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Pirate ships with HUGE damage bonuses
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Jonas Land
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-07-26 18:20:25 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:

Some of those pirate frigates can do in excess of 500 dps... You can kill a battleship with them... how can a frigate doing 200 dps compete with that?

If you take 2 pilots, maxed skills on their platform of choice... one in a Hawk, one in a Daredevil... the Hawk doesnt stand a chance. And since SOLO PvP is mainly going to be centered around frigates... Well? Where's the balance at?


You are literally clueless about frig PVP. And really, PVP in general. A few comments:
- A 500 DPS frigate is a paper tiger with almost no range.
- I've seen a battleship downed by way less than 200 DPS. I saw a Sentinel do it once. :)
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk/Daredevil is a stalemate. The Daredevil isn't likely to kill the Hawk and the Hawk isn't likely to pin the Daredevil down because of the web bonus.
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk / Enyo is a dead Enyo. :)
- Solo PVP happens in whatever ship you happen to be in. I've done solo PVP in everything from noob ships to carriers.

If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang



You are nothing but a troll looking to argue.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#22 - 2012-07-26 18:22:10 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:

Some of those pirate frigates can do in excess of 500 dps... You can kill a battleship with them... how can a frigate doing 200 dps compete with that?

If you take 2 pilots, maxed skills on their platform of choice... one in a Hawk, one in a Daredevil... the Hawk doesnt stand a chance. And since SOLO PvP is mainly going to be centered around frigates... Well? Where's the balance at?


You are literally clueless about frig PVP. And really, PVP in general. A few comments:
- A 500 DPS frigate is a paper tiger with almost no range.
- I've seen a battleship downed by way less than 200 DPS. I saw a Sentinel do it once. :)
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk/Daredevil is a stalemate. The Daredevil isn't likely to kill the Hawk and the Hawk isn't likely to pin the Daredevil down because of the web bonus.
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk / Enyo is a dead Enyo. :)
- Solo PVP happens in whatever ship you happen to be in. I've done solo PVP in everything from noob ships to carriers.

If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang


You are nothing but a troll looking to argue.


Come to Amamake tonight - I'm looking to make my 7th PVP video, Amamake Fun VI and you'd make a great member of the cast!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jonas Land
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-07-26 18:25:01 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:

Some of those pirate frigates can do in excess of 500 dps... You can kill a battleship with them... how can a frigate doing 200 dps compete with that?

If you take 2 pilots, maxed skills on their platform of choice... one in a Hawk, one in a Daredevil... the Hawk doesnt stand a chance. And since SOLO PvP is mainly going to be centered around frigates... Well? Where's the balance at?


You are literally clueless about frig PVP. And really, PVP in general. A few comments:
- A 500 DPS frigate is a paper tiger with almost no range.
- I've seen a battleship downed by way less than 200 DPS. I saw a Sentinel do it once. :)
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk/Daredevil is a stalemate. The Daredevil isn't likely to kill the Hawk and the Hawk isn't likely to pin the Daredevil down because of the web bonus.
- I'd say the most likely outcome of two competent pilots in a Hawk / Enyo is a dead Enyo. :)
- Solo PVP happens in whatever ship you happen to be in. I've done solo PVP in everything from noob ships to carriers.

If you're interested in solo PVP, why don't you swing by Amamake? :)

-Liang


You are nothing but a troll looking to argue.


Come to Amamake tonight - I'm looking to make my 7th PVP video, Amamake Fun VI and you'd make a great member of the cast!



reported for trolling :)... have a nice day.

-Liang
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#24 - 2012-07-26 18:27:03 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:

reported for trolling :)... have a nice day.


Disagreeing with a trivially incorrect viewpoint isn't trolling.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#25 - 2012-07-26 18:29:02 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ed: Also, why focus on the huge damage bonus with few launcher/turrets? Shouldn't you be looking at effective turrets/launchers?


You still haven't addressed this. And if you seriously thought Liang was trolling you, you've never been trolled.
Jonas Land
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-07-26 18:33:18 UTC
OK..... You two are missing the ENTIRE point of the post........


Why isnt there a missle platform pirate ship with huge damage bonuses anymore?

Jesus........ FOCUS PEOPLE
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#27 - 2012-07-26 18:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Jonas Land wrote:
OK..... You two are missing the ENTIRE point of the post........


Why isnt there a missle platform pirate ship with huge damage bonuses anymore?

Jesus........ FOCUS PEOPLE


Why do you want this when the real focus should be on effective hardpoints and overall PVP effectiveness, other than for homogeneity?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Sigras
Conglomo
#28 - 2012-07-26 18:37:29 UTC
ummm . . . the caldari navy hookbill would like to have a word with you . . .

As would the 10% damage buff theyre giving rockets and light missiles on the 8th
Jonas Land
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-07-26 18:38:35 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:
OK..... You two are missing the ENTIRE point of the post........


Why isnt there a missle platform pirate ship with huge damage bonuses anymore?

