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Ancillary Shield Booster
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Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-07-26 17:38:26 UTC
ma perke wrote:
short sighted carebares...

if a 250M cynabal can not kill vexor&rupture why should he fly it?! This ASB concept is wrong, because ratio between dps/tank is in favor of tank! Lets get dinosaurs now??


"IF I SPEND MOAR ISK I SHOULD WIN, RITE GAIZ?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-yaQg4ZDdo

Rifters kill Revelations. Catalysts kill Hulks. Stabbers kill Dramiels. Drakes kill Vindicators.

**** happens. Your ISK is meaningless. You can't buy your way to the top. Go home.

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#22 - 2012-07-26 18:04:48 UTC
They are a bit OP for the large ones but the mediums and smalls seem ok, if not underpowered.

nom nom
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#23 - 2012-07-26 18:12:17 UTC
Shield PvP has been in the bottom of the barrel for several years. It's nice to see it have a life of it's own for a season or two.

I have flown a few ASB fits and they do exactly as advertised. Great tank for...limited time. Certainly not OP.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#24 - 2012-07-26 21:29:19 UTC
If I wanted to deal with "bubble-heal" I'd go play WoW.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#25 - 2012-07-26 21:53:58 UTC
Elvis Fett wrote:
For me the problem with the ASB is it makes normal shield boosters totally irrelevant. Currently the ASB reps about 60% more shield than a normal T2 shield booster. That is something I just don't understand, it seems backwards. If the ASB and normal shield booster both gave the same amount of shield, the ASB would still be superior. With a normal shield booster you usually need a cap battery in one of your mid slots to run it, with the ASB that cap battery is not necessary giving you an extra mid slot for more tank. The ASB is also neut proof, which is a pretty big deal in both pvp and pve. Actually I have heard a couple people claim to be running lvl 5 missions in active shield tanked ships with ASBs. I am too scared to lose a BS PvE'ing to try for myself, but it seems plasuible

Instead of nerfing the ASB into the ground, i rather see normal shield boosters get a big buff. Or possibly just switch the two's shield repping amount so the normal SB reps 60% more shield as the ASB. Either way large fleets are still going to buffer tank because they have logi. Increasing the effectiveness of active tanking just gives smaller gangs a better chance of engaging a larger gang and coming out on top. Overall I like the idea of the ASB, I just don't like seeing it being the only effective way of active tanking for PvP.

Normal shield boosters were totally irrelevant beforehand unless you wanted to use boosters, links, and a faction/deadspace booster. And even with all that, theres a good chance you'd still probably die in a fire to a single neuting ship before you could kill it. The issue isn't that ASBs are overpowered, the issue is that active shield tanking beforehand was hilariously underpowered and now active shield tanking finally has some relevance.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#26 - 2012-07-26 22:42:35 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Elvis Fett wrote:
For me the problem with the ASB is it makes normal shield boosters totally irrelevant. Currently the ASB reps about 60% more shield than a normal T2 shield booster. That is something I just don't understand, it seems backwards. If the ASB and normal shield booster both gave the same amount of shield, the ASB would still be superior. With a normal shield booster you usually need a cap battery in one of your mid slots to run it, with the ASB that cap battery is not necessary giving you an extra mid slot for more tank. The ASB is also neut proof, which is a pretty big deal in both pvp and pve. Actually I have heard a couple people claim to be running lvl 5 missions in active shield tanked ships with ASBs. I am too scared to lose a BS PvE'ing to try for myself, but it seems plasuible

Instead of nerfing the ASB into the ground, i rather see normal shield boosters get a big buff. Or possibly just switch the two's shield repping amount so the normal SB reps 60% more shield as the ASB. Either way large fleets are still going to buffer tank because they have logi. Increasing the effectiveness of active tanking just gives smaller gangs a better chance of engaging a larger gang and coming out on top. Overall I like the idea of the ASB, I just don't like seeing it being the only effective way of active tanking for PvP.

Normal shield boosters were totally irrelevant beforehand unless you wanted to use boosters, links, and a faction/deadspace booster. And even with all that, theres a good chance you'd still probably die in a fire to a single neuting ship before you could kill it. The issue isn't that ASBs are overpowered, the issue is that active shield tanking beforehand was hilariously underpowered and now active shield tanking finally has some relevance.


Because armor reps don't need cap.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-07-26 22:45:34 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
The only fix they need is to forbid reloading one booster while another is boosting. So if you decide to reload one of your boosters, all of them go into the 60secs reload time even if they are fully loaded. Lol

You are in favour of a similar change to cap boosters also? You know so they can't run both reppers at once.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Rigel Vex
Hull Warning
#28 - 2012-07-26 22:58:09 UTC
ASB's are perfect. They take skill to use and give you a great tank for a limited time. It truly awesome seeing shield ships out on the solo front again. Stop complaining and enjoy it. If you can't kill some1 thats ASB fit then you're flying wrong :P
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#29 - 2012-07-26 23:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Rigel Vex wrote:
ASB's are perfect. They take skill to use and give you a great tank for a limited time. It truly awesome seeing shield ships out on the solo front again. Stop complaining and enjoy it. If you can't kill some1 thats ASB fit then you're flying wrong :P


1) How is there "skill" in pressing ALT-F1? (or F1, depending on where you place the module in your HUD)
2) You know what else gives you a great tank for a limited time? Paladin bubble.
3) I solo in shield ships just fine, as do others I know.
4) If it's so easy to kill someone that's ASB fit then why are so many people fitting them? And why you defending them? *chinrub*

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#30 - 2012-07-26 23:40:06 UTC
Quote:
How is there "skill" in pressing ALT-F1? (or F1, depending on where you place the module in your HUD)

Timing your boosts to extract the maximum effectiveness from your ASB is non-trivial. If you just run it until it's dry, you're going to waste a lot of 'virtual' ehp.
Rigel Vex
Hull Warning
#31 - 2012-07-27 00:05:13 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Quote:
How is there "skill" in pressing ALT-F1? (or F1, depending on where you place the module in your HUD)

Timing your boosts to extract the maximum effectiveness from your ASB is non-trivial. If you just run it until it's dry, you're going to waste a lot of 'virtual' ehp.


