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Many dead in shooting at Batman premier in Denver...
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#221 - 2012-07-25 07:02:17 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I think that you're missing the point here.

Why owe a gun?

Self defense.

Self defense from what threat?

Any.

But, what's the most common threat around?

People who owe firearms.

But, what people?

ANY people. Everyone can owe a firearm and you never know who you're gonna meet.

So the reason why you need a weapon it's the American like you, who owe firearms because American like you owe guns.

Oh, you may say, "but, i am NOT a threat!" But then in your own words, "you don't know who will greet ya". And you are everybody else's "who will greet me?". So you are armed because of their arms, and they are armed because of your arms.

So all in all, American arm themselves because of armed American. And the more American arm themselves, the more American will have to worry about all those armed out there, thus they will keep arming themselves.



You have a citation for this interesting bit of data? I would really like to see a poll or something on reasons for owning a gun.


The whole point being that weapons for self defense trigger the need to defend from weapons just flew over your head, right?



I guess it did considering the only just over 30% of our nation owns a firearm meaning that an awful lot of people appear to be failing to get on the defense train. Of course this doesn't even include the fact that many of us have already stated what we use our weapons for in another thread, which did not even include this self defense that every one claims. But what would I, a gun owner, know compared to somebody on the other side of the world right? Right?

Thank you for your lack of sources.


Doh, it's tough to get through certain skulls...

ANY NUMBER of people who arm themselves for self-defense from armed foreigners become armed foreigners and thus a reason why ANY NUMBER of people will arm themselves for self-defense, thus feeding back a vicious circle.

It doesn't matters the number: becoming armed because of armed people is going to trigger the appearence of more armed people to arm against

Then it comes the point in which a certain share of armed people will be mass killers and a certain share of weapons will be used for crime.

For instace sake: If the chances of a firearm owner becoming a mass killer in country X where 1 in 50 million per year, then a country X with 50 million firearm owners would experience 1 mass killing per year, whereas country Y with 10 millon firearm owners would experience it each 5 years.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#222 - 2012-07-25 07:31:20 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I think that you're missing the point here.

Why owe a gun?

Self defense.

Self defense from what threat?

Any.

But, what's the most common threat around?

People who owe firearms.

But, what people?

ANY people. Everyone can owe a firearm and you never know who you're gonna meet.

So the reason why you need a weapon it's the American like you, who owe firearms because American like you owe guns.

Oh, you may say, "but, i am NOT a threat!" But then in your own words, "you don't know who will greet ya". And you are everybody else's "who will greet me?". So you are armed because of their arms, and they are armed because of your arms.

So all in all, American arm themselves because of armed American. And the more American arm themselves, the more American will have to worry about all those armed out there, thus they will keep arming themselves.



You have a citation for this interesting bit of data? I would really like to see a poll or something on reasons for owning a gun.


The whole point being that weapons for self defense trigger the need to defend from weapons just flew over your head, right?



I guess it did considering the only just over 30% of our nation owns a firearm meaning that an awful lot of people appear to be failing to get on the defense train. Of course this doesn't even include the fact that many of us have already stated what we use our weapons for in another thread, which did not even include this self defense that every one claims. But what would I, a gun owner, know compared to somebody on the other side of the world right? Right?

Thank you for your lack of sources.


Doh, it's tough to get through certain skulls...

ANY NUMBER of people who arm themselves for self-defense from armed foreigners become armed foreigners and thus a reason why ANY NUMBER of people will arm themselves for self-defense, thus feeding back a vicious circle.

It doesn't matters the number: becoming armed because of armed people is going to trigger the appearence of more armed people to arm against

Then it comes the point in which a certain share of armed people will be mass killers and a certain share of weapons will be used for crime.

For instace sake: If the chances of a firearm owner becoming a mass killer in country X where 1 in 50 million per year, then a country X with 50 million firearm owners would experience 1 mass killing per year, whereas country Y with 10 millon firearm owners would experience it each 5 years.



I'm not reading that. Dear God if you are ever on a sinking ship and try these mental dynamics on the lifeboat they'll use you for a sea anchor.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#223 - 2012-07-25 08:24:08 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I think that you're missing the point here.

Why owe a gun?

Self defense.

Self defense from what threat?

Any.

But, what's the most common threat around?

People who owe firearms.

But, what people?

ANY people. Everyone can owe a firearm and you never know who you're gonna meet.

So the reason why you need a weapon it's the American like you, who owe firearms because American like you owe guns.

Oh, you may say, "but, i am NOT a threat!" But then in your own words, "you don't know who will greet ya". And you are everybody else's "who will greet me?". So you are armed because of their arms, and they are armed because of your arms.

So all in all, American arm themselves because of armed American. And the more American arm themselves, the more American will have to worry about all those armed out there, thus they will keep arming themselves.



You have a citation for this interesting bit of data? I would really like to see a poll or something on reasons for owning a gun.


