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Effective Tier 1 (non faction, etc) L4 Battleships

Author
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#21 - 2012-07-26 11:37:20 UTC
Ehrghiez wrote:
The other day I presented a question in regards to whether or not cross training from Gallente platforms and into a Raven for running missions would be efficient in the long run. After having put some thought into my own question and some of the answers I had received I figured I would expand onto my own question(s).

To note - I have roughly 6.7mil sp. I currently mission in a Domi using a fitting that boosts sentry drone damage. I can only use T1 Sentries atm. I enjoy my Domi, but I have considered cross training away from Turrets and into Missiles due to inconsistent dps.

To elaborate on what I believe to be effective; Something with consistent dps and speedy mission times. I recently completed Angel Extravaganza (minus the bonus wave.) With salvage time included it took around an hour and a half. I've heard of people doing that in less than half the amount of time it took me.

So to the meat and bones of this question. What is the most efficient Tier 1, non faction battleship for completing level 4 missions?

Cross training into another ship is not a problem. I have minimal skills for missile platforms, but after playing around with EVEMon and EFT I can fit myself into a Raven with a respectable tank and DPS in 30 days (give or take a few days.) Within that same 30 days I'll have completed my training for T2 Sentries.

I refer to cross training into a Raven due to it being on the complete other side of the board in terms of Skill training, not because I am solely stuck on the idea of flying one.

I have right around 1m SP in Drone skills, 2.5m in Gunnery and 1m in Mechanics. Im not sure if that helps any, but there it is.

Feedback is much appreciated =)



Honestly the Domi is one of the best mission runners pre-faction/pirate ships. A Sentry fit Domi melts through missions like lighter through some crack rocks. You can use faction sentry drones until you get t2 since, as a pve mission runner, you should NEVER lose a drone. They do about 50 less dps than their t2 variant and save you from having to train for a month for one item. As your gunnery skills get better the missions only go faster. You have to make sure you find the bottom line on tanking to maximize your dps though.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#22 - 2012-07-26 16:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
So the Maelstrom faces the same problem that the Golem does - great damage up close and a bit too much waiting to get into range to deal effective damage.


I played around with EFT some more: 4.2km optimal and 48.4km falloff (with +5% falloff implant, 2 TEIIs, 1TCII+script, RF EMP).

And 72.xkm falloff with barrage for Angel missions.

I think that soundly beats the Golems pitiful 40km/60km. And, in contrast to the Golem, the Maelstrom won't have any trouble vaporizing frigates and cruisers if their angular velocity is low enough.

Having just switched to a Vargur, I really enjoy this ability. AE or DoD spider drones? With the Golem, it's "get out the drones and wait for them to slowly chew through the two spider drones; with the Vargur, it's "start locking the two little pests at ~80km and pop them with one shot each when the lock completes at ~40km".

It's a bit ironic that the Golem, being a "we don't do drones" Caldari ship, is the only marauder that requires drones to function properly.

But now I'm a bit too far beyond the original topic of this thread.


I think you're very invested with your mission battleship choices. This is what I saw with the various mission ships:

Golem:
- Sometimes the rats spawn out of range. This generally sucks but if you're spamming triggers it's generally not a big deal.
- Sometimes you miscount volleys, which is why I always preferred 2x missile velocity rigs to the vel + time rig combo. I was immensely gratified when that caught on. :)
- Sometimes you lose a painter cycle to falloff, which can make it take 2 volleys to kill a BC. :(
- You have to manage a rack of painters, which is quite a lot of multitasking if you're trying to loot+salvage too.
- Looting/Salvaging is generally easy because you're pretty well guaranteed that everything's in tractor range.
- The damage application is stellar against anything above destroyer sized.
- Pure damage type selection is great.
- Ammo is moderately expensive but overall it's just not a big deal. The real problem is that torps are just freaking enormous and so supply runs kinda suck.
- For whatever reason I didn't have much trouble with the Golem and jamming rats. I think it's because missions vs Guristas have relatively few jamming rats where Caldari State missions have entire ******* waves of jamming rats.

Vargur:
- Sensor strength means fighting against Caldari State and Guristas really sucks. It's very, worthwhile to stack 2x ECCM in place of your 2 TCs.
- You can really feel the damage reduction at range. You can mitigate the problem by spamming all the frigates.
- Caldari State, Guristas, certain drone missions, etc spawn at range and have high explosive resists. But, it was still a better choice to use Barrage than faction ammo.
- Damage type selection isn't as nice as I'd really like. Specifically the lack of a high damage kin heavy ammo kinda hurts.
- Faction ammo with an AC Vargur is actually somewhat reasonable in all respects. I didn't generally use faction ammo because transporting it to Stain via wormholes was kinda annoying.
- Tracking disruption (Sansha mostly, maybe Amarr too?) is kinda annoying...

Maelstrom:
- Just like the Vargur, except with worse range.
- The problems with damage type selection hurt a lot more because you're forced into Barrage earlier.
- Faction ammo with the Maelstrom is quite expensive.

Domi:
- Missions against Serpentis with their heavy damping are hiiilarious. Eat a drone, jerks!
- Sentry drones tie you down - sometimes this is a big deal when there's gates and sometimes it isn't a big deal.
- I've seen both Ogres and Gardes kill one ship and then immediately volley the trigger. That's always fun when you're running a full gank domi because they're a bit thin.
- Don't underestimate your gun damage - it's critical to timely mission completion.
- The Domi is great for AFK missioning.