Jesus........ FOCUS PEOPLE


Why do you want this when the real focus should be on effective hardpoints and overall PVP effectiveness, other than for homogeneity?

-Liang





Again........ you're off topic.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#30 - 2012-07-26 18:40:40 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:

Again........ you're off topic.


It is not off topic to point out that a hardpoint + damage bonus is an effective hardpoint and that you should be focusing on that. Are you sure that reporting my post for trolling won't cause your own break from the forums? Wasting a moderator's time when you're actually the one trolling... tsk, tsk!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jonas Land
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-07-26 18:46:22 UTC
I suppose EVE is the gathering point for all people with ADD. The original post was talking about the initial damage bonus of the pirate ships just for having the skills to get in the ship and fly it around EVE. Forget the PvP, the skill based damage bonuses, effective hardpoints.....

The post was started to address the SOLE ISSUE of not having a pirate faction ship with a missle platform with 100-200% damage bonuses.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#32 - 2012-07-26 18:51:32 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:
I suppose EVE is the gathering point for all people with ADD. The original post was talking about the initial damage bonus of the pirate ships just for having the skills to get in the ship and fly it around EVE. Forget the PvP, the skill based damage bonuses, effective hardpoints.....

The post was started to address the SOLE ISSUE of not having a pirate faction ship with a missle platform with 100-200% damage bonuses.


So you're not actually complaining about the overall effectiveness of missile based PVP ships? You're just complaining that Eve isn't homogeneous enough?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jonas Land
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-07-26 18:52:23 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:
I suppose EVE is the gathering point for all people with ADD. The original post was talking about the initial damage bonus of the pirate ships just for having the skills to get in the ship and fly it around EVE. Forget the PvP, the skill based damage bonuses, effective hardpoints.....

The post was started to address the SOLE ISSUE of not having a pirate faction ship with a missle platform with 100-200% damage bonuses.


So you're not actually complaining about the overall effectiveness of missile based PVP ships? You're just complaining that Eve isn't homogeneous enough?

-Liang



See? You are here for the purpose of arguing.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#34 - 2012-07-26 18:55:12 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:

See? You are here for the purpose of arguing.


Please be specific. What you want seems to have changed repeatedly throughout the course of the thread. First you were saying that the lack of a HUGE DAMAGE BONUS gimps the ships and that you'd have to cross train to have an effective PVP ship. NOW you're claiming that it doesn't gimp the ship but you want one... just because?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#35 - 2012-07-26 18:55:42 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:
Basically.... The best thing i can do is completely retrain my toon to use guns...



Edited out the sarcastic part. And I'm not being sarcastic myself when I say: You say this like it's a bad thing.

If you think guns are better then why not train them?
You liked the Dram because it was the best ship flying, then go train the best DPS platform and fly it.
Imbalance can be overcome when every pilot can fly the same ships.
Jonas Land
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-07-26 18:55:49 UTC
But yes.... If you must argue... I am saying the game isnt 'homogeneous'. Since you feel the need for big words.
Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-07-26 18:55:58 UTC
Jonas Land wrote:
CCP preaches fair play and balance... really not seeing it.


This is absolutely false. In fact they preach against it on a regular basis. You will not see a missle based frig doing enyo size dps. The enyo is a short range ship that is locked into its damage type.

You are too focused on a special bonus when it doesn't matter at all. Its about effective turrets/launcher not special ship bonus.

Also the hawk is currently the best AF in the game. Flown correctly it will spank most other frigs. Gain real pvp experience before attempting to debate the finer points.
Jonas Land
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-07-26 19:00:47 UTC
Grog Drinker wrote:
Jonas Land wrote:
CCP preaches fair play and balance... really not seeing it.


This is absolutely false. In fact they preach against it on a regular basis. You will not see a missle based frig doing enyo size dps. The enyo is a short range ship that is locked into its damage type.

You are too focused on a special bonus when it doesn't matter at all. Its about effective turrets/launcher not special ship bonus.

Also the hawk is currently the best AF in the game. Flown correctly it will spank most other frigs. Gain real pvp experience before attempting to debate the finer points.



Actually I fly a Hawk and do very well with it... but the original qustion was basically....... Why is there no longer a missle platform frigate with large damage bonuses? Why did they take it out.... What if i just don't want to use guns? There was a pirate missle boat, and they changed it.... WHY?
Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-07-26 19:10:20 UTC
I would be surprised if the worm doesn't receive some form of damage buff in upcoming frigate balancing.

The "huge" damage bonuses really aren't all you make them out to be. A cruor with heat sink and its 100% bonus does barely over 200 dps. The succubus is under 250. The entire line of pirate frigates is in need of some work.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#40 - 2012-07-26 19:12:02 UTC
Grog Drinker wrote:
I would be surprised if the worm doesn't receive some form of damage buff in upcoming frigate balancing.

The "huge" damage bonuses really aren't all you make them out to be. A cruor with heat sink and its 100% bonus does barely over 200 dps. The succubus is under 250. The entire line of pirate frigates is in need of some work.


I'd love to see the Succubus and Worm get some rebalancing.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.