The whole point being that weapons for self defense trigger the need to defend from weapons just flew over your head, right?



I guess it did considering the only just over 30% of our nation owns a firearm meaning that an awful lot of people appear to be failing to get on the defense train. Of course this doesn't even include the fact that many of us have already stated what we use our weapons for in another thread, which did not even include this self defense that every one claims. But what would I, a gun owner, know compared to somebody on the other side of the world right? Right?

Thank you for your lack of sources.


Doh, it's tough to get through certain skulls...

ANY NUMBER of people who arm themselves for self-defense from armed foreigners become armed foreigners and thus a reason why ANY NUMBER of people will arm themselves for self-defense, thus feeding back a vicious circle.

It doesn't matters the number: becoming armed because of armed people is going to trigger the appearence of more armed people to arm against

Then it comes the point in which a certain share of armed people will be mass killers and a certain share of weapons will be used for crime.

For instace sake: If the chances of a firearm owner becoming a mass killer in country X where 1 in 50 million per year, then a country X with 50 million firearm owners would experience 1 mass killing per year, whereas country Y with 10 millon firearm owners would experience it each 5 years.


Wut?

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#224 - 2012-07-25 13:14:56 UTC
...and this is why I don't debate on this issue.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#225 - 2012-07-25 13:29:44 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:

You have a citation for this interesting bit of data? I would really like to see a poll or something on reasons for owning a gun.


I would just like to see how many are owning a gun because they want to shoot someone.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#226 - 2012-07-25 13:43:57 UTC
dexington wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:

You have a citation for this interesting bit of data? I would really like to see a poll or something on reasons for owning a gun.


I would just like to see how many are owning a gun because they want to shoot someone.




No kidding. I know that's something I don't need on my conscious for the rest of my life.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#227 - 2012-07-25 13:45:26 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

-----> arm themselves for self-defense <-----


This is the part where you keep failing. You keep assuming people armed themselves for self defense. That is *not* the primary reason. I'll give you some hints:

- The US has one of the best (if not *the best*) wildlife conservation programs.
- Wildlife conservation programs are funded by taxes from firearms and ammunition sales.
- The government doesn't directly control heard population levels, instead they set season and bag limits.
- Venison is good.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#228 - 2012-07-25 13:58:19 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

-----> arm themselves for self-defense <-----


This is the part where you keep failing. You keep assuming people armed themselves for self defense. That is *not* the primary reason. I'll give you some hints:

- The US has one of the best (if not *the best*) wildlife conservation programs.
- Wildlife conservation programs are funded by taxes from firearms and ammunition sales.
- The government doesn't directly control heard population levels, instead they set season and bag limits.
- Venison is good.


Why are you talking about hunting weapons now? Your point was that not being allowed to have weapons for self-defense is bad, and i've been talking against that since my first answer to you.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Overseer Aliena
Lord of Wars
#229 - 2012-07-25 13:58:50 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
...and this is why I don't debate on this issue.



That's good. Accepting your flaws is a major step to becoming a better person.
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#230 - 2012-07-25 13:59:45 UTC
Here's another tip as per why people arm themselves around these parts. Lets start with a little history:

"Pigs were first introduced in the 1500’s to what is now the southeastern U.S. by Spanish Explorer, Hernando DeSoto. In the centuries following European exploration and colonization of the eastern U.S., free-range livestock management practices and escapes from enclosures resulted in the establishment of wild pig populations and promoted their spread" ~ Linky

- There's no set hunting season on pigs in Florida. You can hunt them all year round.
- Pigs are an invasive species and we want to get rid of them.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#231 - 2012-07-25 14:01:22 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Here's another tip as per why people arm themselves around these parts. Lets start with a little history:

"Pigs were first introduced in the 1500’s to what is now the southeastern U.S. by Spanish Explorer, Hernando DeSoto. In the centuries following European exploration and colonization of the eastern U.S., free-range livestock management practices and escapes from enclosures resulted in the establishment of wild pig populations and promoted their spread" ~ Linky

- There's no set hunting season on pigs in Florida. You can hunt them all year round.
- Pigs are an invasive species and we want to get rid of them.



We have to do the same thing with the coyotes up here. In small groups they aren't so bad, in larger numbers they start getting really confident.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#232 - 2012-07-25 14:03:23 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Why are you talking about hunting weapons now? Your point was that not being allowed to have weapons for self-defense is bad, and i've been talking against that since my first answer to you.


My point has always been that more weapons = less crime. That's my opinion and I'm not changing it. But you keep saying that Americans arm themselves to protect themselves from other armed Americans and that's not true. Most arm themselves for hunting or just for practice shooting sports.

Still, regardless of why people arm themselves, the end result is lots of people with guns. Which in my opinion, results in reduced crime as criminals think twice before messing around with those who have guns.