Tengu:
- OMG you use so many missiles... so many... so so many...
- Fury or T1 missiles, faction is pure ******* madness.
- Damage type selection makes shooting EM rats kinda crappy.
- Poor damage application against frigs and no drones to help out. It's generally more worthwhile to fit a web than a painter due to cycle times and the range frigs orbit at.
- It's fast and agile with a great tank.

Meh, I could probably go on but it's almost time to officially start working.

You're obviously way more emotionally invested in your mission ships than I am, so you win! Maelstrom / Vargur is better than Tengu, Golem, CNR, Domi, Mach, Nightmare, etc against all enemies and have no down sides!

-Liang

Ed: PS, sort your overview on transversal in a turret ship. Then snipe the frigs with low transversal. :)

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-07-26 16:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
I love how a Tengu keeps getting mentioned in a Battleship thread.

How is it that CCP aren't fixing this ship/weapon system? Roll

Personally I roll a Tempest Fleet Issue for the lulz.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#24 - 2012-07-26 16:53:37 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I love how a Tengu keeps getting mentioned in a Battleship thread.

How is it that CCP aren't fixing this ship/weapon system? Roll

Personally I roll a Tempest Fleet Issue for the lulz.


What fit are you rolling with? I kept thinking I wanted to try a nano torp Fleet Typhoon for giggles. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-07-26 19:29:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I love how a Tengu keeps getting mentioned in a Battleship thread.

How is it that CCP aren't fixing this ship/weapon system? Roll

Personally I roll a Tempest Fleet Issue for the lulz.


What fit are you rolling with? I kept thinking I wanted to try a nano torp Fleet Typhoon for giggles. :)

-Liang


Probably not the greatest, but gets the job done.... eventually.

Tempest Fleet Issue.

High Slots:
6x800mm Auto-Cannon 'Scout'
2xSmall Tractor Beam I

Mid Slots:
Republic Fleet X-Large Shield Booster.
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II (this one I am not sure of. Omni resist aren't that attractive in PvE...)
Mission Hardener II
Mission Hardener II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

Low Slots:
3xTracking Enhancer II
3xGryostabilizer II
Nanofibre Internal Structure II

Rigs:
Large Capacitor Control Unit I (also not sure about these rigs either...)

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#26 - 2012-07-26 19:52:37 UTC
Nice, thanks! Looks like a fun little setup. A bit nano with some gank out of those autocannons. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-07-26 20:58:51 UTC
Keep in mind that it is a Tempest, not a Typhoon though.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#28 - 2012-07-26 21:01:13 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Keep in mind that it is a Tempest, not a Typhoon though.


Yeah, I know. It still looks like fun. Well, as much fun as L4 missioning can be.... ;-)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Ehrghiez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-07-26 21:36:52 UTC
How about a case for the Machariel? I continue to see and hear about it and how great of a mission runner it is. I actually youtubed some L4 blitz's with it. Kind of seems a bit high risk. Is there a case for the Mach?

Bleep blop...Bloop..Blip..

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#30 - 2012-07-26 21:40:16 UTC
Ehrghiez wrote:
How about a case for the Machariel? I continue to see and hear about it and how great of a mission runner it is. I actually youtubed some L4 blitz's with it. Kind of seems a bit high risk. Is there a case for the Mach?


Yup. It's my personal favorite for running L4s when I can be asked to do so. It throws incredible damage point blank and is fast enough to balance enough range to mitigate damage while still staying close enough not to lose much to falloff. They're on the pricey side of course but one will pay for itself.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#31 - 2012-07-27 06:01:09 UTC
Ehrghiez wrote:
How about a case for the Machariel? I continue to see and hear about it and how great of a mission runner it is. I actually youtubed some L4 blitz's with it. Kind of seems a bit high risk. Is there a case for the Mach?


"non faction, etc".

So ... not in this thread. Even though it is without doubt a stellar mission runner.
Xhaiden Ora
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-07-27 09:29:16 UTC
Stick with the Domi or pick up the Megathron if you want a more hands on ship. It takes a looooong time to flesh out Battleship skills and jumping from Gallente ( Armour, Turrets ) to Caldari ( Shields, Missiles ) is literally starting over your training completely from scratch.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-07-27 11:00:23 UTC
Xhaiden Ora wrote:
Stick with the Domi or pick up the Megathron if you want a more hands on ship. It takes a looooong time to flesh out Battleship skills and jumping from Gallente ( Armour, Turrets ) to Caldari ( Shields, Missiles ) is literally starting over your training completely from scratch.



And the good thing about both the Megathron and Dominix is that if you want an upgrade, you can get the Navy Issue of either one.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Line Pettersen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-07-27 11:50:22 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
You keep talking about the Raven, so I'm assuming you mean T1 (tech 1). The most efficient non-faction BS has traditionally been the Raven, but I'd put money on a properly skilled Domi beating it out. Your particular problem is either overtanking or SP.

It will take you months before cross training a Raven will meet/exceed the extra performance that dumping more SP into your Domi will get you.

-Liang


This, it could not be more true. And to add to this, a Domi is a great AFKing ship too, meaning you can do more missions while sitting around watching TV or whatever.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-07-27 14:20:44 UTC
Great posting in this thread by Liang and everyone else! Picked up a few things myself.
Ehrghiez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-07-27 21:22:39 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
Great posting in this thread by Liang and everyone else! Picked up a few things myself.



Couldn't have said it better myself.

Bleep blop...Bloop..Blip..

dowens504
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-07-28 00:17:58 UTC
I know the title says no faction ships but a navy Armageddon can be a good mission boat with room for a flight of sentries and lights, and isnt too bad price wise compared to the current prices on tier 3 ships. Given that it is a laser boat they are a bit more restricted than the other races in what pirates they can be optimal in regards to damage type.
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