^ this.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#32 - 2012-07-27 00:07:30 UTC
You can read the same "timing" argument on the WoW forums concerning Paladin bubble.

Okay, so if you don't time your ASB a certain way you'll be less OP. My heart bleeds.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#33 - 2012-07-27 00:13:42 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
You can read the same "timing" argument on the WoW forums concerning Paladin bubble.

Okay, so if you don't time your ASB a certain way you'll be less OP. My heart bleeds.

If you read the wow forums, you should probably stick complaining about how underpowered your Blood Elf Prostitute is on the wow forums.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#34 - 2012-07-27 00:17:28 UTC
Dynast wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
You can read the same "timing" argument on the WoW forums concerning Paladin bubble.

Okay, so if you don't time your ASB a certain way you'll be less OP. My heart bleeds.

If you read the wow forums, you should probably stick complaining about how underpowered your Blood Elf Prostitute is on the wow forums.


Okay, I've read this about 7 times now and I still can't figure out what you're trying to say. I feel like the sentence is missing a word or two that would complete the puzzle.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#35 - 2012-07-27 00:32:47 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Dynast wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
You can read the same "timing" argument on the WoW forums concerning Paladin bubble.

Okay, so if you don't time your ASB a certain way you'll be less OP. My heart bleeds.

If you read the wow forums, you should probably stick complaining about how underpowered your Blood Elf Prostitute is on the wow forums.


Okay, I've read this about 7 times now and I still can't figure out what you're trying to say. I feel like the sentence is missing a word or two that would complete the puzzle.


The implied meaning is that WoW is crap and you should know better than use it as a reference, as admitting you follow it suggests that you, yourself, are crap.
Rigel Vex
Hull Warning
#36 - 2012-07-27 00:44:27 UTC
Dynast wrote:

The implied meaning is that WoW is crap and you should know better than use it as a reference, as admitting you follow it suggests that you, yourself, are crap.


WoW is not crap! ...It's just for 14 year olds.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#37 - 2012-07-27 00:57:01 UTC
Dynast wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Dynast wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
You can read the same "timing" argument on the WoW forums concerning Paladin bubble.

Okay, so if you don't time your ASB a certain way you'll be less OP. My heart bleeds.

If you read the wow forums, you should probably stick complaining about how underpowered your Blood Elf Prostitute is on the wow forums.


Okay, I've read this about 7 times now and I still can't figure out what you're trying to say. I feel like the sentence is missing a word or two that would complete the puzzle.


The implied meaning is that WoW is crap and you should know better than use it as a reference, as admitting you follow it suggests that you, yourself, are crap.


Oh okay, so just trolling then.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#38 - 2012-07-27 01:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheynan
-oh Iove the forums-
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#39 - 2012-07-27 01:10:26 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Sheynan wrote:
The only fix they need is to forbid reloading one booster while another is boosting. So if you decide to reload one of your boosters, all of them go into the 60secs reload time even if they are fully loaded. Lol

You are in favour of a similar change to cap boosters also? You know so they can't run both reppers at once.



?

(I'm just going to leave a simple question mark here because I have no idea what you mean, are you speaking of normal cap boosters and about what kind of reppers ?)



The only thing I wanted to adress was the possibility of perma-tanking with multiple ASBs. Which is a role of traditional shield boosters and not ASBs and thus should be eliminated.
There should always be a "reload timeframe" where no ASBs are running and the ship is ****** if the opponent is stil alive and shooting.
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#40 - 2012-07-27 01:19:24 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Elvis Fett wrote:
For me the problem with the ASB is it makes normal shield boosters totally irrelevant. Currently the ASB reps about 60% more shield than a normal T2 shield booster. That is something I just don't understand, it seems backwards. If the ASB and normal shield booster both gave the same amount of shield, the ASB would still be superior. With a normal shield booster you usually need a cap battery in one of your mid slots to run it, with the ASB that cap battery is not necessary giving you an extra mid slot for more tank. The ASB is also neut proof, which is a pretty big deal in both pvp and pve. Actually I have heard a couple people claim to be running lvl 5 missions in active shield tanked ships with ASBs. I am too scared to lose a BS PvE'ing to try for myself, but it seems plasuible

Instead of nerfing the ASB into the ground, i rather see normal shield boosters get a big buff. Or possibly just switch the two's shield repping amount so the normal SB reps 60% more shield as the ASB. Either way large fleets are still going to buffer tank because they have logi. Increasing the effectiveness of active tanking just gives smaller gangs a better chance of engaging a larger gang and coming out on top. Overall I like the idea of the ASB, I just don't like seeing it being the only effective way of active tanking for PvP.

Normal shield boosters were totally irrelevant beforehand unless you wanted to use boosters, links, and a faction/deadspace booster. And even with all that, theres a good chance you'd still probably die in a fire to a single neuting ship before you could kill it. The issue isn't that ASBs are overpowered, the issue is that active shield tanking beforehand was hilariously underpowered and now active shield tanking finally has some relevance.


Because armor reps don't need cap.


Ships that Armor tank generally tend to have utility mids so you can fit dual cap boosters of appropriate size without any problem in addition to a prop mod and two tackle mods.

Try doing that on a shield ship and you'll quickly see why active shield tanking has been underpowered for so long.

The moar you cry the less you pee