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Rifter NEEDS a shield boost bonus

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Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#41 - 2012-07-25 02:50:44 UTC
The rifter is a damn good ship as it is. It has four weapon slots compared to three for the other ships. It is the fastest combat frigate. It is also the smallest combat frigate. It can shield or armor tank, just (gasp), not as well as the specialized shield and armor races. It's weapons are capless with damage selectability. But most importantly with a choice of a utility high it can serve in the tackle role better then the other combat frigates. It is a jack of all trades and a master of none. That is quintessential Minmatar.

If you want to argue that a 4-4-2 slot ship with a tighter fitting grid is better... I was looking at 125mm AC and a named MSE on SISSI. I liked the Atron alot better tbh.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-07-25 02:54:38 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The rifter is a damn good ship as it is. It has four weapon slots compared to three for the other ships. It is the fastest combat frigate. It is also the smallest combat frigate. It can shield or armor tank, just (gasp), not as well as the specialized shield and armor races. It's weapons are capless with damage selectability. But most importantly with a choice of a utility high it can serve in the tackle role better then the other combat frigates. It is a jack of all trades and a master of none. That is quintessential Minmatar.

If you want to argue that a 4-4-2 slot ship with a tighter fitting grid is better... I was looking at 125mm AC and a named MSE on SISSI. I liked the Atron alot better tbh.


too bad the devs agree with me. But thanks for your opinion.

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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#43 - 2012-07-25 03:11:39 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
.... It is also the smallest combat frigate..

How? Its almost as big as a cruiser now.

Unless your talking about sig... in which case never mind.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#44 - 2012-07-25 03:24:58 UTC
MintyRoadkill wrote:
Mechael wrote:
MintyRoadkill wrote:
Manssell wrote:
Aurora RedNova wrote:
... and has the ability as only one of them to choose damage type.
..



Why do people keep saying this? Any frig that fits rockets or missiles also gets to choose damage types. And even gets T2 versions of all damage types, where as projectiles only get T2 explosive.


Frig missiles are horrible, though. And Caldari ships usually get kinetic-only bonuses, so when the only way to have semi-respectable DPS is to use kinetic, no, you're not really choosing your damage type.


lol math fail. Too much effort? When the DPS that you do is determined in a large part (arguably mostly) by the speed, sig, and resist profile of whatever you're shooting at, what that kinetic bonus winds up giving you us ultra-high dps against anything with a kinetic weakness (such as most reasonably fit Minmatar ships, as one example) and thanks to T2 damage-specific ammo, acceptable-to-great DPS against any other weakness.

Combined with the fact that missiles allow you to not give a **** about transversal velocity or falloff, the argument against the kinetic bonus becomes quite negligible.


T2 Minmatar ships specifically are weak to kinetic, yes. But kinetic is not a good damage type in the big picture. Why do you think almost all projectile pilots fit EMP, or at the very least, Phased Plasma?

Rockets, which allow you to have passable on-paper DPS, do nothing even close to full damage against a small ship that's moving, and falloff/angular velocity issues aren't present, no, but that actually gives turret users the advantage of being able to fly straight at or away from missile ships to increase their damage, while the speed of the ship will allow it to reduce incoming DPS from missiles, because, as you noticed, angular velocity is not an issue.

As for the math fail, i'm talking about how a Kestrel with 2 BCU II's and 4 Rocket launchers will do 136 DPS with non-kinetic Caldari Navy Rockets, while a similarly fit Merlin with 2 Mag stab II's and 3 Blasters will do 211 DPS with Caldari Navy Antimatter (which has two damage types). How's that for a math fail?


That's before the tier system is removed. Kestrel was originally designed to be worse than the merlin, unfortunately. Luckily that'll be fixed soon.

