Well, if we get really technical we'll get some people saying that 9mm and 380ACP is the same caliber with different cartridges. Which might possibly be true as bullets do look the same to me with the naked eye.

I'm not trying to say that the 380ACP is not lethal. It can surely kill. But there's a page (can't find the link right now) that has some stats as per the total number of people that had been hit with xyz caliber and how many of them died. That's where the theoretical "caliber/cartridge lethality" numbers come from.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2012-07-29 21:38:03 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Dunan Sanis wrote:

Caliber has nothing to do with lethality.
...
Finally the reaon the 380ACP can be considered low power is not because of the caliber of the bullet at all but the length of the cartridge.


Well, if we get really technical we'll get some people saying that 9mm and 380ACP is the same caliber with different cartridges. Which might possibly be true as bullets do look the same to me with the naked eye.

I'm not trying to say that the 380ACP is not lethal. It can surely kill. But there's a page (can't find the link right now) that has some stats as per the total number of people that had been hit with xyz caliber and how many of them died. That's where the theoretical "caliber/cartridge lethality" numbers come from.



More people have been killed by .22 LR rounds than any other caliber

Knowledge is power! Idea

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#288 - 2012-07-29 21:54:32 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Dunan Sanis wrote:

Caliber has nothing to do with lethality.
...
Finally the reaon the 380ACP can be considered low power is not because of the caliber of the bullet at all but the length of the cartridge.


Well, if we get really technical we'll get some people saying that 9mm and 380ACP is the same caliber with different cartridges. Which might possibly be true as bullets do look the same to me with the naked eye.

I'm not trying to say that the 380ACP is not lethal. It can surely kill. But there's a page (can't find the link right now) that has some stats as per the total number of people that had been hit with xyz caliber and how many of them died. That's where the theoretical "caliber/cartridge lethality" numbers come from.



More people have been killed by .22 LR rounds than any other caliber

Knowledge is power! Idea


Yes, 22LR is cheap, therefore is it used the most, therefore it has the most deaths. Not uncommon to see people with 10k rounds of it in the garage, on a shelf.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#289 - 2012-07-29 23:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
A well-placed 22CB will kill and without so much more sound than a hand clap.

I don't remember what "CB" means, but we all called them "Cat bullets" because they were ideal for taking out stray cats without making too much noise.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#290 - 2012-07-29 23:43:08 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
A well-placed 22CB will kill and without so much more sound than a hand clap.

I don't remember what "CB" means, but we all called them "Cat bullets" because they were ideal for taking out stray cats without making too much noise.


You monster!

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#291 - 2012-07-30 06:20:59 UTC
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
A well-placed 22CB will kill and without so much more sound than a hand clap.

I don't remember what "CB" means, but we all called them "Cat bullets" because they were ideal for taking out stray cats without making too much noise.


You monster!




Even my mother says that.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#292 - 2012-07-30 07:41:04 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:




Even my mother says that.




Always listen to your mother.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#293 - 2012-08-07 23:54:16 UTC
Hmmm - was the second windup toy late and this is one of the "other shooters"?

breaking news


Looks like we will need "Gasoline Control". Though as far as theaters are concerned, I would rather be shot at than firebombed. Much easier to dodge bullets than try to climb over melting flesh that is still trying to climb over you.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!