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AFK Mining with the new mining barge changes
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Quentin Marshall
#1 - 2012-07-26 20:25:11 UTC
So if I am afk mining, it would seem that the Retriever is a better option to do it than the Covetor given that it has a bigger cargohold. Would people agree or disagree?


Retriever: Ore hold: 30,000 m3
Covetor: Ore hold: 7,000 m3

Also, why did they decide to add an ore hold for the new patch? Was it to help minimize the can flipping that would occur with jet can mining?
Dave Stark
#2 - 2012-07-26 20:33:05 UTC
disagree, because by the time you fill the 7k ore hold the asteroids have popped and you need to target new asteroids and start your strips again. also the covetor has a higher yield.

next stupid question?
General Koen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-26 20:36:01 UTC
For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)
Dave Stark
#4 - 2012-07-26 20:37:18 UTC
General Koen wrote:
For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)


yep 30k cago is going to help afk mine when you've only got 7k worth of ore targeted!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#5 - 2012-07-26 20:54:10 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
General Koen wrote:
For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)


yep 30k cago is going to help afk mine when you've only got 7k worth of ore targeted!

So do not target 7k cu m of ore. Survey scanners are your friend. Also note that now any ship can be an ice miner. You make it a bonused ice miner by adding the ice mining rig. And ice roids rarely pop.

So the real afk mining option will be a well tanked up ice mining vessel. Ice and ice products are going to fall in price......

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Quentin Marshall
#6 - 2012-07-26 21:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Quentin Marshall
General Koen wrote:
For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)


Yeah, my preference is for afk and I will sacrifice some of the extra yield that a covetor gives. Regrettably the 2nd poster doesn't know how to target roids that will yield more than 7k yield. LOL.
Dave Stark
#7 - 2012-07-26 21:04:49 UTC
Quentin Marshall wrote:
General Koen wrote:
For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)


Yeah, my preference is for afk and I will sacrifice some of the extra yield that a covetor gives. Regrettably the 2nd poster doesn't know how to target roids that will yield more than 7k yield. LOL.


considering the op doesn't know what ship to use for what job...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-07-26 21:10:15 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
yep 30k cago is going to help afk mine when you've only got 7k worth of ore targeted!


You probably want to leave Caldari space. Or search for less populated systems.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-07-27 06:35:34 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Quentin Marshall wrote:
General Koen wrote:
For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)


Yeah, my preference is for afk and I will sacrifice some of the extra yield that a covetor gives. Regrettably the 2nd poster doesn't know how to target roids that will yield more than 7k yield. LOL.


considering the op doesn't know what ship to use for what job...


Well you obviously know less then the original poster so just keep your ignorant comments to yourself.

The Retriever is the best full on afk mining barge because of its low price. Naturally the yield isn't very high but the ship/fittings can be paid off with roughly 1/2 hour of mining. And with the ore hold increase you can get away with only looking at your screen every 15 - 30 minutes (based on roid field).

The mackinaw is the best idling barge. it has a huge ore hold and 2nd best mining yield, but requires 7 - 8 hours of mining to pay off. And if you are simply idling (still paying attention to screen but doing other things) you can use mining drones II to increase your yield.
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries
The OORT Cloud
#10 - 2012-07-27 07:46:12 UTC
Third best yield
Best to worst

Hulk - Covetor - Mackinaw - Retriever - Skiff - Procurer
Dave Stark
#11 - 2012-07-27 07:54:50 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Quentin Marshall wrote:
General Koen wrote:
For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)


Yeah, my preference is for afk and I will sacrifice some of the extra yield that a covetor gives. Regrettably the 2nd poster doesn't know how to target roids that will yield more than 7k yield. LOL.


considering the op doesn't know what ship to use for what job...


Well you obviously know less then the original poster so just keep your ignorant comments to yourself.


haha, amusing.

considering the size of the ore bay is largely irrelevant to afk mining due to the fact that most asteroids in high sec pop rather quickly it's astounding how ignorant other players are.

you're only going to be able to go afk for great stretches of time mining ice, otherwise the only benefit of using the mackinaw/retriever is the time between docking up to dump ore. you're still going to have to be at the computer to change asteroids etc; as such if you've not got a phobia of jetcans a covetor or a hulk is the superior choice.

also in it's current state; unless you need tank (mining in null (which you should in a fleet for bonuses etc meaning you should be using a hulk)) then the mackinaw isn't worth it's price tag after yesterday's nerf.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#12 - 2012-07-27 07:59:58 UTC
Yield

Hulk - Covetor - Mackinaw - Retriever - Skiff - Procurer

Tank

Skiff - Procurer(?)- Mackinaw - Retriever - Hulk - Covetor

Ore Hold

Mackinaw - Retriever - Skiff - Procurer - Hulk - Covetor


(Not overly sure on placement for procurer, as I have seen very little stats for it). Is the Covetor really the softest tank of them all?


I think I agree with what many others are predicting. The Mack will be the new high sec AFK, solo and dual miner of choice, The Hulk will be the multi-account or ship / orca miner of choice, and the Skiff will be the low sec and 0.0 beastly tank miner.


I may actually try out a pair of macks for myself and my alt in place of my Hulk / Orca, see how it turns out.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#13 - 2012-07-27 08:01:13 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
*snip*
also in it's current state; unless you need tank (mining in null (which you should in a fleet for bonuses etc meaning you should be using a hulk)) then the mackinaw isn't worth it's price tag after yesterday's nerf.