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#233 - 2012-07-25 14:10:57 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Here's another tip as per why people arm themselves around these parts. Lets start with a little history:

"Pigs were first introduced in the 1500’s to what is now the southeastern U.S. by Spanish Explorer, Hernando DeSoto. In the centuries following European exploration and colonization of the eastern U.S., free-range livestock management practices and escapes from enclosures resulted in the establishment of wild pig populations and promoted their spread" ~ Linky

- There's no set hunting season on pigs in Florida. You can hunt them all year round.
- Pigs are an invasive species and we want to get rid of them.



We have to do the same thing with the coyotes up here. In small groups they aren't so bad, in larger numbers they start getting really confident.


The only hand-gun I own (I mostly have rifles) is a "Ruger LCP - Coyote Special". The story goes that Texas Gov. Rick Perry was peacefully walking on a trail with his son and the family dog when a coyote tried to gank them. The dog tried to defend the group but governor notice that the dog had no tank nor enough dps. So he added some DPS with his "Ruger LCP". Because it was the governor, it made the news, Ruger noticed and created the "Coyote Special Edition".

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#234 - 2012-07-25 16:06:35 UTC
I would not put it past the same government that shipped 40000 guns to Mexico to blame the second amendment to pull this attack. Too many unanswered questions.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jim Era
#235 - 2012-07-25 16:26:24 UTC
Wait lol...did you just link fox news?
ahahahaha
ahaha
ahhhhhhaaaa

ha
hehe
lol
LOL

nothing more

Wat™
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#236 - 2012-07-25 17:00:37 UTC
Jim Era wrote:
Wait lol...did you just link fox news?
ahahahaha
ahaha
ahhhhhhaaaa

ha
hehe
lol
LOL

nothing more




Well, Bill Krisol (neocon) was on Fox cable calling for a ban on semi-automatic guns, and so any "conservatism" left at Fox is history now that Rupert Murdoch can easily be arrested over the phone hacking.

Reality Check comes from a local affiliate. You should check the history of that show and it's popularity before you go off like some kid with Fragile X syndrome.


There's a lot more than you can handle. Stay here though, you'll be safer.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jim Era
#237 - 2012-07-25 17:15:02 UTC
Sorry let me rephrase

LOL wait did you just link any news company

ahahah
lolehehehe'
hahahhhhha

Wat™
Antagonisten
Nisuwa Logistics
#238 - 2012-07-25 17:31:11 UTC
Ah, America. Birthplace of RLFPS.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#239 - 2012-07-25 19:57:59 UTC
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Why are you talking about hunting weapons now? Your point was that not being allowed to have weapons for self-defense is bad, and i've been talking against that since my first answer to you.


My point has always been that more weapons = less crime. That's my opinion and I'm not changing it. But you keep saying that Americans arm themselves to protect themselves from other armed Americans and that's not true. Most arm themselves for hunting or just for practice shooting sports.

Still, regardless of why people arm themselves, the end result is lots of people with guns. Which in my opinion, results in reduced crime as criminals think twice before messing around with those who have guns.


Reduced crime? Except that your fellows got 7x more chances to be murdered than mine.

Actually, their chances to be shot dead are 4x our chances to be murdered at all...

Anyway, as i stated already, American people want it this way, so, who am I/are we to judge?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#240 - 2012-07-25 21:03:58 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Reduced crime? Except that your fellows got 7x more chances to be murdered than mine.

Actually, their chances to be shot dead are 4x our chances to be murdered at all...

Anyway, as i stated already, American people want it this way, so, who am I/are we to judge?


Give it some time. It was already stated that your country has a huge drug trafficking problem. And from your comments it seems you guys don't have a problem with it. Well, let me tell you what's gonna happen in the future if you don't fix that issue right now:

1) Traffickers will get greedy and start taking down other traffickers to get a bigger piece of the pie for themselves.

2) They soon realize that the trafficker with most guns usually wins.

3) They'll also realize that the same smuggling apparatus use to smuggle drugs, could very well be used to smuggle guns.

4) Those in the trafficker's payroll learn that guns are an excellent crime tool.

5) Ex traffickers looking for alternative methods of income, start using the guns to rob people.

6) Law abiding citizens who have no guns become prey.

If you don't believe it you can check the crime stats of every country that has a drug trafficking problem. Even the US some 50 years ago, was a lot more peaceful that it is now. Ask somebody from Colombia, or Mexico, or Puerto Rico... same story over and over again.

If you take guns away from law abiding citizens is the US, you gonna disarm the victims-to-be. You won't disarm the criminals. The only thing keeping criminals from busting trough these nice glass windows of mine is the possibility that I might be packing. It's called deterrence. And it works very well.

But I don't have to keep my examples to home-security. We could use something else like, border crossing between nations. Imagine you were forced to cross a border and you are given 2 choices. You could even cross from Mexico to US, or you could try crossing from Cuba to Guantanamo. Which one would you choose and why?


"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"