And yes, missiles could probably use some tweaking (almost everything can always use some tweaking,) but overall they're not one of the biggest issues. That would be the damage formulas that don't really take into account that something far away should be hard to hit (not realistically enough, anyway) which leads to the fleets full of large ships with ranged weapons and little else. And, of course, the tier system, and how most classes seem to not have a full compliment of ship types. Only 3 battleships for each race, and aside from the Scorpion they're all basically combat battleships. WTF?

So yeah, good to see that they're tackling the big issues (well, one of them) first.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#45 - 2012-07-25 05:19:57 UTC
Aurora RedNova wrote:
LOL.
I REALLY don´t believe it. Rifter is for example still better than the Punisher but CCP needs to care about wining minnes that their T1 frig isn´t so overpowered as it was all the years.
I really don´t get it. Why not buff the Punisher to be on par with Rifter, Merlin and Incursus? Lol.
But if Minnies are wining CCP will do sth imediately. Yeah.
The new Incursus was really something Gallente needed, Merlin is probably a litle bit op, Punisher is crap as always because it is an amarr ship and CCP doesn´t care about amarr and Rifter is okay too.
It is especailly the only one frigate of the four ones (Rifter, Inc, Merlin, Pun) which has a bonus on weapons which do not need cap and has the ability as only one of them to choose damage type.
But no. Minnies are wining that their Rfter is not overpowered as it was all the years before. LOL.
And the best: CCP is reacting.
Yes of course CCP. Give the Rifter more cap than the Punisher and a shield boost bonus and Minnies aren´t wining and everything is as always: WINMATAR.
LOL



Cry more?

Or you could just fly the new Condor once it goes live. (I totally <3 that ship.)

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#46 - 2012-07-25 15:27:32 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The rifter is a damn good ship as it is. It has four weapon slots compared to three for the other ships. It is the fastest combat frigate. It is also the smallest combat frigate. It can shield or armor tank, just (gasp), not as well as the specialized shield and armor races. It's weapons are capless with damage selectability. But most importantly with a choice of a utility high it can serve in the tackle role better then the other combat frigates. It is a jack of all trades and a master of none. That is quintessential Minmatar.

If you want to argue that a 4-4-2 slot ship with a tighter fitting grid is better... I was looking at 125mm AC and a named MSE on SISSI. I liked the Atron alot better tbh.


too bad the devs agree with me. But thanks for your opinion.


Fine and good. They need to strip off that utility high and give it an extra mid to go along with any tanking bonus then. In which case, is it even a rifter anymore? Good luck killing drones without a tracking bonus btw.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-07-25 17:45:11 UTC
if I want high tracking I'll use the slasher. why would i want the rifter to be the best at everything? ust in line with every race, for the future of the game. For players who will never know the old

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Rip Marley
MANPENIS
#48 - 2012-07-28 04:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Marley
Active tank bonus's are fairly terrible.


Shield boost bonus only helps local shield boosting


Resist bonus improves local shield boosting almost as much as the active tank bonus, it also gives more EHP and improves remote reps as well.


I'd like to see a lot of those active tank boni removed personally, not more of my favorite ships getting it shoehorned on. Imagine how much better a Hyperion would be with a resist bonus instead of that damned armor rep one.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-08-05 01:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
I'm betting the bonuses stay the same and it gets a small speed bump and another mid slot.

So if the Rifter does get a fourth mid slot, which would seem plausible if it's to become the other shield tanker, my question is this.....





Would you, the community, prefer to lose a low or a high?
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-08-05 02:11:30 UTC
Rip Marley wrote:
Active tank bonus's are fairly terrible.


Shield boost bonus only helps local shield boosting


Resist bonus improves local shield boosting almost as much as the active tank bonus, it also gives more EHP and improves remote reps as well.


I'd like to see a lot of those active tank boni removed personally, not more of my favorite ships getting it shoehorned on. Imagine how much better a Hyperion would be with a resist bonus instead of that damned armor rep one.


maybe active repper bunoes need to be far more effective? what if they also reduced cap need by 50%? or fitting?

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