Ah. What nerf did the mack take? I have not been keeping up to date.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Dave Stark
#14 - 2012-07-27 08:03:36 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
The Mack will be the new high sec AFK, solo and dual miner of choice.


not unless there are some changes for it on sisi today.

the ore bay has less than 1 cycle of extra room over the covetor, and with the requirement being exhumers I it's only 1% yield improvement, and when you're popping roids in 2 cycles with or without an extra 1% yield it's irrelevant. even at exhumers V it's only a 5% yield improvement, again almost unnoticed when asteroids pop so quickly. in high sec you won't even need the extra tank the mackinaw offers, a flight of t2 drones is more than sufficient for dealing with 0.7 and higher belt rats.

the mackinaw is woefully under performing for it's price tag at the moment.
Dave Stark
#15 - 2012-07-27 08:05:06 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
*snip*
also in it's current state; unless you need tank (mining in null (which you should in a fleet for bonuses etc meaning you should be using a hulk)) then the mackinaw isn't worth it's price tag after yesterday's nerf.



Ah. What nerf did the mack take? I have not been keeping up to date.


the mack had it's ore bay dropped from ~37k to ~31k, and to compound issues the ret went from like ~25k to ~28k, the difference is less than 1 cycle of ore. the only upgrade is the tankability of the ship; which in high sec is irrelevant for belt rats.
as pointed out the payback time for a ret is tiny therefore why risk an expensive ship when the ret is practically the same ship for a fraction of the price?
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries
The OORT Cloud
#16 - 2012-07-27 09:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Draconyx
Dave stark wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
*snip*
also in it's current state; unless you need tank (mining in null (which you should in a fleet for bonuses etc meaning you should be using a hulk)) then the mackinaw isn't worth it's price tag after yesterday's nerf.



Ah. What nerf did the mack take? I have not been keeping up to date.


the mack had it's ore bay dropped from ~37k to ~31k, and to compound issues the ret went from like ~25k to ~28k, the difference is less than 1 cycle of ore. the only upgrade is the tankability of the ship; which in high sec is irrelevant for belt rats.
as pointed out the payback time for a ret is tiny therefore why risk an expensive ship when the ret is practically the same ship for a fraction of the price?


I still don't see what the problem is, if you are in null you can use a Mack for the extra tank if you solo or 1 to 3 ships. Anything above that use Hulks + hauler
For high-sec dweller the retriever will become the ship of choice for 1 to 3 ships.
it is a lot cheaper.

By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining.

So if you are in High-sec use retrievers for ice and ore unless you have dedicated hauler and have 3 or more miners
And for Null it is the Mac with the exact same setup.

This is not a problem if anything people should be happy.
Although I still believe the MACK needs a little more CPU for a proper fit.
Dave Stark
#17 - 2012-07-27 09:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Draconyx wrote:
By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining.


the hulk and mack are not equal for ice.

in fact, they are not equal for anything.
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries
The OORT Cloud
#18 - 2012-07-27 09:36:58 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Draconyx wrote:
By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining.


the hulk and mack are not equal for ice.

in fact, they are not equal for anything.



Go fit them up on the test server you will find they are the same.
OR let me save you the hassle,

Hulk cycle 236.01s or 14 cycles an hour and 3 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks
Mack cycle 170.01 or 21 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks
Ret cycle 178.96 or 20 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 40 Blocks
Those are without fleet bonuses.
Dave Stark
#19 - 2012-07-27 09:44:18 UTC
Draconyx wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Draconyx wrote:
By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining.


the hulk and mack are not equal for ice.

in fact, they are not equal for anything.



Go fit them up on the test server you will find they are the same.
OR let me save you the hassle,

Hulk cycle 236.01s or 14 cycles an hour and 3 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks
Mack cycle 170.01 or 21 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks
Ret cycle 178.96 or 20 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 40 Blocks
Those are without fleet bonuses.




go and see any of the other threads, me and others have done the maths; and all agree on our maths, that the hulk mines more than the mackinaw, which mines more than the skiff.
fleet bonuses do not favour one ship over another. the simple fact is the exhumer bonus for hulks outweighs the third ihu of the mackinaw. the hulk out mines every ship on every ore every time.

the hulk will pull in 75 ice per hour, the mack pulls in 69 ice an hour, and the skiff pulls in 63 ice per hour. the current mackinaw pulls in 75 ice per hour as well. ice yield is unchanged if you bother swapping ship, if you don't then you'll mine less ice.
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries
The OORT Cloud
#20 - 2012-07-27 09:50:39 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Draconyx wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Draconyx wrote:
By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining.


the hulk and mack are not equal for ice.

in fact, they are not equal for anything.



Go fit them up on the test server you will find they are the same.
OR let me save you the hassle,

Hulk cycle 236.01s or 14 cycles an hour and 3 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks
Mack cycle 170.01 or 21 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks
Ret cycle 178.96 or 20 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 40 Blocks
Those are without fleet bonuses.




go and see any of the other threads, me and others have done the maths; and all agree on our maths, that the hulk mines more than the mackinaw, which mines more than the skiff.
fleet bonuses do not favour one ship over another. the simple fact is the exhumer bonus for hulks outweighs the third ihu of the mackinaw. the hulk out mines every ship on every ore every time.

the hulk will pull in 75 ice per hour, the mack pulls in 69 ice an hour, and the skiff pulls in 63 ice per hour. the current mackinaw pulls in 75 ice per hour as well. ice yield is unchanged if you bother swapping ship, if you don't then you'll mine less ice.



Well guess what your math is wrong or what you are using for numbers is different then what test server is using.
Cause those numbers listed above come right off of fitted ships on the test server.
If you don't believe me then go check for yourself.
I don't know why your numbers aren't coming up the same but right now on SISI the Mack and the Hulk are putting out the same Yield of ice per hour.
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